Burping Jars?

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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
39,429
52,206
I second the motion on not opening a jar of pipe tobacco until you are ready to smoke it. I understand it stops the aging, or at least diminishes the further aging of the blend. So don't burp your jarred pipe tobacco.
 
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There is no gas to escape from a jar. I've been doing this for over a decade now, and I take the rings off of the jars after the seal is set, and not a single lid has ever released the seal for gasses to escape. In fact, the chemical process of converting oxygen to more complex molecules, creates a natural vacuum.

I know, I know... people are gonna point to those rounded baseball shaped GLP tins. Those are just the freaks of the tinned tobacco world. No other tin has ever done that. puffy
My guess is that Greg enchants the tins with his black magic.
 
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Winnipeger

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There is no gas to escape from a jar. I've been doing this for over a decade now, and I take the rings off of the jars after the seal is set, and not a single lid has ever released the seal for gasses to escape. In fact, the chemical process of converting oxygen to more complex molecules, creates a natural vacuum.

I know, I know... people are gonna point to those rounded baseball shaped GLP tins. Those are just the freaks of the tinned tobacco world. No other tin has ever done that. puffy
My guess is that Greg enchants the tins with his black magic.
My 100g Rattrays tins are ballooned like a MF
 

Winnipeger

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Hmmm, none of my Rattrays are bulging. Yours must have just gotten in the crossfire of a GLP curse, haha.
With canning jars, It's the gasses escaping THROUGH THE SEAL that DECREASES the pressure inside the jar, further sealing the lid. That's my understanding. "There is no gas"? Not sure why you'd suggest that.
 
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With canning jars, It's the gasses escaping THROUGH THE SEAL that increases the pressure inside the jar, further sealing the lid. That's my understanding. "There is no gas"? Not sure why you'd suggest that.
I have never suggested that they build up pressure. In all of tobacco-dom there is no suggestion of pressure or gasses building up from aging tobaccos. Otherwise my lids would all pop off. Most of us canners remove the rings, so that we can observe when one does build up pressure. Pressure in foods means spoilage, because that would mean a bacterial infection. I still remove my rings, on over 400 lbs of tobacco collected for over 10 years, and not a top has ever popped off, suggesting that no where ever has pressure formed. Only a vacuum. Virginias, VaPers, Englishes, aromatics, every variety... even my cigar blends... never have gasses built up in a jar.
 
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Winnipeger

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I have never suggested that they build up pressure. In all of tobacco-dom there is no suggestion of pressure or gasses building up from aging tobaccos. Otherwise my lids would all pop off. Most of us canners remove the rings, so that we can observe when one does build up pressure. Pressure in foods means spoilage, because that would mean a bacterial infection. I still remove my rings, on over 400 lbs of tobacco collected for over 10 years, and not a top has ever popped off, suggesting that no where ever has pressure formed. Only a vacuum. Virginias, VaPers, Englishes, aromatics, every variety... even my cigar blends... never have gasses built up in a jar.
Sorry I edited that. I meant the pressure DECREASES. The INCREASING pressure is released through the permeable seal.
 
Sorry I edited that. I meant the pressure DECREASES. The INCREASING pressure is released through the permeable seal.
It's like you aren't reading what I wrote. I remove the rings, and the seal is still there, and when I pry the lids off, you can hear the swishing in of air.
I'm not sure where you've gotten your ideas from on tobacco, but... I'll just play the old dog tobacco farmer card here, ha ha. You can just go convince someone else of this nonsense.
 

Winnipeger

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It's like you aren't reading what I wrote. I remove the rings, and the seal is still there, and when I pry the lids off, you can hear the swishing in of air.
I'm not sure where you've gotten your ideas from on tobacco, but... I'll just play the old dog tobacco farmer card here, ha ha. You can just go convince someone else of this nonsense.
OK. How does a vacuum form inside the jar? I'm saying, as gas escapes, while the ring is still in place, the pressure decreases inside the jar. Have you ever jarred tobacco without first putting the ring in place to hold the lid down? I don't think it would seal if you did that. Once the pressure inside the jar is low enough to hold the lid in place, gas can still force its way out without unsealing the jar. I'd ask you, does tobacco ferment? Because anything going through a fermentation process is going to produce gas.
 

Winnipeger

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And @cosmicfolklore, I'm certainly not trying to argue with and I may be a moron. But you said "There is no gas to escape from the jar." And this just goes against everything I understand about fermentation. Please school me.
 
OK. How does a vacuum form inside the jar? I'm saying, as gas escapes, while the ring is still in place, the pressure decreases inside the jar. Have you ever jarred tobacco without first putting the ring in place to hold the lid down? I don't think it would seal if you did that. Once the pressure inside the jar is low enough to hold the ring in place, gas can still force its way out without unsealing the jar. I'd ask you, does tobacco ferment? Because anything going through a fermentation process is going to produce gas.
The fermentation process of tobacco is not the same as with wines. Yeast creates carbon dioxides from O2 absorbed into the liquids and as a biproduct of converting sugars to alcahol. So, CO2 is released from previously absorbed O2. Therefore you get bubbles.
Tobacco is not the conversion of sugar to alcohol, but the conversion of starches to sugars and the forming of more complex sugars. It is more similar to bulk aging of wine, where a vacuum is formed in wines from this similar conversion of sugars into more complex sugars causing flavonoids and deeper flavors.

Now, before we ever receive the tobacco products, gasses are released in the curing stages. Ammonias are released, as starches break down. Tobacco has taken 2 years to mature in most all cases before a tobacconist ever gets hold of it. So, it is in this release of ammonias that we do get offgassing of tobaccos. But, once we get it, and seal it up, the microscopic enzymes that we want to work, eat up the O2, but it is not absorbed O2, it is free atoms that are then used in the conversion. No CO2 is formed, it is more inert, taking up less space than the original O2, therefore no pressures get built up.

As far as Greg's blends... I'm not even sure he explains it. But, I also have over 100 lbs of tinned tobaccos. And, none of them except for GLP's and maybe five C&D tins have bulged. No a single flat tin. So... esplain that...
 
Bulk aging wines fascinates me, because it is when you actually see the water in the 2-part condensers flow backwards. And, if a winemaker isn't careful, the liquid can just drop down into your wine. Also, once corked, wines will allow microscopic amounts of O2 to flow back into the wine. When you age for over 5 years using plastic stoppers, they have been known to actually suck these plastic stoppers back down into the bottle, because of the vacuums created in the bottle... assuming, you've waited till all yeast production has stopped and all remaining yeast has been cleaned away in the lees.

...there could be release of gas minutes after tobacco has been jarred, before I have removed the lids... but that doesn't explain the sucking down popping sound of the lid being clamped down in a vacuum. I have never heard a burp of release. But, maybe just maybe in the first few seconds... but that doesn't make any sense to me.
 
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If aging tobacco doesn't produce gas, then why are my tins bulging???
Dark Magic GIFs | Tenor
 
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Winnipeger

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 9, 2022
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The fermentation process of tobacco is not the same as with wines. Yeast creates carbon dioxides from O2 absorbed into the liquids and as a biproduct of converting sugars to alcahol. So, CO2 is released from previously absorbed O2. Therefore you get bubbles.
Tobacco is not the conversion of sugar to alcohol, but the conversion of starches to sugars and the forming of more complex sugars. It is more similar to bulk aging of wine, where a vacuum is formed in wines from this similar conversion of sugars into more complex sugars causing flavonoids and deeper flavors.

Now, before we ever receive the tobacco products, gasses are released in the curing stages. Ammonias are released, as starches break down. Tobacco has taken 2 years to mature in most all cases before a tobacconist ever gets hold of it. So, it is in this release of ammonias that we do get offgassing of tobaccos. But, once we get it, and seal it up, the microscopic enzymes that we want to work, eat up the O2, but it is not absorbed O2, it is free atoms that are then used in the conversion. No CO2 is formed, it is more inert, taking up less space than the original O2, therefore no pressures get built up.

As far as Greg's blends... I'm not even sure he explains it. But, I also have over 100 lbs of tinned tobaccos. And, none of them except for GLP's and maybe five C&D tins have bulged. No a single flat tin. So... esplain that...
Well...I can't esplain it. But my Rattrays tins are definitely bulging. Are you saying that NO PULL TOP style tins from other producers bulge? Because if we're talking about the flat style tins, they do allow gasses to escape, same a canning jars. The C&D style tins don't. Where do I get my ideas about tobacco? This idea comes from an interview I watched with Mike McNeil where he said, obviously gases are escaping from those flat tins, because when you open your tobacco closet you can smell it. I'm not sure if tobacco is sterile at the time of canning. I assume there's still live bacteria on it, since there's live bacteria on EVERYTHING.
 
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If aging tobacco doesn't produce gas, then why are my tins bulging???
I would have suggested that maybe some tobaccos were used that may still have ammonias... but hell, I have a bunch of D&R tins that I am fairly sure was never completely rid of ammonia that didn't swell up. I just have no idea why his and a few C&D tins did that. I popped my C&D tins just to make sure that they weren't moldy, and they weren't. So... I have no idea. No other tins of mine have. And, the Rattrays are in paper sided tins. So... unexplained phenomena's.