Well that would suck if whats left on the shelves is it. Just seems kind of strange that everyone is managing to keep it a secret.
Deeming Day?
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Over the past three decades I've seen several bombs dropped like that. Its why I started putting away tobacco before I even heard the term "cellaring".
As I recall, the original deeming date was August 8 2018, but it got pushed back three years because the FDA was doing some studies. I wasn't aware that the date had been moved up to 9/9/2020. I wonder if this affected the extension date of 8/8/2022 for blends going through the Deeming process.This was the original date set by the FDA. However, some of the do gooder organizations took them to court, complaining this was too long. The court agreed. The deeming date was then set at September 9, 2020.
Submit Tobacco Product Applications for Deemed Tobacco Products
Resources for Applicants Required to Submit by September 9, 2020www.fda.gov
If they have completed one of the deeming processes then they would be allowed to continue to be sold.
The short answer is yes, sorta. A law was going to get done, so Big Tobacco got involved in the process. They have the deep pockets to absorb the more expensive form of Deeming. Small vaping companies don't. So this allowed BT to wipe out the competition for the vaping market.
Pipe tobacco became collateral damage. We're such a niche market that we've had little direct representation in the legal process, instead, riding on the coat tails of the cigar industry.
If you look back at what was going on with additives to blends in the 19th and early 20th centuries you would be shocked and perhaps horrified. All manner of crap, some of it toxic, was added into tobacco blends. Warhorse bar had belladonna in it to give it that extra kick that would send you spinning. Regulation is a necessity because not everyone is remotely trustworthy. But regulation that defines a briar pipe as a "tobacco" product is an absurdity.
A lot of people knew about it. I got a number of phone calls, months in advance of the closure, to alert me to what was happening.
The word was spread very quietly so that regular customers of McClelland blends would be able to stock up before the speculators and looters descended and wiped out all of it. We knew, but we didn't talk about it for that reason. By the time the fecal matter hit the spinning blades, and the hoard of looters descended, McClelland's regular customers had stocked up.
I can always count on you for a level-headed explanation of a variety of things on here, and always sans sensationalism. Much appreciated!
I had been a regular customer and stocked up as a regular habit even with chiding from the McClelland haters, but knew nothing about it.
A lot of blends have quietly gone away so that production of better selling blends can be increased.
Well, I guess you weren't one of the cool kids.
I knew when the final shipments were going to go out and what was in them. I knew a few people who were desperate to get some more tins of a favored blend and was able to tell them when to watch for it to appear, enabling them to stock up for one last time.
I liked McClelland's reds and their Grand Orientals, but I wasn't a big consumer. So I picked up a few tins of this and that for my personal use. Every once in a while I open a tin. Three years later, I still have most of it. When it's gone, it''s gone.
McClelland wasn't loved by everybody. Their tobaccos weren't a hot topic on this forum, for the most part, until after they announced that they were closing up shop. Suddenly everyone was shocked and in mourning. I guess nobody appreciates you until you're gone.
But without the Deeming I assume we had regulations regarding this. I mean no one ls allowed to put poison into Pipe Tobacco or Vape Liquids and if they were they would be stopped immediately. But Cigarette companies are allowed to put poisons into their tobaccos and this will not change that - it will only make it so Pipe Tobaccos and Vape Liquids are less available due to the costs of testing for these smaller companies putting them out of business and/or making it less likely new blends will be created. . It is the hypocrisy that is galling.
Considering the W.H.O. is pushing for no tobacco by 2030, I figured it was just a move towards that. Either way, August 8th is quickly approaching. I guess we'll see what happens.
Read the second paragraph of this for the history.
Deeming Rule Litigation
ACS CAN and other public health advocates celebrated a huge victory in the war against electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) on May 16.
”Deeming process” doesn’t register with me since there seem to be multiple paths to keep products on the market legally after 9/9/20. They each have their own deadlines, quirks, and variable transparency.
August 8 2021 is a totally meaningless date. Unless it is your birthday or something.
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While wanting to understand what the heck is happening to blends in the market is 100% understandable from a buyer standpoint (us).....what's to gain from a business/supply chain perspective is a bit more murky.
I'd bet, first and foremost, that the exact enforcement/regulatory picture is still somewhat hazy for the industry.....so it opens up the can of worms of communicating something that may not be true a week or a month down the line. Beyond that......from a manufacturers perspective they aren't sitting on any stocks of inventory.....it's all sold to distributors. From a distributor standpoint....from what we read/hear online in various comments.....sales have been increasing the last few years in fairly significant numbers. Whether you announce blend discontinuation early or not....you are going to sell the inventory. It would be one thing if sales were soft and this was an opportunity to move stock that may sit for years.....but it will sell whether they announce now or at some 'official' deeming date. So from a distributor perspective.....If you know your eventual discontinued stock will get sold without issue.....is it more worthwhile to encourage a mass surge of stock runs, probably creating a frenzy with your customer base and spiking your labor/shipping for a few months.....or just walk it down to the official regulatory date and let the chips fall then.
I'd also say the Cool Kidz grapevine on what is getting cut/wound-down is already in gear. It's a small world around pipe tobacco and word is getting out. It just doesn't make it to the general public level of the message boards because that would ruin the upcoming humble-brag deluge of who knew what ahead of time.......and at its core the majority of pipe tobacco message-board content is a humble-brag competition in some shape or form
Oh, yeah, I don't agree with their execution because it became a huge blanket umbrella approach with extremely broad terms. I just agree with manufacturers having to submit their ingredients for regulation as probably being a good thing for the reasons mentioned. Historically and currently, people have put some crazy stuff into various tobacco products. I'm not against keeping that in check. Sometimes "Artisan" is a mistaken term for "amateur" and there are repercussions for that misidentification.
Quiet a bit of that has been happening. You could put whatever you wanted into your blends and it's been acknowledged over the years from pipe tobacco manufacturers. I don't follow vape all that much, but I believe a lot of this was triggered because they were doing whatever they wanted and causing illness or worse. It set off a frenzy.
Well, surprise, surprise. The page I thought I was linking people to was not the page that I thought I was linking people to. So here it is:
www.fda.gov
FDA Center for Tobacco Products Commonly Asked Questions
Commonly asked questions about CTP and FDA's new regulations for e-cigarettes, cigars, and all other tobacco products.
Bullshit.
Social connections happen everywhere, at home, at work, at school, at church, everywhere. Those connections lead to more access to information. That's reality.
With regard specifically to the McClelland closing leakage, as I've been told, that went through their distributorship for the reasons cited. Clearly all these people did a pretty good job of being discreet. People knew about the closing for months before I was informed about it. Best kept worst kept secret in the tobacco world at that time.
And yeah, I used that info to help some people out. And if that's a problem, it's your problem, not mine.
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