Blind Tasting: Red Virginia

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Sobrbiker

Lifer
Jan 7, 2023
3,940
51,281
Casa Grande, AZ
Hats off to @Sobrbiker on completing all six samples in record time. Sharp observations through and through!

Although Mr. Biker is already through the finish line, there’s plenty of time ahead for others. A few of our participants just got their samples in the mail today and the very last delivery will reach its destination tomorrow. If you are missing your samples, be sure to check your tracking info in the PMs.

It’s been a thrill reading everyone’s impressions so far and I love how every taster is bringing their own style to the challenge — both in terms of writing and smoking. There’s a lot in your approaches that I wouldn’t have thought of, back to back bowls with separate dry times for example. I’m learning new technique (and vocabulary) reading you all.
I just wanted to be sure I made the commitment, and still had a couple days’ leave left this week.
I did use a small pipe, and being an almost new meer some of the flavors may have been muted a touch. Samples 1 and 2 may have had some flavors I missed due to smoking within scent range of a smoker with ribs in it😆
I have another small pipe’s worth of each blend that I will smoke through broken in briar, but not sure when I’ll be able to dedicate time to each bowl. Notes are on my phone and I’ll update if I get different observations.
Thanks so much for doing this, and I am looking forward to everyone’s thoughts, and even more the big reveal!!
 
Dec 11, 2021
1,631
8,352
Fort Collins, CO
About half way through sample 2. The tin note on this one was much more vinegar/ketchup than the dark fruit bouquet that I got from sample one.

Smoking through the bowl, I’m getting a subtle sweetness, like a rich, dark BBQ sauce almost. There’s a “mustiness’ to the smoke, perhaps what is meant when others say they get a taste of “vegetation” maybe. A touch of the vinegar is coming through, but it’s not overwhelming by any means. There’s a hint of that dark fruit sweetness in there, with maybe a bread crumb or two in the mix as well

Another fine smoke, but I have sample one in the lead thus far. Looking forward to tomorrow’s smoke!
 

Mrs. Pickles

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 8, 2022
254
1,179
AZ, USA
@Mrs. Pickles, thank you for doing this! It takes a substantial amount of time and not insubstantial amount of money to run a tasting. It’s testament to your love of the pipe smoking pastime, and your appreciation of fellow leaf burners!
Hey hey! I wish we had you in the mix again, Woods.

This forum has given me a lot, am I’m happy to have the chance to pay a little of that forward.
 

Sandblast

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 10, 2023
209
3,181
Mendota Heights, Dakota Country, MN
My package arrived late last evening.
I've decided to "bloody" my unsmoked Edwards bent bulldog (purchased 2010) with 2 bowls of Red VA -- one of Christmas Cheer '06 and one of Wessex Red VA Flake ('13). I decided on this because I don't want to possibly contaminate Sample#1 with potentially a "burnt wood" taste, due to the pipe being unsmoked. Then, maybe this Thu thru Sun, I'll do the "experiment".
NOTE: I'm hoping none of my new Red VA Brothers will comment:
"C'mon, Sandblast, HURRY UP! Get your a$$ in gear!".

NOTE:
I'm thinking this type of "experiment" could be really interesting, again, with VaPer's.
An IDEA = Since Mrs. Pickles, generously, originated this "experiment" plus incurred the expense of supplying the tobaccos along with the costs for postage, I'd be definitely open to mailing her a VaPer. It could be a fun "experiment" .... timewise, maybe towards end of Summer or even kicking off Fall, if we all might be willing to supply a VaPer. In advance, we could all coordinate with Mrs. Pickles what we might offer so that all the samples would be different.

NOTE2:
Another IDEA I've had is that the "experimenting" might be interesting if we had to exclusively use a COB.
MY OFFER = (maybe getting a little ahead of things here), if any of my Red VA Brothers DON'T own a COB, I'm willing to purchase from Missouri Meerschaum a COB for them & have it mailed to their home. Two excellent COBS are the Natural Short Stop Corn Cob and the Eaton Corn Cob. Guessing everybody has at least one COB, but if not .... ?

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woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
12,649
20,181
SE PA USA
Hey hey! I wish we had you in the mix again, Woods.

This forum has given me a lot, am I’m happy to have the chance to pay a little of that forward.
I’ve been really busy with projects around the house, so I missed the post on Friday. Either way, I wouldn’t have time right now to do it justice. Plus, it’s a sauna here in SE PA. Not a pleasurable time to be sitting on the deck!
 

umbrella001

Can't Leave
Apr 8, 2022
325
8,442
Starting with sample #1:

The scent after opening the pouch was a beautiful, tart skinned fruit that matched the appearance of the crystal laden semi broken flakes. I kept having to take a whiff every few minutes during the last hour and a half of my shift because it reminded me of something I would eat and it made me hungry. I smoked this in a relatively new clay pipe that has only been used for a couple of other Virginia blends. Didn’t need very much dry time and after the first couple of charring lights the tobacco performed very well during the 50 minute smoke. What I really enjoyed about the first half of the bowl was the almost apple cider and mild baking spice like aroma that gradually grew in intensity. The sourness combined well with the deep sweetness of what I’m guessing is a very well aged leaf. The second half was equally interesting as the sugars carmelized and those autumnal spice/fruit flavors came through even more. This tobacco made me smile and was extremely satisfying. 3.5/4. I definitely don’t consider myself a super taster like some of the gentlemen here on the forums and hope to continue developing my palate. Looking forward to sample 2!
 

Butter Side Down

Can't Leave
Jun 2, 2023
313
3,375
Chicago
Sample 3


Tin note: More of a typical Virginia aroma than the first two. Light fermentation. Hay. Grass. Dark fruit. Got a blast of honey when the packet was first opened, but it dissipated quickly.


Cut: Mostly rubbed out flake with a few bits of broken flake. Cut seems “European” to me but I could be wrong. A little drier than the first two. Moisture level pretty much perfect smoking right out of the packet.


In the pipe: Nothing about this is really demanding my attention, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's boring. A good steady smoke. Which I guess means it might be a good choice for mindlessly puffing while you're doing something else. Exactly like I'm doing now. Typing occasional notes while watching Wimbledon. I'd put this in a class with something like Hamborger Veermaster if that means anything to anybody. Nearing the midpoint now. I'm not getting much sweetness from this one at all, and none of the other notes are singing to me. Full disclosure, I grew up in New Mexico and ate very spicy food two to three times a day pretty much every day for nearly 28 years, so my palate might not be the best for teasing out subtle blends. I'm having this with my morning coffee and it seems like that might have been a poor choice. The dark strong coffee is probably stepping on the more subtle flavors of this one. It would probably be better with something more neutral like water or unsweetened iced tea. Oh well, too late now. Final judgment, it's okay, but I doubt I'd buy more.

The further I get into this, the more I realize in retrospect how much I liked sample #1. I'm still thinking about it.
 

Butter Side Down

Can't Leave
Jun 2, 2023
313
3,375
Chicago
Sample 4

Tin note: Smells surprisingly like raisin bran. Faint boozy tinge in the background (maybe a rum casing?).

Cut: Medium thickness flake. Breaks into ribbons with barely any rubbing. No obvious binding agent. Based on the cut and the lack of a binder, I'd guess this one is blended by C&D.

In the pipe: Makes quite a lot of thick, chewy smoke. I'm having a tough time picking out individual notes, but the overall flavor is very dark. Earthy is pretty much the dominant tone. Not very sweet at all. A bit of a bitter herbal edge at times. If there is a casing, it's not coming through in the smoke. If I slow down to just taking teeny tiny sips, I get some florality, but it's not really enough of a reward to offset the relights necessary to maintain the pace. I don't know. I guess I can see why someone would like this, but as an OGS fan, I think we've gone to a point in VA flavors here that's darker than I personally enjoy. This one is a pass for me.

I have just enough left over to give this one another shot in a briar instead of a meer. Hard to work up the motivation though based on my current opinion. But if I do, and it turns it into a star, I'll report back.
 
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Butter Side Down

Can't Leave
Jun 2, 2023
313
3,375
Chicago
Ok, I'm giving #4 another chance in a briar now and it is an improvement. I chose a wide chambered pot (nearly an inch) that has been known to vastly change the experience of a tobacco because you can get so much of it burning at once.

It has softened it up and I'm getting a little bit of sweetness now, but still not quite enough for my tastes. And I definitely get what @Sobrbiker said about it having a tobacco-y taste which is a thing I also tend to like (DFK, DBE, Uhle's 00).

Unfortunately, while my opinion is raised, this one still doesn't clear the hurdle for me.
 

jbfrady

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 27, 2023
697
2,913
South Carolina
I figured I had to go for #1 next. This was largely the same in control as yesterday, with Alex and myself smoking it, him lighting up first so I could detect and comment on room note, and the only thing that really changed was the pipe I used. He still used a Scott's Burner, whereas I smoked it in my new-ish meer workhorse poker.

I'd accidentally spoiled myself by reading these other posts and seeing that people have assumed that number one is some kind of McClelland. I've only ever tried a few of their blends, but to be frank, I haven't enjoyed any of them. I didn't get any that famous ketchup note off any of them either, though.

Be that as it may, I sliced open this packet and breathed deeply. The raisin-esque notes were still there, but these raising were sour, if not pungent. The only war waged in my mind was whether to call this note that of Heinz 57, or A1 steak sauce. I decided it was 57, with maybe a smidge of Sweet Baby Ray's BBQ. Not my thing. And not especially reminiscent of Red Virginia, as the scent of tobacco was being suffocated by whatever lay within.

Alex gave it a whiff and professed his love at once, so I was slightly taken aback. "But," I said in protest, "it doesn't smell anything like tobacco." He agreed but he said that, at the same rate, maybe that was what he liked about it.

Sliding the contents from the pouch, we found a crumble flake. (This is what I call any flake cut from a standard crumble cake rather than a hot press plug.) That immediately scrimped American origin, as C&D reigns supreme in this market nowadays.

20240710_111003.jpg

The next thing we noticed... this shit was old. Not presidential old, mind you, but this blend had been around the block and had stories to tell and crystallization to prove it. Having sampled 4 and 3 first, this provided quite a change of pace.

We stuffed the contents into these two small pipes and set them aflame - him first, of course. In my opinion, this was the least pleasant room note so far. It wasn't awful, but at the same rate, it was nondescript, an adjective I always hate to employ. You could tell it was tobacco, but it didn't have the bready feel that I associate with Virginia tobacco. And while the note was nowhere near disagreeable, I wouldn't seek it out.

"Man," Alex said, "I really like this already." It made me eager to light up and I did. From the start, what I tasted was orange zest, with a mild kick of a spicier cider. As a man who raw ferments my own cider every week, you'd think I meant that in a positive vein, but in some ways I didn't. I still couldn't understand... where's the taste of tobacco? I guess I then understood how Greg Pease so often feels.

On the retro-hale... same thing. Orange, with a hint of mulling spices. I didn't detect ketchup, so maybe this isn't Mclelland. But still... where was the tobacco? Where was the Red Virginia? The longer I smoked, the more I got the feel I was smoking a Red VA, but even then, I felt like the primary (nay, the only component leaf) was its own backup dancer. How was that even possible??

"I like this so much better than yesterday's (#3)," Alex said. Despite myself, I was almost angry. "I think I'd give it a four out of five." Was I missing something? I didn't say a word and kept toking away. Soon he was out. A few minutes later, I was too.

He told me he wished he could've tried the same blend about five years ago, telling me he felt it was past its prime. But man, if he could've tasted it in his prime, maybe this kind of blend would've made him more into pipes than cigars. (His recent trend is the opposite.) Once again... was I crazy?

"I don't know," I said, shaking my head. "For me, this is a two out of five. Maybe a few years ago I'd have given it a three. But still... it's just a maybe."
 

Jbrewer2002

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 17, 2023
672
4,972
Somerset Ohio
Sample 2

Tin notes. Dark cherries, smoke essence with a small amount of vinegar. Taste of smoke, dark cherries and a little sweetness . 3.5 out of 4 star.



Sample 3

Tin notes. Hay and a light stewed fruit. Taste, the stewed fruit comes through more than the smell but there is a brightness to it. The over all flavor of this one is mild. 2 out of 4 stars.
 

Butter Side Down

Can't Leave
Jun 2, 2023
313
3,375
Chicago
Sample 5

Tin note: Of all the samples so far, the tin note of this one is probably the least exciting. A little vinegary, like samples 1 & 2, but without the depth or mouth-watering complexity. Doesn't mean anything really. I've smoked plenty of blends that smelled fantastic in the tin that were awful in the pipe and vice versa. So, we shall see...

Cut: Medium ribbon. Moisture level seems perfect for smoking.


In the pipe: This one started out a little dull, but it's growing on me as the bowl progresses. Medium body and flavor. Medium sweet. A little bit of spice. Not much complexity, but enough to keep things interesting. It reminds me a lot of Yorktown, which I smoke fairly regularly. And it also seems a little bit like sample 1 with the volume turned down halfway. I haven't had Sutliff 515 before, but I just looked it up and I believe @Sobrbiker is probably right on this one. This tastes like something that aims to appeal to McClelland fans. It don't think it hits that particular bulleye, but it's not totally wide of the mark either. And it stands on its own regardless. I'd certainly smoke this again, but I'm not sure it would knock Yorktown out of it's current place in the regular rotation. Of the samples so far, this one slips into third place for me behind sample 1 and sample 2.
 

Butter Side Down

Can't Leave
Jun 2, 2023
313
3,375
Chicago
I had enough of sample 5 left over to have another bowl. In a briar this time; the dunhill I use for yorktown. I think this is noticeably better in a briar. I get a little bit more of everything this has to offer. Doesn't change my rankings at all, but I do like it a little more. Weirdly, I'm also picking up a hint of something that tastes... artificial, I guess is about the closest word to what I'm trying to think of. Not like an artificial flavoring agent, more like, I don't know, PG maybe? Anyway it's not terrible and it doesn't detract too much but I'd like it better without it. Whatever it is.
 
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Sig

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 18, 2023
514
2,414
Western NY
You know as well as I that at least here, this time of year, dashboard stoving is always an option!
Ohhh, that one day 15 years ago when I left half a tin of Solani Silver Flake in my truck!!! It was almost a completely different blend.
Sinse then I have done this with several Virginia bulks I have.
Throw a tin of bulk VA#1 or Virginia Gentleman in the truck for a tasty treat. :)
 

Butter Side Down

Can't Leave
Jun 2, 2023
313
3,375
Chicago
Made it to the end!


Sample 6


Tin note: Really different from all the others. Pretty rustic. Is farm-esque a word? Probably not, but hopefully you know what I mean. Not like the animal smell you get driving through Hereford, TX. More like stacks of baled hay sitting in a barn on a hot day. Freshly turned soil. A bit of vegetal decay. Not an unpleasant aroma at all, but not one I'd describe as "yummy." Not getting any sugar or sweetness, and since I prefer VA's that lean sweet, I have to admit I don't have high hopes for this one.

Cut: Mostly rubbed out with a few small chunks of broken flake. Moisture level is once again, pretty much perfect. May need 10-15 minutes of air, but that's it. Hats off to Andrew (Mrs. Pickles) for doing a really great job of getting these in a ready-to-smoke state before packing them up which is much appreciated.

In the pipe: Given how frequently it happens, I think god must find it endlessly amusing to point out when I'm wrong. In this case, there's nothing to be sad or annoyed about because despite my low expectations, this one is turning out to be a bit of a pleasant surprise. The vegetal and earthy notes from the tin aroma are coming through in the smoke, but without any bitterness I usually get from those flavors. There's not a ton of sweetness, but there is enough to satisfy me. This one seems very much in the same “happy medium” vein as sample #5, but of the two, I prefer this one. This might actually give Yorktown a run for it's money. Smokes a little hot, but is remaining dry through the mid bowl nonetheless. The flavor is robust enough to stand up to coffee. Or how I have my coffee anyway; very dark, very strong, but with loads of cream and a little sugar. I like most burleys with my coffee, but very few VA's. A nice little bonus point for this one. It's remaining good into the heel with not much changing except the sweetness is getting a little darker in tone. Yeah, I like this. I'll be interested to find out what it is.
 

Butter Side Down

Can't Leave
Jun 2, 2023
313
3,375
Chicago
Final ranking in order of most liked to least, rated on a 5 point scale
Sample 1 => 5.0 (I still can't stop thinking about it!)
Sample 2 => 4.5 (Some minor nit picks, but still excellent)
Sample 6 => 4.0 (Very, very good)
Sample 5 => 3.5 (Good)
Sample 3 => 3.0 (Not amazing, not terrible)
Sample 4 => 2.0 (Fine, but not for me)

Thanks to @Mrs. Pickles for organizing, doing such a great job with this, and for allowing me to participate!

I look forward to seeing everybody else's impressions.
 
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Jbrewer2002

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 17, 2023
672
4,972
Somerset Ohio
Sample 4

Tin notes. The plums and stewed fruit is strong with this one along with a mild barnyard sent. Taste of stewed fruit, gram crackers and slight tart. The sweetness is higher than the first 3 for me. I’m enjoying this one a lot. 4 out of 4 stars. So far I’m ranking from favorite to least is sample 4, 2, 1, 3.