Decades-Old Tobacco: Magical Elixir, or Zombie Dust?

[solideogloria86]

Here's my limited personal experience.

Dan tobacco Limerick from 1999.

Opened around 2018-19. Jarred

Smoked occasionally and gifted samples.

Last bowl smoked this summer before giving the remainder to a friend.

Every bowl incredible.

C&D Kajun Kake from 2008

Opened 2018. Jarred

Special occasion smoke. Once or twice a year.

Every bowl excellent until summer 2020. It went ashy and harsh out of the blue. Never came back no matter what I tried.

There's a longer list of 10 or so year old tins with no adverse effects. Those are the two most prominent in my mind.

Who really knows. I think it depends on the blend.

 

[romeowood]

[A]necdotal statements about tins which have been aged for several decades or more going flat in short order after opening them. If that's the case, obviously it is an important factor in cellaring considerations. If a 2 oz. tin is only going to deliver a great smoke for a week or two after opening, and then promptly go flat, that would be troubling for someone like me who routinely takes months to smoke a tin.

Anecdotal reporting is all you'll be able to get for a niche case scenario like this, so I'll throw my two cents' in. I have cellared extensively, both new production tins with ageing in mind as well as 'vintage' pickups of blends that have (again, anecdotally) proven their longevity--think Escudo, some Dunhills, some C&D, GLP, etc. Since generalities are the best we'll be able to work with, stick with these as rules of thumb: Virginias tend to have the longest legs when ageing, burleys less so, and condimental tobaccos a distant third. Integrity of the seal on tins is obviously important; pull-tops in my cellar have occasionally threatened to burst (look to an upcoming review of C&D Sunday Picnic for more on this), 'shoepolish' tins can get dinged out of shape, and even old cutter tops can develop microscopic holes, often in the welded seams. All that is to say, maintaining storage conditions is pretty important if you intend to age. Never had a mason jar fail, but have had some blends mold in the jar--sterilization protocols to blame, of course.
The heart of your question is really "How long will the flavor of a vintage blend last once opened?", and much like vintage wines, the answer is "not nearly as long as it took to develop that flavor". If you're a light smoker that takes months to smoke through a tin, then you probably won't reap the full benefit of that ageing beyond your first couple smokes, for the most part. The advice to enjoy a well-aged tin with friends is spot on--particularly with a tin of spectacular age, like a 50-year old Escudo. What you can do--with the proviso that you alone will be able to judge the results--is transfer to a jar immediately after opening to somewhat prolong the time that a vintage tin is viable; this will of course vary not only from blend to blend but tin to tin. I do it regularly, and if I notice that a blend seems like it's declining rapidly after decanting, I make the effort to smoke it faster or find someone to share it with.
The beauty of having a thing like this--a tobacco, or a wine, or a cheese, or a jar of pickles--with advanced age, is that ephemeral experience that is unable to be replicated in any other way, and never to be had again in quite the same way, of course. Remember always, savor your time.

 

[JOHN72]

Maybe a vacuum sealed and a constant temperature.With a good percentage of humidity. Like wine that is kept in caves, for example. I mean no oxygen, and a constant cooler temperature. I still think that glass is better than a tin. But all this is conjecture nothing more. My cellar only has fresh tobacco. In any case, the social and economic balance on the planet is more fragile than a bee's fart. Just enjoy smoking and shit quietly eyeing the iPhone..............or the supermarket offers

 

[lawdawg]

like I said, I just don't have your optimism.

It's certainly possible that smoking could disappear, with pipe smoking perhaps being most at risk for extinction. It's just pleasant for me as a guy in my 30's to feel optimistic about future availability because smoking only 40 year old blends in my 70's is probably not gonna be all that practical.

Admittedly, I'm biased.

Also, I really do think that eradicating smoking in its entirety will never happen, but that's besides the point.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Also, I really do think that eradicating smoking in its entirety will never happen, but that's besides the point.

Of course not. There will always be seeds. I just don't think that you'll be able to pull up to a service station, get some Uranium for your spaceship and a pack of Benson and Hedges.

 

[lawdawg]

Anecdotal reporting is all you'll be able to get for a niche case scenario like this, so I'll throw my two cents' in. I have cellared extensively, both new production tins with ageing in mind as well as 'vintage' pickups of blends that have (again, anecdotally) proven their longevity--think Escudo, some Dunhills, some C&D, GLP, etc. Since generalities are the best we'll be able to work with, stick with these as rules of thumb: Virginias tend to have the longest legs when ageing, burleys less so, and condimental tobaccos a distant third. Integrity of the seal on tins is obviously important; pull-tops in my cellar have occasionally threatened to burst (look to an upcoming review of C&D Sunday Picnic for more on this), 'shoepolish' tins can get dinged out of shape, and even old cutter tops can develop microscopic holes, often in the welded seams. All that is to say, maintaining storage conditions is pretty important if you intend to age. Never had a mason jar fail, but have had some blends mold in the jar--sterilization protocols to blame, of course.
The heart of your question is really "How long will the flavor of a vintage blend last once opened?", and much like vintage wines, the answer is "not nearly as long as it took to develop that flavor". If you're a light smoker that takes months to smoke through a tin, then you probably won't reap the full benefit of that ageing beyond your first couple smokes, for the most part. The advice to enjoy a well-aged tin with friends is spot on--particularly with a tin of spectacular age, like a 50-year old Escudo. What you can do--with the proviso that you alone will be able to judge the results--is transfer to a jar immediately after opening to somewhat prolong the time that a vintage tin is viable; this will of course vary not only from blend to blend but tin to tin. I do it regularly, and if I notice that a blend seems like it's declining rapidly after decanting, I make the effort to smoke it faster or find someone to share it with.
The beauty of having a thing like this--a tobacco, or a wine, or a cheese, or a jar of pickles--with advanced age, is that ephemeral experience that is unable to be replicated in any other way, and never to be had again in quite the same way, of course. Remember always, savor your time.

Thank you for sharing your experience on the cellaring issue. I enjoyed the story from your link on the 50-year old tin of Escudo.

Nah nah-nah nah-nah nah! Haha

 

[pipestud]

Thank you. That's exactly the type of experience I'm looking for here. A lot of smokers are cellaring with the idea of smoking it themselves decades down the line. If a tin is quite likely to turn to shitdust in short order after opening, then that is certainly a consideration.

Of course even if we assume that all tins more than 20 years old will go the way of the dinosaur shortly after opening, they will still make great trade fodder if the tin is a widely-appreciated blend. I'm not trying to say we shouldn't cellar, but only that we need to make informed decisions about these things.

Lawdawg, whenever I respond to questions about aged tobacco, I am darned if I do and darned if I don't. I sell aged tobacco on a website that I have set up to make money (have been for over 20-years), so naturally I am partial to what I believe to be hugely enhanced pipe tobaccos through the aging process. Blenders G.L. Pease, Mike McNiel, Russ Oulette, etc, also extoll the virtues of aged tobacco - and I'm talking tobacco well over 20 years of age. All I can tell you is that I sell about 200 tins of aged tobacco each week and the buyers (it is a worldwide market), empty the cyber shelves in minutes. So, all I can offer is that from my own experience, well aged tobacco - and I'm talking 20 years and way more - once opened and exposed to the elements, doesn't turn to *@&#%dust any faster than a fresh tin. If that were so, why have literally many hundreds of people all over the world paid good money for older tins on a weekly basis?

Yes, a rogue tin will pop up from time to time and not be worth a hoot, but by a preponderance of the evidence that I have accumulated over the years from my own experience and the experience of hundreds of other people, well aged tobacco usually - but not always - makes for a markedly increased flavor presentation than a fresh tin - and has staying power after opening and doesn't die a quick death.

Again, just my own thoughts from personal experience and I am not slamming anyone for thinking otherwise.

Steve

 

[lawdawg]

Lawdawg, whenever I respond to questions about aged tobacco, I am darned if I do and darned if I don't. I sell aged tobacco on a website that I have set up to make money (have been for over 20-years), so naturally I am partial to what I believe to be hugely enhanced pipe tobaccos through the aging process. Blenders G.L. Pease, Mike McNiel, Russ Oulette, etc, also extoll the virtues of aged tobacco - and I'm talking tobacco well over 20 years of age. All I can tell you is that I sell about 200 tins of aged tobacco each week and the buyers (it is a worldwide market), empty the cyber shelves in minutes. So, all I can offer is that from my own experience, well aged tobacco - and I'm talking 20 years and way more - once opened and exposed to the elements, doesn't turn to *@&#%dust any faster than a fresh tin. If that were so, why have literally many hundreds of people all over the world paid good money for older tins on a weekly basis?

Yes, a rogue tin will pop up from time to time and not be worth a hoot, but by a preponderance of the evidence that I have accumulated over the years from my own experience and the experience of hundreds of other people, well aged tobacco usually - but not always - makes for a markedly increased flavor presentation than a fresh tin - and has staying power after opening and doesn't die a quick death.

Again, just my own thoughts from personal experience and I am not slamming anyone for thinking otherwise.

Steve

Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate the quality of the input we so frequently get on this forum. Perks of the pipe community being rather small I suppose.

Even assuming that the "rapid aging" thing is true, and that once you open a decades old tin it rapidly deteriorates, it would be just the same as long-aged wines. Even so, collectors still pay top dollar for these wines, even though they must be consumed within a very short time after opening. If that's also the case with tobacco, then I do not think it would take anything away from the value of those old blends, but would only require that we reconsider exactly how we view them and what role they play in pipe smoking decades down the road.

 

[pipestud]

Again Lawdawg, I've opened a slew of decades old tobacco as have literally hundreds of customers over the years, and the thought that older tins of tobacco go south quickly is not what has been my own experience or the experience of the majority of those who have taken the time to tell me their thoughts. Again, I am only reporting my own experience and the experiences of the majority of those who have conversed with me over the last couple of decades. I am sure that that some - as have I - had disappointing results, but that has not been the norm. That is why I chimed in on this discussion.

 

[sandollars]

I have many old tins. Old, as in 10-20 years. When I open one it usually takes me a couple of months to consume it.
To minimize degradation, I transfer said tobacco to the smallest jar in which it will fit and use a Foodsaver Mason jar sealer (see below). I store these sealed jars in a small alcohol (think college dorm room cheap, pick it up for 30 bucks at Walmart cheap) refrigerator at 55-60 degrees.
I have been very happy with the results. The 20 year old stuff tastes nearly the same at the end as the day I opened it.

 

[sandollars]

Frankly, I don't know why ^^ sealer is not a staple used by all of us... I do this with my bulks too.. It speeds up the anaerobic process. Well, at least in my head it does...

 

[tfdickson]

I have smoked many 20-25 year old VA and VaPer blends and have never had a problem with the tobacco going south after I open the tin. I immediately transfer it to a jar and try to be quick about opening and closing the jar when I dip back into it, maybe that helps a bit. Usually it takes me several months to go through the tin as I only smoke one or two bowls a day and I like to smoke a wide variety of blends rather than stick to just one, even if it is something special.

 

[hawky454]

I personally find the reverse to be true, in my experience, I'm usually disappointed when I smoke aged tobacco immediately after opening the tin, it needs to time to breathe. I think that it gets better within a week or two after I've opened the tin.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

Again Lawdawg, I've opened a slew of decades old tobacco as have literally hundreds of customers over the years, and the thought that older tins of tobacco go south quickly is not what has been my own experience or the experience of the majority of those who have taken the time to tell me their thoughts. Again, I am only reporting my own experience and the experiences of the majority of those who have conversed with me over the last couple of decades. I am sure that that some - as have I - had disappointing results, but that has not been the norm. That is why I chimed in on this discussion.

So I've read every post in this thread and it's a good one, and tried to find some consistent answers by searching here and in general. So I've condensed my questions.

With new tobacco that I jar, if I'm thinking I want it to age should I break it into smaller jars and leave some and just forget them and open at appropriate dates I might want to try them and assume that after aging for 1, 2, 5 years once opened that aging process stops for good? Can't be resealed and age productively further?

With aged tobacco that I might purchase, I assume it may be best to just leave it in the sealed tin that it comes in? And once opened just expect to enjoy and it should be as good for a time, whatever that time is, but may "break down" in some way over some period of time?

Guess those are kind of general and lots of variables, but those are my basic questions. For example, Christmas Cheer gets a lot of good press but tough to come by. I decided to see what it is about. I bought some from a member that was aged for several years but had recently been opened and jarred (no issue there), but I should assume it is at this point to be consumed and not expect further benefit from letting it sit? Which is why I bought it. On the other hand, I bought some older from you that is still in the tin and leaving it there until I know for sure I want to take the plunge with it, whether this year or three years from now, is probably the best way to treat it?

Thanks to you or anyone else. Probably on the basic side of questions, but there I am, lol.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

I tend to be an optimist also. When I read cellaring I can't help of thinking "addiction buying" or the fear of being without an addictive drug. Since I was addicted for decades, I can speak from experience.

However, addictiive purchasing can include many consumables.

Buying in itself is definitely an addiction.
Before this summer I hadn't smoked in four years but I never stopped buying more pipes and tobacco.

 

[Worknman]

If oxygen does indeed cause an old tin to start degrading, then I'd imagine that immediately vacuum sealing it would greatly slow that process down.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I think I'll go with the voice of the greatest experience by far, @pipestud . Not to mention it matches my own limited experience.