Briar's Provence- Important?

[craig61a]

Ropp still uses it. Or it at least slaps the word “Algerian” on some their pipes anyway. But I guess some of them are old stummels? IDK. Champ smokers though. And affordable.

Edward’s was or still is supposedly sitting on a mountain of Algerian briar. Ropp name was resurrected back in 2017 to market a bunch of old stummels they had sitting around the factory for decades. Bought several of those Ropp “NOS” pipes back then, and I haven’t even smoked them. Don’t recall whether they were marked as Algerian.

 

[Briar Lee]

That would have been the solicitor from Missouri. I think it is softer, but not a better smoking piece of briar. It May have been why Marxman carvers sculpted their pipes into faces, as well as so many carefree rusticated designs.

All the reference sources I’ve read claim Bob Marx used Algerian briar.

For whatever reason cake peels away from the chamber walls easily on this Mel-o grade carved square panel, it’s way cooler smoking than the small size should expect, and it’s delivering a hearty, savory, rich full smoke just this side of heaven.

View attachment 201578


All my Marxman pipes are just dynamite good smokers, if you like a strong, robust smoke.

None are really very pretty, though.

 

[milk]

There’s definitely a division of opinion here. I wonder what the pipe-makers would say? Or maybe a vote here would be good. It’s either aesthetics-only or taste. Or simply put, the briar has a significant effect on taste and quality of the smoking experience or it doesn’t. What’s more, there’s the complication of whether it’s just down to particulars of the given briar and it’s conditions, particulars that can change all the time, or it really does have to do with a region, process, and/or species and can be actually generalized to a brand of pipe or era of a brand of pipes. Is it more like, “something about the briar of one tree over another,” or “one batch” or “a good year” made some slight or not slight differences? Or, that such and such brand uses such and such process or such and such type of briar that really consistently produced such and such experience?

 

[Waning Embers]

There’s definitely a division of opinion here. I wonder what the pipe-makers would say? Or maybe a vote here would be good. It’s either aesthetics-only or taste. Or simply put, the briar has a significant effect on taste and quality of the smoking experience or it doesn’t. What’s more, there’s the complication of whether it’s just down to particulars of the given briar and it’s conditions, particulars that can change all the time, or it really does have to do with a region, process, and/or species and can be actually generalized to a brand of pipe or era of a brand of pipes. Is it more like, “something about the briar of one tree over another,” or “one batch” or “a good year” made some slight or not slight differences? Or, that such and such brand uses such and such process or such and such type of briar that really consistently produced such and such experience?

Or it's all just in each individual's head.

 

[kcghost]

No, I don't.

 

[sablebrush52]

That’s fascinating.

Right and this is more my question. I love the aesthetics of pipes and, like most, I’ve certain features I find attractive but now I’m wondering if there are kinds of briar that might not look as good but smoke better because of the type or the process. But people here seem to be saying no. Someone here was claiming that Marxman-s smoked great because they’re made from Algerian briar. Maybe it’s a far-fetched claim.

Pipe smokers believe a lot of unprovable stuff. Barling used Algerian briar which they harvested and cured themselves, pretty much unique in the business. Then, in 1954, they lost their Algerian operations due to the Algerian war for independence. After that they bought their briar from whatever source met their metric. Short of being a briar merchant, or a wood worker, I sincerely doubt that anyone can spot the difference, the point being that Barling had a metric for what would work for them and bought that from wherever.

Pipes smoke great because they're made properly with good wood, good drilling and well formed bits, AND because experienced smokers know how to get the best from their pipes and tobaccos.

One of my best smokers is a mid range Brebbia that I bought for $2. Pretty it is not. The grain, what there is of it, is of indifferent quality and the shaping is okay. But is is a great smoking machine that always gives me great flavors. Right now it's on an extended rest, after being in my regular rotation for a year. Nobody here owns a pipe for which I would trade it. Grain is nice, but you can't smoke it.

You're right to be skeptical about ad hominem claims. Experience will prove that they are largely baloney. A great smoking pipe is where you find it.

 

[bullet08]

My palate isn't sensitive enough to notice the different briar being used even if I had brand other than Peterson. I guess it's possible if oil curing was used and the smoker is tasting that oil.

 

[Papamique]

I think you need to try it yourself OP. Having a smoke where I can’t get enough and am disappointed when the bowl is over and I think about my next pipe in between those bowls because the pipe smokes and tastes THAT good no matter which tobacco I am smoking. That’s ALL I care about. How I get there or what makes that a reality for me I just don’t care. I, personally, have culled enough pipes that didn’t give me that experience that I know exactly what I look for to give me the best chance of getting those types of smokes. If the pipe is appealing to my sight and touch then that is a bonus. I think you just need to see for yourself what you like.

PS….to me it is no wonder why people like Ken Barnes, Bill Taylor, Rich Lewis, and the other long standing SUCCESSFUL pipe makers with the reputation of having pipes that deliver the above experience go/went through extremes to THOROUGHLY cure their briar (and also guard that process). Marketing hype for sure but even hype has its limitations if you can’t deliver the goods.

 

[milk]

I think you need to try it yourself OP. Having a smoke where I can’t get enough and am disappointed when the bowl is over and I think about my next pipe in between those bowls because the pipe smokes and tastes THAT good no matter which tobacco I am smoking. That’s ALL I care about. How I get there or what makes that a reality for me I just don’t care. I, personally, have culled enough pipes that didn’t give me that experience that I know exactly what I look for to give me the best chance of getting those types of smokes. If the pipe is appealing to my sight and touch then that is a bonus. I think you just need to see for yourself what you like.

PS….to me it is no wonder why people like Ken Barnes, Bill Taylor, Rich Lewis, and the other long standing SUCCESSFUL pipe makers with the reputation of having pipes that deliver the above experience go/went through extremes to THOROUGHLY cure their briar (and also guard that process). Marketing hype for sure but even hype has its limitations if you can’t deliver the goods.

No! I absolutely refuse to try pipes myself.

 

[Deano]

Man. Having a sandblasted brain sounds rather unpleasant!

Its not so bad. Mine was sandblasted in the 70's. At least l think it was the 70'. Not sure.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"The second reason was oil curing was said to harden the notoriously soft Algerian briar".

Having worked with wood for several years, I find that very hard to believe. Think about it on a microscopic scale, how on earth can oil strengthen or harden the soft fibrous strands that make up wood?

I've always been a tad suspicious of oil curing as briar is notoriously very dense. How long would it take for oil to penetrate an entire root ball the size of a melon I wonder?

When I worked in a specialist woodshop we had a huge pressure chamber that looked like a giant torpedo that wood was stacked inside. The door was closed with about 24 huge bolts and a special liquid was injected into the now sealed chamber under incredible pressure once a vacuum had been created via a pump.

This was left running for about 6-8 hours for the timber to absorb the liquid.

Were these processes used for oil curing briar I wonder?

Regards,

Jay.

 

[Briar Lee]

"The second reason was oil curing was said to harden the notoriously soft Algerian briar".

Having worked with wood for several years, I find that very hard to believe. Think about it on a microscopic scale, how on earth can oil strengthen or harden the soft fibrous strands that make up wood?

I've always been a tad suspicious of oil curing as briar is notoriously very dense. How long would it take for oil to penetrate an entire root ball the size of a melon I wonder?

When I worked in a specialist woodshop we had a huge pressure chamber that looked like a giant torpedo that wood was stacked inside. The door was closed with about 24 huge bolts and a special liquid was injected into the now sealed chamber under incredible pressure once a vacuum had been created via a pump.

This was left running for about 6-8 hours for the timber to absorb the liquid.

Were these processes used for oil curing briar I wonder?

Regards,

Jay.

There was even a back story (or legend) of a Charles Goodyear type accidental discovery made by Dunhill of some oil cured Algerian briar set back in a boiler room being discovered and it being so blackened Dunhill tried sandblasting it, and thereby the Shell series was born.

I understand all briar must be boiled in water to cure. Somebody had to try oil with good results, years ago. I know an old hedge post will get so hard with age I can’t drive a steeple in one, so maybe oil curing somehow has a similar effect on briar burls.

Lee only advertised a “special curing process” that rendered a Lee sweet to break in and easy to cake.

That’s not mere puffing. Try a very fresh or new Lee, Briarlee, or Pipe Maker and find out. You can still taste briar during break in, but it’s sweet as a nickel Have a Sweet cigar.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

"The second reason was oil curing was said to harden the notoriously soft Algerian briar".

Having worked with wood for several years, I find that very hard to believe. Think about it on a microscopic scale, how on earth can oil strengthen or harden the soft fibrous strands that make up wood?

I've always been a tad suspicious of oil curing as briar is notoriously very dense. How long would it take for oil to penetrate an entire root ball the size of a melon I wonder?

When I worked in a specialist woodshop we had a huge pressure chamber that looked like a giant torpedo that wood was stacked inside. The door was closed with about 24 huge bolts and a special liquid was injected into the now sealed chamber under incredible pressure once a vacuum had been created via a pump.

This was left running for about 6-8 hours for the timber to absorb the liquid.

Were these processes used for oil curing briar I wonder?

Regards,

Jay.

I have no idea regarding the time frame. But, it might not take that long to absorb oil, even passively—if the root is cut up into pipe sized blocks, many of the tube/grain ends will be exposed (using the same pathways the root draws water).

 

[fireground_piper]

"The second reason was oil curing was said to harden the notoriously soft Algerian briar".

Having worked with wood for several years, I find that very hard to believe. Think about it on a microscopic scale, how on earth can oil strengthen or harden the soft fibrous strands that make up wood?

I've always been a tad suspicious of oil curing as briar is notoriously very dense. How long would it take for oil to penetrate an entire root ball the size of a melon I wonder?

When I worked in a specialist woodshop we had a huge pressure chamber that looked like a giant torpedo that wood was stacked inside. The door was closed with about 24 huge bolts and a special liquid was injected into the now sealed chamber under incredible pressure once a vacuum had been created via a pump.

This was left running for about 6-8 hours for the timber to absorb the liquid.

Were these processes used for oil curing briar I wonder?

Regards,

Jay.

Heated wood and oil will do it fine……even on a thick bowl you are penetrating what……half inch on average?

Also if it’s a curing oil, it will harden as it cures and stabilize the wood. Iv done it with pure walnut oil and it definitely changes the brittle properties of the briar once it’s cured.

 

[Briar Lee]

I have no idea regarding the time frame. But, it might not take that long to absorb oil, even passively—if the root is cut up into pipe sized blocks, many of the tube/grain ends will be exposed (using the same pathways the root draws water).

Think how hungry the first man was that caught a crawdaddy, and ate the thing.

Somehow he learned to boil them.

There had to be, the first briar pipe. If it wasn’t cured by boiling in water first and then dried out, it had to be the hottest, awful thing to smoke imaginable. It must have been pretty or else the proud owner would have only smoked one bowl.

This beautiful brand new Nording #1 was made with young, unaged briar.

They say you can’t really recall and remember pain.

They, haven’t broken in a new Nording.

View attachment 201619

 

[mawnansmiff]

I appreciate what you're s

I have no idea regarding the time frame. But, it might not take that long to absorb oil, even passively—if the root is cut up into pipe sized blocks, many of the tube/grain ends will be exposed (using the same pathways the root draws water).

I appreciate what you're saying chum but on another thread, many years ago, there was a discussion on how much tobacco juice penetrated a typical briar pipe through regular use over a long period.

Many folk put forward their thoughts & theories but one member actually cut open a very well smoked bowl just to show how the briar had barely absorbed any tobacco juice at all.

I'm still not convinced the oil curing actually penetrates the entire burl. As for strengthening soft wood, I just can't see that happening.

Regards,

Jay.

 

[Latakia Dave]

I’ve been making pipes for a couple years now and I’ve used Algerian, Albanian, Calabrian, Italian and Grecian briar.
I have noticed the Algerian briar is softer and blast’s better.
Of the 40 some pipes I’ve made so far, the only briar I have had problems with is the Grecian briar.
I’ve experienced a lot more pits and in one instance an extreme void in the Grecian briar.
As far as my experiences smoking all of these goes, they all smoke great, I don’t notice any difference in taste or quality of smoke between the different regions that the briar comes from.
I think the age/ cure time of the briar makes a difference. Older/ better cured briar tastes better than greener less cured briar.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

I appreciate what you're s

I appreciate what you're saying chum but on another thread, many years ago, there was a discussion on how much tobacco juice penetrated a typical briar pipe through regular use over a long period.

Many folk put forward their thoughts & theories but one member actually cut open a very well smoked bowl just to show how the briar had barely absorbed any tobacco juice at all.

I'm still not convinced the oil curing actually penetrates the entire burl. As for strengthening soft wood, I just can't see that happening.

Regards,

Jay.

I have no idea how much would get absorbed, if any. My thinking is the vertical grain we often see on pipes would not be a pathway for absorption because it’s the closed, long side of the tube/grain. The possible entry point would have to be the cut open end.

 

[milk]

I’ve been making pipes for a couple years now and I’ve used Algerian, Albanian, Calabrian, Italian and Grecian briar.
I have noticed the Algerian briar is softer and blast’s better.
Of the 40 some pipes I’ve made so far, the only briar I have had problems with is the Grecian briar.
I’ve experienced a lot more pits and in one instance an extreme void in the Grecian briar.
As far as my experiences smoking all of these goes, they all smoke great, I don’t notice any difference in taste or quality of smoke between the different regions that the briar comes from.
I think the age/ cure time of the briar makes a difference. Older/ better cured briar tastes better than greener less cured briar.

Fascinating.

 

[Briar Lee]

I’ve been making pipes for a couple years now and I’ve used Algerian, Albanian, Calabrian, Italian and Grecian briar.
I have noticed the Algerian briar is softer and blast’s better.
Of the 40 some pipes I’ve made so far, the only briar I have had problems with is the Grecian briar.
I’ve experienced a lot more pits and in one instance an extreme void in the Grecian briar.
As far as my experiences smoking all of these goes, they all smoke great, I don’t notice any difference in taste or quality of smoke between the different regions that the briar comes from.
I think the age/ cure time of the briar makes a difference. Older/ better cured briar tastes better than greener less cured briar.

Thanks so much for the insight of a man who’s actually stood in the arena:
——
Teddy Roosevelt 1910

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

——

There was a day over 70 years ago, long gone now, when a company that wanted to do factory scale pipe making could order genuine Algerian briar inspected by colonial French inspectors in Algeria.

Whatever Algerian briar today a pipe maker buys is pot luck, pay your money and take your chances.

This is what it looked like.

View attachment 201629View attachment 201630View attachment 201631

There won’t be any more, colonial French Algerian briar.