Briar's Provence- Important?

[Briar Lee]

I feel sorry right now for the folks who think 3 dollar drug store pipes are the epitome of something.

This was a five dollar Marxman Super Briar pipe, back when drug store pipes were a dollar, and London best pipes were $15.




Genuine Pre War of Algerian Independence briar was the epitome of soft, porous, well cured and extra aged briar for luxury pipes.

But it had such a bad reputation for plainness of grain Marxman used Algerian briar, but didn’t usually advertise it.

There might be a hot, wet, bad smoking Algerian briar pipe, but I’ve not found one yet.

Try one. They only cost about twenty bucks for a good example.

 

[sasquatch]

Hey, no offense, but I might have tried one.




It MIGHT be that you're not the only guy who buys old pipes. It MIGHT be that I'm sitting on a stack of old Master Crafts and Marxmans and Monarchs and Lees and Smoke Masters and Kaywoodies and even old Dunhills if I can remember where I put that thing....

It's just, I don't like to brag.


The only thing remarkable about some of these pipes is that the stems stay black a lot longer than a lot of today's poorer vulcanite blanks do. As to how they smoke... they're all right. Same as every other factory pipe ever, GBD would be a good example. Current Ropps for 80 bucks. That kinda thing.

There's better pipes out there.

 

[Briar Lee]

Hey, no offense, but I might have tried one. View attachment 202703




It MIGHT be that you're not the only guy who buys old pipes. It MIGHT be that I'm sitting on a stack of old Master Crafts and Marxmans and Monarchs and Lees and Smoke Masters and Kaywoodies and even old Dunhills if I can remember where I put that thing....

It's just, I don't like to brag.


The only thing remarkable about some of these pipes is that the stems stay black a lot longer than a lot of today's poorer vulcanite blanks do. As to how they smoke... they're all right. Same as every other factory pipe ever, GBD would be a good example. Current Ropps for 80 bucks. That kinda thing.

There's better pipes out there.

A lot of people sat on Algerian briar pipes, until they died.

Otherwise I’d not be able to buy such beautiful, pristine old Marxmans for twenty bucks.



Nobody “collects” plain Marxmans like they do more prestigious brands, but the Benchmade was the top production line grade, a B Jumbo was a larger one, and that pipe had to have cost ten dollars when a dollar was worth about 15 times more than today and Dr Grabows and Yello Boles and Willard’s and such cost a dollar or a dollar and a half.

Whatever blend I smoke in an old Algerian briar pipe comes out the stem heavier, stouter, stronger, richer, more robust, but not hotter, or more bitter,,,,just more wallop,,,,than other briars.

And the way cake just peels away from the chamber walls to leave bare briar showing is amazing to me. It’s repeatable between brands that used Algerian briar.

If you want a mild, light, sweet smoker then keep on walking past the old Algerian briar pipes.

They weren’t particularly beautiful, and only old leather tongued pipe addicts ever loved em’ much to begin with, I think.

 

[n_irwin]

Anis Bouchnak is the only remaining pipe maker in Tunisia, from what I understand. He’s third generation and still makes pipes in his grandfather’s workshop. When I visited his workshop a few years back, he showed me how his father and grandfather prepared the briar that they harvested here in Tunisia, boiling it in a large vat (in water, I presume) to get all of the moisture out of the blocks before leavening them to air dry for years before shaping them.

Is the oil curing process that’s been discussed in this thread the same process, but in oil instead of water? And is air curing the second step, or a different process altogether?

Curious to know more.

 

[Briar Lee]

Anis Bouchnak is the only remaining pipe maker in Tunisia, from what I understand. He’s third generation and still makes pipes in his grandfather’s workshop. When I visited his workshop a few years back, he showed me how his father and grandfather prepared the briar that they harvested here in Tunisia, boiling it in a large vat (in water, I presume) to get all of the moisture out of the blocks before leavening them to air dry for years before shaping them.

Is the oil curing process that’s been discussed in this thread the same process, but in oil instead of water? And is air curing the second step, or a different process altogether?

Curious to know more.

All briar has to be boiled in water first, to get the tannins out of the wood. That’s the first curing. Then it must be air dried or kiln dried. It is then sold to pipe makers.

Once a pipe maker gets in his briar, it should be dry enough to work.


Way, way back there Dunhill, Robert’s and other pipe makers did a second oil curing, followed by drying.

The best makers then aged the oil cured briar for years.


I can’t prove it helped the briar smoke better, but it surely didn’t hurt it.

 

[sasquatch]

All briar has to be boiled in water first, to get the tannins out of the wood. That’s the first curing. Then it must be air dried or kiln dried. It is then sold to pipe makers.

Once a pipe maker gets in his briar, it should be dry enough to work.


Way, way back there Dunhill, Robert’s and other pipe makers did a second oil curing, followed by drying.

The best makers then aged the oil cured briar for years.


I can’t prove it helped the briar smoke better, but it surely didn’t hurt it.

This is all mostly nonsense, your depiction of processes is as backwards as your history.

Blocks are cut from fresh roots and boiled. Then dried marginally and delivered to the buyer, who can do as they please. Aging has always been an in-house thing because no briar cutter could sit on a warehouse of 400,000 blocks "just cuz".

Oil curing as we know it was started by Dunhill, who was unimpressed with the Algerian wood he had, and was trying to find a way to save it. Alfred Dunhill makes this claim in "About Smoke." His "shell" process is just that, an oil bath and heating cycle performed on basically finished stummels. You can see the patent here: https://www.folloder.com/pdf/1341418.pdf

There's no evidence other Dunhill pipes were oil cured, in fact Dunhill speaks against it as regards his preferred Calabrian briar.

Nobody ever "aged oil cured briar for years". That's not at all how the process works. You don't oil cure blocks, you oil cure stummels, and after that, you sell them.

Most pipes were not oil cured, it was an expensive and laborious process.

Wishing stuff doesn't make it true.

 

[ThermionicScott]

It's all "imported briar" to me.

 

[Briar Lee]

This is all mostly nonsense, your depiction of processes is as backwards as your history.

Blocks are cut from fresh roots and boiled. Then dried marginally and delivered to the buyer, who can do as they please. Aging has always been an in-house thing because no briar cutter could sit on a warehouse of 400,000 blocks "just cuz".

Oil curing as we know it was started by Dunhill, who was unimpressed with the Algerian wood he had, and was trying to find a way to save it. Alfred Dunhill makes this claim in "About Smoke." His "shell" process is just that, an oil bath and heating cycle performed on basically finished stummels. You can see the patent here: https://www.folloder.com/pdf/1341418.pdf

There's no evidence other Dunhill pipes were oil cured, in fact Dunhill speaks against it as regards his preferred Calabrian briar.

Nobody ever "aged oil cured briar for years". That's not at all how the process works. You don't oil cure blocks, you oil cure stummels, and after that, you sell them.

Most pipes were not oil cured, it was an expensive and laborious process.

Wishing stuff doesn't make it true.

Only a select few makers oil cured after purchase, but it’s my understanding that all briar suppliers have to cure the briar they harvest by boiling in water, as shown in this video:

How quickly they sell the briar after boiling is up to the briar supplier.

——
With briar, the curing process starts at the sawmill, where, after being cut into blocks, it's boiled in gigantic vats of water. That boiling is important. It helps push the resins and saps out of the wood, replacing them with water.

How Briar Curing Works: History, Methods, and Benefits | Smokingpipes.com

Learn more about the history, methods, and benefits traditional briar curing and how the process ensures optimum smoking qualities

www.smokingpipes.com

—-

It’s those resins and saps that remain in the cured briar, I think give off that characteristic briar taste during break in, until the final user completes the curing process with the heat of the ember.

This old Marxman Benchmade I’m getting tomorrow has been smoked. If there’s any cake it will peel right off using a pocketknife to bare, brown and it will not need any break in again.

Algerian briar has a reputation for being soft.

Why, does cake not cling to softer briar more so than harder briar?

It’s a mystery I have no answer for.

 

[jpberg]

Only a select few makers oil cured after purchase, but it’s my understanding that all briar suppliers have to cure the briar they harvest by boiling in water, as shown in this video:

How quickly they sell the briar after boiling is up to the briar supplier.

——
With briar, the curing process starts at the sawmill, where, after being cut into blocks, it's boiled in gigantic vats of water. That boiling is important. It helps push the resins and saps out of the wood, replacing them with water.

How Briar Curing Works: History, Methods, and Benefits | Smokingpipes.com

Learn more about the history, methods, and benefits traditional briar curing and how the process ensures optimum smoking qualities

www.smokingpipes.com

—-

It’s those resins and saps that remain in the cured briar, I think give off that characteristic briar taste during break in, until the final user completes the curing process with the heat of the ember.

This old Marxman Benchmade I’m getting tomorrow has been smoked. If there’s any cake it will peel right off using a pocketknife to bare, brown and it will not need any break in again.

Algerian briar has a reputation for being soft.

Why, does cake not cling to softer briar more so than harder briar?

It’s a mystery I have no answer for.

Dude. One thing you need to learn is when to stop.
You won’t, and I love you anyway.
But you should.

 

[Briar Lee]

Dude. One thing you need to learn is when to stop.
You won’t, and I love you anyway.
But you should.

How else would a briar harvester deal with a wet, raw burl root cut from a heath shrub but to boil it?

I suppose many years ago they might have just let it dried.

But in order to not be nasty tasting, briar must be boiled, presumably in water, before it’s sold.

The two main shapes of briar blocks, as they come from the cutter, are ebauchon and plateaux.

The customer knows he’s bought a pipe carved from plateaux briar if the maker leaves the raw briar on top.

But he has to trust the maker as to where it was harvested, how it was dried, by kiln or air drying, whether it had an additional oil cure, and if it was aged.

This Edward’s was made from selected Algerian briar, it was boiled in water, then air dried, then boiled in oil, then air dried and aged. All Edward’s Algerian Briar pipes were.

https://pipedia.org/wiki/Edward's



I’ve smoked just Lee’s today.

They are lighter tasting, milder, easier, and better for a beginner, than aged oil cured Algerian briar.

But I’m convinced there is a difference between genuine old Algerian briar and other briar, in how a pipe smokes.

Algerian somehow renders a more robust smoke.

Why, I’ve not decided, but I’m convinced it’s so.

 

[OzPiper]

beautiful, pristine old Marxmans .

View attachment 202749

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

[sasquatch]

Is this the real life?

Is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide

No escape from reality.

Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see.....

So, the take home here is that Algerian briar is magic, but not as magic as Algerian briar. Got it. Some pipes were oil cured therefore all 3 dollar drugstore pipes are magic. Got it.

Glad I stopped by, because this is stuff I wasn't sure about.

 

[georged]

This is all mostly nonsense, your depiction of processes is as backwards as your history.

Blocks are cut from fresh roots and boiled. Then dried marginally and delivered to the buyer, who can do as they please. Aging has always been an in-house thing because no briar cutter could sit on a warehouse of 400,000 blocks "just cuz".

Oil curing as we know it was started by Dunhill, who was unimpressed with the Algerian wood he had, and was trying to find a way to save it. Alfred Dunhill makes this claim in "About Smoke." His "shell" process is just that, an oil bath and heating cycle performed on basically finished stummels. You can see the patent here: https://www.folloder.com/pdf/1341418.pdf

There's no evidence other Dunhill pipes were oil cured, in fact Dunhill speaks against it as regards his preferred Calabrian briar.

Nobody ever "aged oil cured briar for years". That's not at all how the process works. You don't oil cure blocks, you oil cure stummels, and after that, you sell them.

Most pipes were not oil cured, it was an expensive and laborious process.

Wishing stuff doesn't make it true.

Dammit, there you go again, Sas.

FACTS AND REALITY will NOT be tolerated on this or any other Internet forum about ANY subject.

Fanciful imaginings based on secondhand speculation gathered by ignorant people and repeated infinitely using IBM (Internet Based Magnification) until a blissful State of Knowing is achieved [cue angelic chorus] is how it's done.

Now go carve another pipe and stay out of this wood discussion, OK?

 

[sasquatch]

Maybe I should give this Mimmo guy a ring?

 

[mingc]

This is all mostly nonsense, your depiction of processes is as backwards as your history.

Blocks are cut from fresh roots and boiled. Then dried marginally and delivered to the buyer, who can do as they please. Aging has always been an in-house thing because no briar cutter could sit on a warehouse of 400,000 blocks "just cuz".

Oil curing as we know it was started by Dunhill, who was unimpressed with the Algerian wood he had, and was trying to find a way to save it. Alfred Dunhill makes this claim in "About Smoke." His "shell" process is just that, an oil bath and heating cycle performed on basically finished stummels. You can see the patent here: https://www.folloder.com/pdf/1341418.pdf

There's no evidence other Dunhill pipes were oil cured, in fact Dunhill speaks against it as regards his preferred Calabrian briar.

Nobody ever "aged oil cured briar for years". That's not at all how the process works. You don't oil cure blocks, you oil cure stummels, and after that, you sell them.

Most pipes were not oil cured, it was an expensive and laborious process.

Wishing stuff doesn't make it true.

I understand Ashton oil cured and still does (The Ashton Pipe Story - https://pipes2smoke.com/pages//the-ashton-pipe-story). The one Jimmy Craig I have tasted differently for me during break in compared to other pipes. I tasted absolutely no fresh un-caked briar during the initial smokes. In other words, there was no break in. Of course, it could also have been the bowl coating that prevented that taste but overall the inital smokes were very neutral. Everyone else's MMV.

 

[sasquatch]

Ashton, Randy Wiley, Lee Erck, Radice did and still occasionally do. I've done it, it's not big deal. I've had a Wiley, an unsmoked 42 Shell, a Radice, and an Ashton. The Wiley tasted.... slightly.... fresh. The rest tasted like pipes.

My issue doesn't revolve around who oil cures or what it does. My issue revolves around unsubstantiated/incorrect claims about what oil curing is, how it works, when it's done, and what we should believe about the pipes of yesteryear.

 

[mingc]

My issue doesn't revolve around who oil cures or what it does. My issue revolves around unsubstantiated/incorrect claims about what oil curing is, how it works, when it's done, and what we should believe about the pipes of yesteryear.

You're tilting against windmills, my friend. Let it go . . .

 

[sasquatch]

What can I say, I'm a Quixotic Sasquatch.

 

[georged]

What can I say, I'm a Quixotic Sasquatch.

It'll take a braver person than I to click on THAT hit:

 

[sasquatch]

Catwoman is not WHAT?