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Jan 29, 2025
13
40
Kenner, LA
Resurrecting an old thread…

Returning to pipes after an a sense of nearly 30 years, never had SWR but knew of its reputation. I bought a small pouch from SPC and it has the STG stamp on it. I was aware of the potential issues with vinegar, but as a fan of anything pickled, thought I’d give it a try. This was a couple of weeks ago.

Mild vinegar straight from the pouch. Not sure I’d have noticed it had I not been on the lookout for it, but there it was. Made a bowl of it in my new cob (only a few bowls smoked prior, HH being the only aro blend I tried beforehand). Strong sour right off the bat, not throughly unpleasant, so I finished the bowl. It got progressively worse as I smoked. By the end I felt like I’d gargled white cleaning vinegar.

Worried about an acid burn on my tongue, and already suffering mild tongue bite, I swished some water in my mouth and spit it out, which helped but didn’t cure it. It was stuck in the papillae of my tongue. So I made a solution of about a half tablespoon of baking soda in a cup of water and swished that around for a few minutes. My tongue felt a bit tingly and, once that subsided and my tongue felt normal again, I spat the solution into the kitchen sink. It was all foam, indicating that the baking soda had neutralized the acetic acid I was tasting, releasing carbon dioxide bubbles (which also caused the tingle) and it was gone from my mouth at that point.

I sealed up the pouch until today. I’m going to air it out. Vinegar is watered down acetic acid, about 5% by volume. Acetic acid is a liquid at room temperature and has a boiling point a little higher than that of water when pure. Therefore, in theory, it can evaporate out of the tobacco just as water can, but somewhat more slowly.

A confounder could be that we actually taste an acetate salt, which is non-volatile, and the acetate will have to react with any available water to steal a proton and thus become volatile. Sadly we can’t know this without chemical analyses of various types.

I’m going to air out my pouch and see what happens. I imagine the sour will weaken over time but there’s only one way to find out, and I mean to try. Note that this will be a subjective study only; I lack the means and time to do something quantitative and repeatable.

I’m not a practicing chemist though I have most of a doctorate in it and use it daily for my job. I’d never claim to know everything, so I would enjoy reading others thoughts if they have them. Especially if I got something wrong! 😁
 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
13,273
23,303
SE PA USA
I always assumed that the acetic acid taste/aroma that was characteristic of some McClelland blends was a byproduct of fermentation, that is, naturally occurring (although induced). When Sutliff came out with RC-1, it seemed that they had actually added acetic acid to the blend to try and mimic the McClelland flavor profile. It would seem that STG may be doing the same now.

Thoughts and comments?
 

Pipke

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 3, 2024
560
1,656
East of Cleveland, Ohio. USA
My son gave me a pouch of SWR Regular - it had a vinegary odor - much like the vinegar whang I got off of a tin of SPC Plum Pudding. The SWR smoked OK - no objections. A pound of SWR costs more than a pound of Pegasus so probably will not stock up on this stuff.
 
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Zamora

Lifer
Mar 15, 2023
1,058
2,790
Olympia, Washington
I always assumed that the acetic acid taste/aroma that was characteristic of some McClelland blends was a byproduct of fermentation, that is, naturally occurring (although induced). When Sutliff came out with RC-1, it seemed that they had actually added acetic acid to the blend to try and mimic the McClelland flavor profile. It would seem that STG may be doing the same now.

Thoughts and comments?
I don't see STG deliberately trying to mimic McClelland, but it makes perfect sense for Sutliff. STG overwhelmingly caters to a customer base that probably hasn't even heard of McClelland but Sutliff definitely catered to the crowd that does. Besides it seems bizarre to use a codger burley to mimic McClelland, I'd think they'd use OGS, Escudo, or any of the Pete VAs if they wanted to get that effect. I don't know if McClelland even made any straight burleys.
 

OverMountain

Lifer
Dec 5, 2021
1,445
5,201
NOVA
Resurrecting an old thread…

Returning to pipes after an a sense of nearly 30 years, never had SWR but knew of its reputation. I bought a small pouch from SPC and it has the STG stamp on it. I was aware of the potential issues with vinegar, but as a fan of anything pickled, thought I’d give it a try. This was a couple of weeks ago.

Mild vinegar straight from the pouch. Not sure I’d have noticed it had I not been on the lookout for it, but there it was. Made a bowl of it in my new cob (only a few bowls smoked prior, HH being the only aro blend I tried beforehand). Strong sour right off the bat, not throughly unpleasant, so I finished the bowl. It got progressively worse as I smoked. By the end I felt like I’d gargled white cleaning vinegar.

Worried about an acid burn on my tongue, and already suffering mild tongue bite, I swished some water in my mouth and spit it out, which helped but didn’t cure it. It was stuck in the papillae of my tongue. So I made a solution of about a half tablespoon of baking soda in a cup of water and swished that around for a few minutes. My tongue felt a bit tingly and, once that subsided and my tongue felt normal again, I spat the solution into the kitchen sink. It was all foam, indicating that the baking soda had neutralized the acetic acid I was tasting, releasing carbon dioxide bubbles (which also caused the tingle) and it was gone from my mouth at that point.

I sealed up the pouch until today. I’m going to air it out. Vinegar is watered down acetic acid, about 5% by volume. Acetic acid is a liquid at room temperature and has a boiling point a little higher than that of water when pure. Therefore, in theory, it can evaporate out of the tobacco just as water can, but somewhat more slowly.

A confounder could be that we actually taste an acetate salt, which is non-volatile, and the acetate will have to react with any available water to steal a proton and thus become volatile. Sadly we can’t know this without chemical analyses of various types.

I’m going to air out my pouch and see what happens. I imagine the sour will weaken over time but there’s only one way to find out, and I mean to try. Note that this will be a subjective study only; I lack the means and time to do something quantitative and repeatable.

I’m not a practicing chemist though I have most of a doctorate in it and use it daily for my job. I’d never claim to know everything, so I would enjoy reading others thoughts if they have them. Especially if I got something wrong! 😁
Confounder? What kind of research do you do sir? 😀
 
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Jan 29, 2025
13
40
Kenner, LA
Update:
So my pouch of SWR has been unsealed for about 2 weeks; I did close it by wrapping it back up as it would have sat on the shelf after my first ill-fated bowl from it. With an aluminized bag, but no seal, it was leaking humidity at a slow rate. Yesterday morning I opened it up and set it aside to air out. It was noticeably drier after just 10 or so hours, and the vinegar smell was present but muted, so I packed a bowl and gave it a smoke.

Not as pronounced as before, but definitely still a vinegar taste at the back of my tongue. In general I just swallowed it away. The underlying tobacco flavor wasn’t great but wasn’t terrible. I’m going to continue to let it air out and try another bowl in a few days.

TL;DR: still vinegary after airing out but less so.
 

cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,753
84,121
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
I haven't tried SWR in years. This is all very interesting to me, as I have experimented with getting that taste in my own homegrown blends. But, unless I stumble upon some SDWR at the drug store, I am not going out of my way to get any of this. I do see OTC's behind the counter at Walgreens and Publix still.
 
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JimInks

Sultan of Smoke
Aug 31, 2012
65,636
678,952
I haven't tried SWR in years. This is all very interesting to me, as I have experimented with getting that taste in my own homegrown blends. But, unless I stumble upon some SDWR at the drug store, I am not going out of my way to get any of this. I do see OTC's behind the counter at Walgreens and Publix still.
That doesn't happen in North Carolina or at least in my area of the state. I wonder why you can get them at those places, and we can't. I would think they would be more likely to stock the same things, but I guess not.
 

cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,753
84,121
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
That doesn't happen in North Carolina or at least in my area of the state. I wonder why you can get them at those places, and we can't. I would think they would be more likely to stock the same things, but I guess not.
I also have a home in Hot Springs, NC and the Ingles in Marshall carries several types of OTC pipe tobaccos.
 
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Pipke

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 3, 2024
560
1,656
East of Cleveland, Ohio. USA
Inspired by this thread I smoked more SWR. The vinegar taste was strong. Just drawing off the hot bowl I experienced a warm jet of vinegar taste with the thin smoke. It was tolerable but quite a distraction. I like vinegar so it didn't destroy my smoke completely, but not what I look forward to when settling down for a nice smoke. There's better tobacco out there