Decades-Old Tobacco: Magical Elixir, or Zombie Dust?

[lawdawg]

Over the past years, we have reached a general consensus that cellaring is a good idea to hedge against future unavailability or price increases. It also seems to be agreed that aging tobacco, in the case of many blends, will improve the smoking experience.

However, I have also seen a lot of anecdotal statements about tins which have been aged for several decades or more going flat in short order after opening them. If that's the case, obviously it is an important factor in cellaring considerations. If a 2 oz. tin is only going to deliver a great smoke for a week or two after opening, and then promptly go flat, that would be troubling for someone like me who routinely takes months to smoke a tin.

Therefore, I am asking to hear first-hand accounts from people who have smoked decades-old tobacco and can answer from personal experience questions about how the contents of an old tin have fared after opening.

Please ruminate. Thank you.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I haven't had many decades of tobaccos to open but I have not had a problem with the ones I have. I'll worry about it in 15 to 20 years from now. No alternative but to do so.

 

[alaskanpiper]

I just opened an 11 year old tin of Penzance that was gifted to me by a very generous friend. It will take me at least 6 months to smoke through it, so I'll have some first hand experience with this scenario with at least one blend. What I can tell you, is that out of the tin, it is quite sublime after bowl 1.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have smoked many tins of aged tobaccos, and can attest that I have had many of them not only go flat, but turn to dust quickly. Not all, but the Virginias seem to be the worst. I call it shitdust. I'm talking over 20 years.
My pipeclub would buy from pipestud and other sources as a part of what the club was all about. Honestly, I would never buy one just for myself, because of this quick expiration. But real;ly, who in hell would buy a 20+ bottle of wine to drink themself? No one. These aged blends are to share, it's way better that way anyway.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

If you just want aged tobaccos, buy lots and pop tins as it ages, 1 year, 2 years, then 5 years, ten years, 15, and then at 20 you'll have some idea of whether it is going to last a lot longer. And, if it is starting to be all black and crumbly, smoke it faster. Nothing really to worry about, after 2 years, the aging slows down drastically. So, it's not going to shitdust on you over night.

 

[alaskanpiper]

who in hell would buy a 20+ bottle of wine to drink themself?

I would today. One of those days where I feel like running into the woods speaking in tongues and tearing my hair out. A 20 year old bottle of wine would either help a little or hurt a whole lot. I'm willing to take that risk.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I would today. One of those days where I feel like running into the woods speaking in tongues and tearing my hair out. A 20 year old bottle of wine would either help a little or hurt a whole lot. I'm willing to take that risk.

Keep in mind that wines loose most of their alcohol as they age. The alcohol molecules convert back to sugars, so you'd have to drink twice as much, ha ha. But, the flavor can become so much better. I set back dry whites that have been oaked heavily, these make the best aged wines. And, when I say dry, I mean brings a pucker. The shit that most vinters call dry is way sweeter than I like... mostly because they are trying to imitate aged wine.

But, if one only drinks aged wines and aged tobaccos of the finest... they'd become like McDonald's hamburgers to you. Frequency kills the what makes gourmet special.

 

[lawdawg]

I have smoked many tins of aged tobaccos, and can attest that I have had many of them not only go flat, but turn to dust quickly. Not all, but the Virginias seem to be the worst. I call it shitdust. I'm talking over 20 years.
My pipeclub would buy from pipestud and other sources as a part of what the club was all about. Honestly, I would never buy one just for myself, because of this quick expiration. But real;ly, who in hell would buy a 20+ bottle of wine to drink themself? No one. These aged blends are to share, it's way better that way anyway.

Thank you. That's exactly the type of experience I'm looking for here. A lot of smokers are cellaring with the idea of smoking it themselves decades down the line. If a tin is quite likely to turn to shitdust in short order after opening, then that is certainly a consideration.

Of course even if we assume that all tins more than 20 years old will go the way of the dinosaur shortly after opening, they will still make great trade fodder if the tin is a widely-appreciated blend. I'm not trying to say we shouldn't cellar, but only that we need to make informed decisions about these things.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Keep in mind that wines loose most of their alcohol as they age. The alcohol molecules convert back to sugars, so you'd have to drink twice as much, ha ha. But, the flavor can become so much better. I set back dry whites that have been oaked heavily, these make the best aged wines. And, when I say dry, I mean brings a pucker. The shit that most vinters call dry is way sweeter than I like... mostly because they are trying to imitate aged wine.

But, if one only drinks aged wines and aged tobaccos of the finest... they'd become like McDonald's hamburgers to you. Frequency kills the what makes gourmet special.

I have been recently enlightened as to the aging potential of dry whites and have been enjoying quite a few of them over the last year or so. Haven't had any pucker inducing ones yet though, any recommendations that are available outside of Cosmic Vintners?

Couldn't agree more regarding quality tolerance. That's why I am always sure to occasionally enjoy a nice Miller Lite, Bota Box, or dram of Old Crow

 

[cosmicfolklore]

any recommendations that are available outside of Cosmic Vintners?

I prefer smaller wineries, because I just don't trust a winery once it becomes incorporated. Bad decisions are made once shareholders are beholden. Viogniers are a varietal that I am currently tracking down, and like I said, small wineries tend to do better at making a dry one. It is like a chardonnay, except less acidic and dries out really nicely, which I understand helps the aging process.

I would gladly send you case of my wines, but my state is in the process of working out this new concept of mailing wines right now. but, hopefully very soon, I would feel better about mailing.

 

[alaskanpiper]

I prefer smaller wineries, because I just don't trust a winery once it becomes incorporated. Bad decisions are made once shareholders are beholden. Viogniers are a varietal that I am currently tracking down, and like I said, small wineries tend to do better at making a dry one. It is like a chardonnay, except less acidic and dries out really nicely, which I understand helps the aging process.

I would gladly send you case of my wines, but my state is in the process of working out this new concept of mailing wines right now. but, hopefully very soon, I would feel better about mailing.

Only Viognier I've ever had was from Stoller and it was excellent. I'll keep an eye out for more.

 

[smokiespipesmoker123]

I just recently finished some 18 year old Va/Per Flake.. it was good to the last... and it had been in a jar for most of it, bought it bulk

 

[condorlover1]

I've had stuff starting from 1919 through to the late 40s. I have found that 'cutter top' tins tend to do very well if they are not compromised and thus 'whoosh' when you pierce the tin is very satisfying. If not jarred up after opening they go flat very quickly. Ashdigger is the expert on this stuff!

 

[sablebrush52]

If a 2 oz. tin is only going to deliver a great smoke for a week or two after opening, and then promptly go flat, that would be troubling for someone like me who routinely takes months to smoke a tin.

With really old weed, it's more like a day or two. A couple of weeks would be a godsend.

 

[skydog]

I've smoked a number of 20-30 year old tins. Generally I try to smoke them sparingly to make them last. Maybe I've just been lucky so far but all the decades+ old tobaccos I've enjoyed have held up for months and even years in some cases without losing what was special about them when first cracked open. I've actually found the reverse on a few occasions, Virginias that were so vinegary when first opened that they weren't enjoyable but after a few weeks or months airing out in a mason jar they were very enjoyable.

 

[lawdawg]

With really old weed, it's more like a day or two. A couple of weeks would be a godsend.

That's exactly what I'm concerned about. It's looking more and more like cellaring is not a panacea to all future tobacco price and availability problems. That said, I expect there will always be some good tobacco around to fill our pipes.

I've smoked a number of 20-30 year old tins. Generally I try to smoke them sparingly to make them last. Maybe I've just been lucky so far but all the decades+ old tobaccos I've enjoyed have held up for months and even years in some cases without losing what was special about them when first cracked open. I've actually found the reverse on a few occasions, Virginias that were so vinegary when first opened that they weren't enjoyable but after a few weeks or months airing out in a mason jar they were very enjoyable.

I am hoping to figure out the reasonable expected longevity of a tin of tobacco, which I would define as however many years can you hang on to a tin, open it, and smoke it fairly casually without worrying about it withering away to nothing. It's looking like perhaps twenty years or so might be the applicable timeframe here.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

That's exactly what I'm concerned about. It's looking more and more like cellaring is not a panacea to all future tobacco price and availability problems. That said, I expect there will always be some good tobacco around to fill our pipes.



I am hoping to figure out the reasonable expected longevity of a tin of tobacco, which I would define as however many years can you hang on to a tin, open it, and smoke it fairly casually without worrying about it withering away to nothing. It's looking like perhaps twenty years or so might be the applicable timeframe here.

I’m guessing you’re in your 40’s as most people are on here. You will be in your 60’s when you have to worry with your stash turning to shit after you open it. You will be slowing down, with more time on your hands as you reach retirement. Don’t worry so much. But, know that there is risk. Anything with a pay out comes with risk.
I assume that in 20 years, tobacco won’t even be grown commercially any more. And, I’ll be in my 70’s close to 80 if I even live that long. So I don’t give a shit. I just hope my kids don’t stash me in somewhere where I can’t even smoke. That’s more of a worry to me than shitdust. I don’t know anyone over 70 NOT in a living facility.

20 years, so much can happen. Stuff we felt was important at 30 or 40 is no longer even a thought.

I don’t have an optimism about pipes lasting into the 2040’s. Just cellar away, so that it CAN be there of you want to smoke. When and if shitdust becomes a worry, deal with it latter. There’s nothing you can do now. Except if you don’t set any back, your double screwed of tobacco goes the way of the dodo.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

That's exactly what I'm concerned about. It's looking more and more like cellaring is not a panacea to all future tobacco price and availability problems. That said, I expect there will always be some good tobacco around to fill our pipes.



I am hoping to figure out the reasonable expected longevity of a tin of tobacco, which I would define as however many years can you hang on to a tin, open it, and smoke it fairly casually without worrying about it withering away to nothing. It's looking like perhaps twenty years or so might be the applicable timeframe here.

Note that Simon said "If not jarred up ....." I'm not a chemist but will make the assumption the reintroduction of oxygen to the leaf causes it to break down. Not unreasonable to think that. But what's the big deal with jarring an old tin that's been opened?

Given that cellaring deep now is a hedge against availability and significant price increases, what other reasonable alternatives are there?

I'd also point out there is very limited data points to make any conclusion. I've opened several tins of McClelland from the 90's (Christmas Cheer and Bombay Extra) that tasted more full and rich than fresh tobacco. I only put the lid back on and the tobacco was just as good several months later. I had some Mac Baren Virginia blend gifted to me that was from the 70's in a jar. It blew my socks off, I couldn't believe how rich and strong it was and how sharp the flavors were. I screwed the lid back on and smoked on it for several months, no problem.

I also haven't heard how these decades old tins were stored? On a store shelf? In a garage with no temperature or humidity control? Is the seal on tins made these days better or worse than they were decades ago? Again, there is a lot of missing data from very limited data points. Certainly not enough data to draw any kind of accurate conclusion.

My point is there's nothing I see here that would even come close to making me panic over my cellar. Harris is consistently, day in, day out, smoking tobacco that is over 10 years old and has reported zero problems that I know of.

 

[condorlover1]

If you vacuum seal the tin in one of those food bag 'type things' that would probably work. I've had a lot of 'cutter top' tins through my hands over the years. I usually pass them on since with the exception of a 1940s tin of Condor that I smoked and a number of Capstan Brown tins that got smoked I've never had the desire or inclination to smoke the contents of these elderly blends. As an after thought I've had quite a few tins of Balkan Sobranie that were ancient that Shaintiques smoked his way through and said they were pretty good. I guess like anything your MMV.

 

[condorlover1]

@hoosierpipeguy: Just to clarify Mark. Once opened those old 'cutter top' tins are not exactly airtight by any stretch of the imagination and dry out quickly. Tipping the contents into a jar keeps that certain 'je ne sais quoi' around for a little longer whilst you consume or share the contents with your friends! Looking forward to seeing you on Saturday!