corporations drug screening for nicotine.

[warren]

Of course union/management contracts have a great bearing on working conditions. In the NFL the Player's Association agreed to a very detailed, perhaps even draconian, drug enforcement program. Unions and other bargaining units see the writing on the wall with regard to safety and public opinion and so are not particularly hostile to such clauses in agreements.
Personally, I am prefer to lobby on my own behalf for salary and benefits. I was never really happy in a bargaining unit. I was not comfortable that the slowest, least valuable patrolman was making the same as I was. I resented the situation. Do not misunderstand me, I do understand the need for collective bargaining in certain circumstances, I just prefer to do my own negotiations. My employer's view of my value was sometimes eye opening. Sometimes they forced me into a reevaluation of my perceived value. Sometimes I'd change their perception.
I had a few positions over the years where I handled my own negotiations. I felt my compensation was based on my performance only and not that of others in similar positions with a lesser work ethic. I really enjoyed working in an environment where I was paid a decent wage and had the expectation of performance bonuses based strictly on my work and/or my contribution to the bottom line. Working harder meant more moneys.
This is not to disparage those of us who get to a level where we are satisfied with salary and work conditions, Maslow's "Hierarchy of Needs" is not to be ignored. More power to them. I never reached my comfort level in either of the upper two levels.

 

[aldecaker]

The only reason I mention it is because of the almost casual, dismissive tone of "if you don't like it, piss off and get another job." Anyone represented by a union is not, when faced with something they feel is unfair or discriminatory, going to casually piss off and find another job. They are going to utilize the means at their disposal to fight the situation. It seems very easy for someone in a protected environment to expect everyone else to just shut up and take the lumps their employer dishes out, or walk away without trying to preserve their livelihood. My career is just as important to me and my family as it is to a person doing the same job under union protection, and it's not as easy as one might think to "just walk away".

 

[gloucesterman]

The health insurance aspect is only going to get worse. The employer is as much of a victim here as we are as individuals. The cost of millions of policies went up because they now need to cover things that were not covered in the past. To keep the price in a reasonable range the only real option was to reduce the payout for insurance companies. That took the form of higher deductibles. Obamacare at work for you!

 

[peckinpahhombre]

The question in my mind is whether we should allow private contract to prevail in this instance or whether the state should intervene to protect interests that supercede those rights, as it does in many areas of the economy, including securities regulation.
In my view there is a compelling right to privacy here that supercedes pure private law contractual rights. The issue is whether one's right to personal privacy in their own private life should trump freedom of contract. If you believe that it should, as evidently some states do, then you would support legislation that prevents this sort of thing. If you don't, then you won't. n
I know where I would land on that one. Where does it end if nothing is done? If an employer insisted that you wear a go-pro camera at all times so that they could confirm that you aren't engaging in risky behaviour in your free time, would that be acceptable? Does freedom of contract prevail in those circumstances? In my mind, no, it shouldn't, and the state therefore has a compelling interest to intervene.

 

[warren]

Improving one's self is not supposed to be easy. Life is full of tough decisions, it's what makes living interesting for me. If one is comfortable in a job perceived as oppressive or as a dull rut, more power to them. If one is not happy about it, do something to change it.
I don't think anyone is being dismissive of the pressures of the job. Or, that hunting a new job is something to be taken lightly. I do think that too many people enjoy the security of a dead end or "crap" job to the detriment of themselves and their family's mental health. You gotta take care of yourself in order to take care of the family. If your job is only a job, you have my sympathy. But, I would suggest that you step back and see what the situation is costing you, if anything, in mental and physical health. Is your family unhappy or disturbed? Are you overly stressed? Is life good?
If your answer yes, yes and no, it is time to make an objective review of your situation and make some tough decisions.

 

[lordofthepiperings]

The thing I find horrible about this is, they are screening you for a legal substance you imbibed at home not at work.

They also screen for alcohol which is a legal substance one can imbibe in at home as well.

 

[perdurabo]

Big pond, sorry but your explanation is a fallacy, there is no law in this country that says you have a civil right to a job. As far as collective bargaining, any business that lets that commie shit in their work place, has a hard on for bankruptcy.

 

[plugugly]

An unlimited ability to "change the rules of the game" on an employee seems a bit much power in the hands of the employer for my comfort. Often a job accepted means a family move, new schools or financial commitments not otherwise made. On the other hand, what is one more or less of the workerbees to the queen? If you don't like the new honey here-buzz off! Accepting a restriction is one thing. Springing it on your existing work force is quite another!

 

[aldecaker]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Why are we now talking about "improving one's self"? Shit is tough all over, and you've got to make your own way in this world. Where in this thread did being stuck in a dead-end job (???) get conflated with feeling you are being treated unfairly by an employer? I am not unhappy in my job, and my employer does not test for nicotine (yet). I put myself through school with money I had saved from working shit jobs, working while in school, and had to borrow a small amount to boot. I have a satisfying career and am proud of my role in safeguarding the public. I don't need a lecture on self-improvement; I know from experience exactly how to improve myself and my situation. Simply saying, easy for someone to point a finger and say, "If you don't like anything your employer is doing, just leave".

 

[aldecaker]

@perdurabo- Better start petitioning all your many layers of government. I'm sure they'll want to get that commie shit out of the police department, fire department, public schools, and any other taxpayer-funded job.

 

[gloucesterman]

I'm not a big supporter of an employers right to dictate conditions that are intrusive without a compelling reason to do so (public safety, etc.). But neither do I believe there is an unconditional right to employment. The States can and do restrict what an employer can ask of his/her employees. But in the end I stand with Warren. You made the choice and you can unmake it. If you don't like the policies seek employment elsewhere. Sometimes we are all faced with tough choices and don't much like either outcome but what remains true is that you get to make the decision. The employer gets to dictate the conditions, you get to choose, play or pass. For the employer, even Non-Compete clauses have been for all intent and purposes held invalid. They are essentially unenforceable. There is little or nothing a company can do if you decide to leave. And as Warren pointed out, if you're good enough they make an exception. It's the law of supply and demand. If what you offer is in demand you can dictate the conditions, if it's not you accept what is offered or go elsewhere where you think things better. Not saying it's "fair" but it is reality.

 

[aldecaker]

Lesson learned. If something is "unfair", like being discriminated against, it is simply reality. Never challenge it; simply move on. Good to know.

 

[tuold]

Working in pharmacies for most of my adult life, I've been subjected to random tests and surveillance. In this case I think it's a very good idea and never had a problem with it.I looked at it more as a safety issue than a security one. It's just way too easy to get hooked on some of the things we had available to us. Without the testing and surveillance, if something would go missing or counts come up short everybody would be suspect. I always knew I was clean. It's like wearing a radiation badge if you are around X Ray equipment. I've seen lives ruined by drug addiction.
Testing for nicotine is another issue and one I don't support. I've seen people singled out and punished for positive test results. One person was a pharmacist who happen to be teaching a smoking cessation class. She briefly chewed on a piece of nicotine gum out curiosity, was identified as a tobacco user through testing the next day and put through a three month class herself even though we all knew she was a non-smoker. That was just insane. Her other option was to pay higher insurance premiums for three months then be tested again after signing a statement saying she will not consume tobacco again.
@perdurabo, you are correct. Having a job is a privilege not a right. You make people happy and they pay you. You make them sad and they fire you.

 

[disinformatique]

We just moved to a new building at my job and due to fire regulations smoking is not allowed in the building, but you can go outside and smoke anything legal be it a cigar, pipe, cigarette, hookah etc. etc. Good thing is that my employer doesn't believe in this bullshit.
Chris

 

[gloucesterman]

Who said never challenge it? And by the way Collective Bargaining agreements seldom reflect the rules of employment applied to the general public at large. Apples and Oranges. That's been the selling point for many unions for years. For the vast majority the reality is if you don't meet the employers expectations (whatever they might be within the law) you can be expected to be let go. In this country legislators (State & Federal) determine what is permitted and what is not. Challenges take place every day either through proposed legislation or administrative ruling. What we all have to deal with is what is permitted and what is not as it stands today. Complaining about it doesn't change the reality you're living with, although it may result in a change down the road. In the case of screening of some types it's probably inevitable. Should a police officer be tested for Pot use in a State where it is legal? Can a collective bargaining agreement protect the officer from such testing? Probably not because there is an over riding need to assure they are always fit for duty. How much testing and for what is new ground. The guideline will come soon enough. I remember OHSA when it first came into being. It was years before anyone really know what was and was not allowed. Testing will be the same.

 

[okiescout]

it's a right that you practice on your time. There in lies the question!
I go along with their right to say what I can do on their time. They are paying me for what I do while they are paying for it. They are not going to pay me for what I do on my time! Therefore to my way of thinking, my legal actions practiced on my time, are then none of their business. When lines are encroached without protest eventually they will be encroached on further.

Actually in my state if you encroach on a neighbors property, and he fails to contest it for 7 years, the encroached property goes to the invader by law.

 

[aldecaker]

"If you don't like the policies seek employment elsewhere" pretty much covers the Don't challenge it part.
I think we've lost the thread of the thread, so to speak. The part I take umbrage with is simple. If you are holding an employee to a certain standard, at peril of their job, do so uniformly. If weeding out unhealthy habits among workers is your goal, weed out all unhealthy habits, or no unhealthy habits. Don't tell me I can't smoke, and tell my co-worker they are free to weigh 500 pounds and bang $2 hookers bareback, and say the whole scam is about "productive workers" and "health care", because it's pure, unadulterated horseshit.

 

[atskywalker]

There lies the problem.

But just because I work for someone does not mean they fricking own me like a slave

There's a fundamental assumption that we, the people, are free but unfortunately closer inspection does not uphold that assumption.

 

[bigpond]

Big pond, sorry but your explanation is a fallacy, there is no law in this country that says you have a civil right to a job. As far as collective bargaining, any business that lets that commie shit in their work place, has a hard on for bankruptcy.

I'd be grateful if you could point out the fallacy. Since I never implied a job was a civili right it seems what we're looking at is a misunderstanding or a knowledge gap. However, it is in the first line of the US Constitution depending on how you want to interpret it.

 

[gloucesterman]

You are. You can walk away anytime you choose to. What the employer is saying is "if you work here, these are the conditions you must agree to". If you believe those conditions intrude on areas of your life that are unreasonable you don't have to agree to abide by those conditions but likely as not you won't be hired or retained. Your choice. When you accept a position with specified conditions the doctrine of "Implied Consent" becomes enforceable. That is you took the job knowing the conditions and because you did it can be fairly believed you would abide by those conditions. The Pot cases cited above reinforce that ruling. The logic, because the residual trace elements remain in your system you are not free of their impacts when on the job. Weather you agree with that or not, that's the current interpretation. What other areas they can test for is still a gray area but it will become clear pretty quickly. The lawyers love this stuff.