C&D Does Not Use Dark Fired In Their Bulk Blends. Wondering Why...

[logs]

The same tins of this are still on the shelves at The Briary, at least they were before covid. I bought one early on and it tasted like a kitchen sink blend to me. a whole lot of stuff in there. I didn't realize anyone liked it.

Sounds like Latakia Rolls, everything except what you're expecting. Mac Baren makes a lot of great blends but they're utterly useless at English and VaPers for some reason.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

utterly useless at English and VaPers for some reason.

I think of the Danish styles as being more aromatic anyways. Adding Sutliff to their collection didn't exactly branch them out into a behemoth of Non aros.

 

[jeremyreeves]

I think Directors Cut is the one you're referring to. Jiminks and others have said it appears they recently upped the DFK and lessened the perique which thru off the balance in the blend. Whether that was just a one off or is the new recipe is anyones guess

Thanks, yes! That's the one! And then, of course, Three Nuns many years ago, as others here have mentioned. My only point is that we are not talking about a widespread industry trend toward substituting Dark Fired Kentucky for Perique, while but still calling it Perique, or adding Dark Fired to blends that contain Perique where there was none (Nun) previously. We have 2 examples so far, and there are a lot of blends that contain Perique.

 

[ofafeather]

or adding Dark Fired to blends that contain Perique where there was none (Nun) previously

It was really interesting to read Kevin’s article on Three Nun’s history. I started smoking right at the time when Three Nun’s disappeared from the US market around 2000. In the article they mention that DFK was discussed as a substitute for Perique in Three Nun’s as early as 1988 and that they had begun replacing it in the pouched ready rubbed version for domestic consumption in the UK while keeping perique int the tin version which was for sale in the duty-free shops. The pouched version was considered lower quality.

Another thing from my cloudy memory, is that I don’t remember DFK being discussed much in the early 2000’s and as suggested by the OP, was really not a major component of C&Ds original line-up. It clearly existed and was being used in many blends across the industry but maybe it wasn’t a component that was easily recognized but smokers so was left of the basic blend descriptions? Not talking about C&D here but others in general. I could be wrong about this entirely. Maybe it just never crossed my radar at the time.

 

[logs]

I think of the Danish styles as being more aromatic anyways. Adding Sutliff to their collection didn't exactly branch them out into a behemoth of Non aros.

I agree. Mac Baren has honed a style and has many memorable blends. Not many companies could do what they do. It doesn't matter much that they don't offer Balkan blends or VaPers.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My only point is that we are not talking about a widespread industry trend toward substituting Dark Fired Kentucky for Perique,

Back when Russ was cranking out his RO line, when he added Firestorm and Viprati and I can't remember which others, someone made the statement/question, "Why are there so many blenders making VaPers with Dark Fired?" And, many renowned forum members here took it as gospel without questioning it that it had become a trend. This has stuck, and gets repeated till... people take it as fact.

There are quite a few perique and Dark Fired blends, but I don't think it has become a new thing.

Sure, sure, I misquoted air cured as fire cured from the Mark Ryan Lecture. I'll own that one. Ha ha, but many mistakes and misconceptions get repeated on here till it just becomes forum facts for many.

 

[logs]

I think there has been a boom over the last 10 or 15 years with VA blends using dark fired for spice. While I don't think they make a convincing substitute for perique blends there seems to be an audience for it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I think there has been a boom over the last 10 or 15 years with VA blends using dark fired for spice. While I don't think they make a convincing substitute for perique blends there seems to be an audience for it.

Something happening over a decade and a half is not exactly what I would call a boom, ha ha. If so, then we could say that there has been a boom in latakia blends for a while now.

But, I know what you mean. I really like DF used as a condiment. I think I prefer it without perique though. Woodsroads sent me a huge shipment of some high grade DFK he sourced from a farmer a few years ago. It was so much stronger and smokier than any I got sold as blender. I was adding that to almost all of my Virginias for a while.

 

[jeremyreeves]

I think there has been a boom over the last 10 or 15 years with VA blends using dark fired for spice. While I don't think they make a convincing substitute for perique blends there seems to be an audience for it.

I completely agree that Dark Fired has come to be used with more prominence in recent years. No question, that is true. In the last 10 to 15 years, lots of blends have been introduced that incorporated Dark Fired. That is very different than what it sounds like some are suggesting, which is that pipe tobacco manufacturers are substituting Dark Fired for Perique in their blends that claim to contain Perique, or that Perique processors are using Dark Fired to make their Perique.

Back when Russ was cranking out his RO line, when he added Firestorm and Viprati and I can't remember which others, someone made the statement/question, "Why are there so many blenders making VaPers with Dark Fired?" And, many renowned forum members here took it as gospel without questioning it that it had become a trend. This has stuck, and gets repeated till... people take it as fact.

There are quite a few perique and Dark Fired blends, but I don't think it has become a new thing.

Sure, sure, I misquoted air cured as fire cured from the Mark Ryan Lecture. I'll own that one. Ha ha, but many mistakes and misconceptions get repeated on here till it just becomes forum facts for many.

Sure, I get that and it's something that we all do to one degree or another. Take in information that sounds right, or that satisfies us with a boost of serotonin, or that easily explains a pattern we've observed, and then that becomes "the truth". When terms get mixed up along the way, "the truth" gets even further from The Truth, and it takes some unraveling to find your way back. We are all human and I am just as guilty of this as anyone else.

For me, it is important that someone who likes Bayou Morning Flake, can rest assured that the next time they purchase it, it 's still going to contain 25% Perique, rather than getting the idea that C&D is calling Dark Fired Perique now, or that Perique is now made with Dark Fired.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

, it is important that someone who likes Bayou Morning Flake, can rest assured that the next time they purchase it, it 's still going to contain 25% Perique, rather than getting the idea that C&D is calling Dark Fired Perique now, or that Perique is now made with Dark Fired.

Crap. if you add Dark Fired to Morning Bayou, will it no longer be offered in bulk?

 

[anotherbob]

Crap. if you add Dark Fired to Morning Bayou, will it no longer be offered in bulk?

nope. It seems like one of the things that prevents one of their blends from being bulk is if it would make me feel shy about writing a review out of concern that people might confuse it for a review of something more explicit and erotic. Like some of the bulk blends are great, but the knock your socks off and flip your wig blends all seem to be tinned only. (trying to bait someone into explaining a little more about the process of what gets made into bulk and what's not, just play along I think it has a chance of working).

 

[jeremyreeves]

nope. It seems like one of the things that prevents one of their blends from being bulk is if it would make me feel shy about writing a review out of concern that people might confuse it for a review of something more explicit and erotic.

Okay, with some trepidation, but also no judgment, can I ask for some clarification about what you mean? ?

 

[anotherbob]

Okay, with some trepidation, but also no judgment, can I ask for some clarification about what you mean? ?

Just that there are some really great blends available in Bulk but it seems the ones that are just the tops are only available in tins (Tuskegee Airmen for example).
Oh almost forgot I haven't tried enough for this to be an informed opinion.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Okay, with some trepidation, but also no judgment, can I ask for some clarification about what you mean? ?

“¯\_(ツ)_/¯“ Damn anotherbob, we let you talk to someone real just this once and this is what you say?

 

[anotherbob]

“¯\_(ツ)_/¯“ Damn anotherbob, we let you talk to someone real just this once and this is what you say?

He probably needs it. Sometimes breaking someones brain releases creative powers. That's why I bug you so much.

 

[jeremyreeves]

Just that there are some really great blends available in Bulk but it seems the ones that are just the tops are only available in tins (Tuskegee Airmen for example).
Oh almost forgot I haven't tried enough for this to be an informed opinion.

I see what you mean, I will beware that any review you've written of Tuskegee Airman may not be suitable for family settings.

Here are just some general things to consider about our Tinned vs. Bulk products.

1. Many of our blends offered in Bulk are also offered as Tinned products. Where this is true, there is no difference whatsoever between the Bulk and Tinned version, other than the packaging, and we will make enough of the blend to be packaged in Bulk or Tins as needed, at the same time.

2. The products we offer in exclusively in Bulk, are by nature, not specialty or limited products, and they represent a savings to the consumer due to the simplified processing and packaging. That said, they use the same specific grades and supplies of leaf as our Tinned products. In other words, there is not a lower quality or cheaper component used for Bulk products as compared to the tobacco used in our tinned products. It's all the same types and grades and we use the best we can source in every component. We don't use filler tobaccos, don't use bulking products, etc. We use the same top quality materials in all our blends.

3. Some of our tobaccos types are limited in availability, and some of our blends require a lot of processing like Flake, Plug, Ready Rubbed, Steamed components, etc. Given that Bulk is all about high volume, lower processing requirement blends for savings and everyday enjoyment, we don't offer blends in Bulk that contain really rare components or that require a lot of costly handwork. We also don't offer things in Bulk that don't sell well in smaller sizes. Tuskegee Airman is offered as a Cake format. While we do offer some of our Cakes in 16oz. vacuum sealed packages, Tuskegee Airman has not been a blend that we have seen enough volume in 2oz. tins to justify offering it in a larger size.

4. Packaging makes a difference, and I always recommend that Bulk purchases be transferred to glass jars, whether for short-term or long-term storage. The bags we use are not thin or flimsy, but they are still plastic, which is not totally airtight and which can absorb flavors and aromas over the long-term, having a muting effect.

 

[krizzose]

I

Odd, I didn't so but you're right they don't make many perique blends, and only one under the MacBaren brand in fact. I wonder why, given there are so many VaPers on the market, I bet they could make up a brilliant HH VaPer, especially considering the amazing HH Acadian Perique is sadly discontinued - not true VaPer at all though. Maybe Acadian Perique was their answer to VaPers and given they needed to remove it to make way for other blends they consider the VaPer field saturated.

I'd love to see them develop a VaPer and and VaOr for the HH line.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Packaging makes a difference, and I always recommend that Bulk purchases be transferred to glass jars, whether for short-term or long-term storage.

Hell, I burned through a pound of Habana Daydream from my last order so fast that I never even took the bag all the way out of the box.

 

[jeremyreeves]

Hell, I burned through a pound of Habana Daydream from my last order so fast that I never even took the bag all the way out of the box.

Ah, the gentle, relaxing, contemplative, unrushed enjoyment of pipe smoking...

 

[anotherbob]

While we do offer some of our Cakes in 16oz. vacuum sealed packages, Tuskegee Airman has not been a blend that we have seen enough volume in 2oz. tins to justify offering it in a larger size.

4. Packaging makes a difference, and I always recommend that Bulk purchases be transferred to glass jars, whether for short-term or long-term storage. The bags we use are not thin or flimsy, but they are still plastic, which is not totally airtight and which can absorb flavors and aromas over the long-term, having a muting effect.

Thanks so I pretty much got the gist of what's going on. And you'll be happy to know I bought some jars specifically for my latest bulk (Mountain Camp, which seems like something I'll like having around.)
At least you have Yorktown in bulk (honestly a favorite, it's kind of perfect for me).
And not selling volume in Tuskegee Airman is just proof there is something wrong with people. That's a great blend with a horrible tin note (should put a warning on that, doesn't taste at all like it smells). Seriously that's just a great one.