Dunhill in the UK

[warren]

Not taking issue with any poster but, the Dunhill branched out into tobacco after manufacturing leather goods (saddles and such) then car accessories back in the early 1800s.
"My experience in the motorists' trade has convinced me that, if one can exactly meet the desires of a good class of public, time alone is necessary to make it profitable. Compared with quality, price is relatively important." Alfred Dunhill, Wikipedia, emphasis mine.
Alfred geared his products to a certain class of people from the start. Alfred Dunhill, Ltd. simply moved back towards it's roots when it sold off the tobacco products and made the "d" lower case to further separate Alfred Dunhill Ltd. products from the Dunhill tobacco marque.

 

[sablebrush52]

I do not know about all the scuddle butt regarding Dunhill . But i did hear that they are no longer going to be making the Elizabethan blend.

About a year or so ago, BAT - British American Tobacco, the owners of the Dunhill tobacco products, made an announcement in the tobacco industry trade publications that they were discontinuing manufacture of Dunhill branded pipe tobaccos - all of them not some of them - though they would continue to manufacture and distribute Dunhill branded cigarettes. A representative from Dunhill's US distributor, Lane Ltd., followed this up with a posting on PM confirming this. The reason for discontinuing the pipe tobaccos was simple economics. The tobaccos didn't produce a revenue stream sufficient to justify their continued production.
Conspiracy theorists are sure that dark forces are at work here and that BAT is leaving millions on the table and are clearly lying about their reason for bumping off the blends. Others going through denial are sure that BAT will sell it's rights to some other party who will jump at the chance to go through the trouble to distribute these unprofitable blends as a public service.
Any way one chooses to go, the only thing we have is BAT's clear unequivocal and concise public statement that they will no longer produce and distribute Dunhill pipe tobaccos, and Lane Ltd's confirmation statement.

 

[beefeater33]

Count me in as one of the conspiracy theorists. I don't think the blends are going away. Nothing like a good rumour to stir up sales. This same thing happened 10 years ago. Yes there may be a period when dunhill blends are not available, but it won't last too long........... all just MY opinion of course........... ::
Here's just one of the "chicken little" posts from ten years ago, there are many more,....... eerily similar to the posts of today........ one of the oldest plays in the book for marketing.
http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/general-pipe-forum/62874-no-more-dunhill-tobacco.html

 

[woodsroad]

I would think the thing that makes the most sense is for senior managers and employees would be looking for an investor to continue the products and their careers. It's not hard to imagine there being one or more wealthy Dunhill fanboys who could throw enough enough money in to keep operations going so they would have a source for their pipes and tobacco.

BAT licenses the pipe tobacco part of their business to STG. They have no employees, senior managers, etc.in the pipe tobacco business. They probably have one product manager, that's it.
There simply isn't enough volume in pipe tobacco to make it worthwhile for them to continue managing the licensing. As a principal in a small company that operates in a similar manner to BAT's Dunhill pipe tobacco brands, I can tell you that the income from such an operation is much, much lower than you probably think.

 

[sablebrush52]

Here's just one of the "chicken little" posts from ten years ago, there are many more,....... eerily similar to the posts of today........ one of the oldest plays in the book for marketing.

That thread is a classic of its kind. My mother's mah jong girls would have been proud, especially the opening statement, supposedly from a dealer, which also says that Deluxe Navy Rolls are what was formerly known as Escudo. Then the thread continues in an amusing way with everyone contributing what they don't know, but maybe guess. This is essential pipe world discussion.
I think the difference here is that we have an actual announcement from BAT in an actual trade publication, followed up by an actual announcement from Dunhill's actual distributor, Lane Ltd. As for it being a manipulation to increase sales, I don't doubt that possibility for a nanosecond, but it's much more brilliant a move if it's true. You get 12 to 18 months of panic buying, during which time you unload a huge amount of slow moving product, and then get out with the money in your pocket.
No more sitting on inventory that will have to be relabeled to meet new guidelines. No jumping through a variety of regulatory hoops to sell to different markets. No more sitting on a pile of slow moving stock when the furor has died down and there are no sales because everyone who cares has already stocked up. Nope. Nothing about this being a dodge suggests that the blends will be around. Quite the opposite. All that said, I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I suppose you're right about the pipes and tobacco being rather insignificant to Dunhill. If they sell 2,000 pipes per year at their price of $150 each, that is still only $300,000. Even if the net profit is 20%, that's $60,000. So to a company of any significant size, is irrelevant. And if that business were causing image problems, easy decision to close it. My company isn't anywhere near as big as Dunhill but if I had a product or service that was negatively impacting my core business and only producing that kind of revenue and profits, it would close or be discontinued immediately.

 

[woodsroad]

" Even if the net profit is 20%, that's $60,000."
Which is exactly what they are probably paying their White Spot Product Manager. Now, that guy also fetches coffee for the board meetings, so he has some value to the organization outside of pipes and tobacco, but....

 

[3rdguy]

Would not surprise me in the least if nothing changes.

 

[mso489]

Whatever happens, I don't think this is going to be straightforward. The announcement sounded a little preemptory. Now what? Who knows?

 

[warren]

This is a fun topic to circle around over and over, some in angst and others pragmatic. The simple fact being no one of us can change BAT's decision. Even as a group we are simply too small to have a significant impact on BAT's profit/loss.
Sable's take is a wrinkle not formerly offered and makes great sense as a marketing ploy to rid the shelves of poorly performing product, salvaging some return on investment.
Those who choose to believe the manufacturer, BAT, do in fact, know what is next. Soon, Dunhill blends will be but a memory to most. For those who chose to stock up, the loss will be a time to crow about their foresight, bragging on the "What are you smoking" thread when they pop of tin of Elizabethian or some such in the future. Me? I'll simply find another blend or two to fill the void or ... otherwise adjust to the change.
Should BAT decide not to discontinue the brand, many of us can simply rejoice. But, I think straightforward is exactly what is happening at BAT. It's us that are twisting ourselves in knots, ignoring the economic facts, wringing our collective hands, trying to unbunch our panties, who have made the subject much more convoluted than it is.
But, we are having a great time and, on the site, that is what matters. "Profundity" is my middle name. Or ... is it "Pomposity"?

 

[cigrmaster]

warren, I choose to believe that BAT is going to stop making Dunhill tobacco and that all of my 2012 tins will become gold. I will grab them altogether put them on my bed and roll naked around in them. I will be sure to take pics so you guys can see me in all of my Dunhill glory.

 

[sablebrush52]

Here's one more for consideration. STG offered to buy the blends so as to be able to continue making them and were turned down. Better go out and buy while you can. Next.

 

[unkleyoda]

I will grab them altogether put them on my bed and roll naked around in them. I will be sure to take pics so you guys can see me in all of my Dunhill glory.

 

[prairiedruid]

I will grab them altogether put them on my bed and roll naked around in them. I will be sure to take pics so you guys can see me in all of my Dunhill glory.

Paraphrasing an old joke:
Is that a tin of Elizabethan in the crack of your ass or are you just really shocked to see me?

 

[cigrmaster]

C'mon guys, you know you really want to see this.

 

[jvnshr]

I filled the form on BAT website and asked the question:
"Are Dunhill pipe tobacco blends going to be discontinued?"
After few hours I received an email from Customer Service Department of BAT UK office asking me to contact Dunhill of London Tobacco (a mail address and a phone number had been provided). I called the phone number, explained the situation and the guy on the phone told me this:
"There is no official information yet. We haven't been told anything officially. We don't know whether BAT or any other company is going to continue manufacturing the blends. But I think they are going to be discontinued". I asked whether there was any specific deadline or not. He said "As I have told you, we have no official information available yet".
We don't know whether BAT or any other company is going to continue manufacturing the blends. I know, this one was very interesting, but he was a kind guy trying to explain everything like a gentleman, so I didn't want to look like a furious journalist and didn't ask anything further.

 

[3rdguy]

Did you say the interwebs have already determined the blends will be discontinued?

 

[unkleyoda]

I filled the form on BAT website and asked the question:
"Are Dunhill pipe tobacco blends going to be discontinued?"
After few hours I received an email from Customer Service Department of BAT UK office asking me to contact Dunhill of London Tobacco (a mail address and a phone number had been provided). I called the phone number, explained the situation and the guy on the phone told me this:
"There is no official information yet. We haven't been told anything officially. We don't know whether BAT or any other company is going to continue manufacturing the blends. But I think they are going to be discontinued". I asked whether there was any specific deadline or not. He said "As I have told you, we have no official information available yet".
We don't know whether BAT or any other company is going to continue manufacturing the blends. I know, this one was very interesting, but he was a kind guy trying to explain everything like a gentleman, so I didn't want to look like a furious journalist and didn't ask anything further.

The cloak and dagger is interesting. I remember a thread (I suck at searching this forum, so I won't) last summer, about 'The Dunhill Demise'. In the thread there was a guy that went to Dunhill in London and asked about the rumors. He said that the salesperson, said he couldn't say anything about it. He went on to say that the salesperson seemed like he wanted to say something, but couldn't. He speculated that there was a buyout coming. Again all speculation.

 

[pipebuddy]

This whole thing is starting to feel like BAT is pulling some marketing horseplay on us. To jack up their sales, of course.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Sablebrush wrote a learned post on just that.
Note: The Dunhill shop in London doesn't even sell tobacco!