BIN LADEN
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Very eloquent and persuasive essay, and a viewpoint that cannot and indeed must not be discounted. The psychological and moral aspects to which Mr. Joseph infers are idealistic, and again very valid and quite correct... But, when an ideology that's sole intent is to eradicate even one's right to believe as he does, must be stopped.
One other point; to my mind Mr. Joseph's attempt to equate automobile fatalities and medically documented causes of death can be legitimately equated to the evil that is the scourge of terrorism rings somewhat hollow and is a stretch I cannot accept.
The first thought I had upon reading the essay was a statistical fact that may have escaped many peoples notice... According to our nations records, no one has died of natural causes or old age since the late 1940's...
Thank you Hobie for that essay... it was excellent, correct, but IMHO unrealistic in these troubled times. Jihadist just don't see the world through our eyes.
One other point; to my mind Mr. Joseph's attempt to equate automobile fatalities and medically documented causes of death can be legitimately equated to the evil that is the scourge of terrorism rings somewhat hollow and is a stretch I cannot accept.
The first thought I had upon reading the essay was a statistical fact that may have escaped many peoples notice... According to our nations records, no one has died of natural causes or old age since the late 1940's...
Thank you Hobie for that essay... it was excellent, correct, but IMHO unrealistic in these troubled times. Jihadist just don't see the world through our eyes.
Thank you hobie, that spiel represents my opinion 100%, and while it may be idealistic, aren't we all closet philosophers?
I for one will be celebrating the hell out of the death of this man for killing the some thousand Americans on 9/11, and the no telling how many innocent Muslims. How is it sick to wish justice on a person that has done unbelievably sick things to human beings. I personally find it sick that people have more compassion for the evil people in the world than the innocent people that have died at the hands of men like Usama. Why the hell would we taze the man when he would rather place his wife in front of him as a human shield than take what is coming to him. That right there alone shows the kind of man he is; just a sick bastard that needed to be rid of.
Like my new signature line:
"Does a culture based on Separation and Competition, of scientific sophistication and medieval religion, offer happiness even as it ravishes the Earth that sustains it?"
This seperation and the worlds inablility to treat each other with nothing less than the love of a true family member, is the problem. Society brainwashes each generation into thinking that they are vastly superior to one another, nation against nation, brother against brother, all for the sake of being the "winner", which is the Illusion of Superiority.
Like Immigration, Americans always want to eliminate all foreigners from entering this country because it's "ours" and that they are going to take something away from us. But if you have that person at the Border and all of a sudden you are told that it is actually your Mother that you never knew you had(just an example), are you going to turn her away, or throw her in jail? Or are you going to treat her like your Mother with Love and Compassion?
Metaphysics tells us we are all one, all came from the same burst of Energy, and everytime I hear of a celebration of someones killing, or how Americans are so Superior to the rest of the World, it pains me deeply. You just don't get it, you only think in terms of hatred, revenge, retaliation, and false pride. There are hundreds of quotes like the one in the article above about Love, but until a world consciousness is changed towards a loving, compassionate society, things will only get worse. And that starts with each one of us, starting with each comment that condones killing each other. So lets embrace the concept of Continuous Improvement and Unconditional Love towards each other. It starts with the next post you make. I'm gonna start by making this my last post on this subject. :nana:
I've got my Extra Heavy Duty flame suit on, so fire away. But I really think this discussion will last to eternity if we let it. The only thing I'm gonna fire up now is my pipe. :
:....might need to drink too to get myself calmed down. :rofl:
"Does a culture based on Separation and Competition, of scientific sophistication and medieval religion, offer happiness even as it ravishes the Earth that sustains it?"
This seperation and the worlds inablility to treat each other with nothing less than the love of a true family member, is the problem. Society brainwashes each generation into thinking that they are vastly superior to one another, nation against nation, brother against brother, all for the sake of being the "winner", which is the Illusion of Superiority.
Like Immigration, Americans always want to eliminate all foreigners from entering this country because it's "ours" and that they are going to take something away from us. But if you have that person at the Border and all of a sudden you are told that it is actually your Mother that you never knew you had(just an example), are you going to turn her away, or throw her in jail? Or are you going to treat her like your Mother with Love and Compassion?
Metaphysics tells us we are all one, all came from the same burst of Energy, and everytime I hear of a celebration of someones killing, or how Americans are so Superior to the rest of the World, it pains me deeply. You just don't get it, you only think in terms of hatred, revenge, retaliation, and false pride. There are hundreds of quotes like the one in the article above about Love, but until a world consciousness is changed towards a loving, compassionate society, things will only get worse. And that starts with each one of us, starting with each comment that condones killing each other. So lets embrace the concept of Continuous Improvement and Unconditional Love towards each other. It starts with the next post you make. I'm gonna start by making this my last post on this subject. :nana:
I've got my Extra Heavy Duty flame suit on, so fire away. But I really think this discussion will last to eternity if we let it. The only thing I'm gonna fire up now is my pipe. :
:....might need to drink too to get myself calmed down. :rofl:
I also was going to stay out of this one as most of my political views clash with most other peoples views.
I am not going to get into the whole discussion and debate, but I do want to say one thing.
I am tired of people saying that Bin Laden was murdered. Like someone walked up to him and pulled the trigger while he was doing nothing and in cold blood.
According to the government there was a fire fight. During a fire fight the other side is firing as well, hence the term fight. Does anyone really think that the SEAL team just walked in and opened fire without any retaliation from the other side?
He was not murdered. The people who were killed in the 9/11 attacks that were ordered by Bin Laden were murdered. They did nothing to deserve to die.
Bin Laden however has done a great many things, to many more people than just Americans and the 9/11 attacks, to deserve to die. Whether it was in the war zone or in a court, what difference does it make. I guess if he would have been captured and tried and put to death, people would still say that he was murdered :roll: .
Has anyone took the time to stop and think what would have happened had he been captured instead of killed? I am sure there would have been a lot of terrorists attacking things and taking prisoners trying to bargain for his release. Do not forget about all of the planes that were high-jacked in the 1980's by terrorist that were trying to get their leaders and allies released from governments custody.
Unfortunately war brings death. He started the war by attacking civilians, so he brought it on himself. Too bad that it took so long to catch him. Remember that he was a MASS MURDERER.
If there was a murderer running around the streets of your city and the police were trying to catch him, and when they finally caught up with him, he pulled a gun on them and the police fired and killed him, would you say that the police murdered the killer? It is the same thing in this case but on a grander scale.
As far as people celebrating his death, well that is debatable. Look at it this way; since the 9/11 attacks the US has been in a downward spiral. Here are just a few things that have happened since 9/11.
Right after the attacks there was mass paranoia and fear.
It seems that for years there were always elevated terror alerts.
A war was started.
Threatening videos that were made by Bin Laden and sent to news networks.
Gas prices have reached astronomical highs in the US.
The economy is worse than it ever has been.
The unemployment rates are the highest that they have ever been.
You are now practically strip searched when you get on a plane.
The seemingly never ending war continues.
Now did Bin Laden and the 9/11 attacks cause all of these things to happen? Who knows. But it was a great contributor to it and was the first domino that fell. If we would have not been at war for 10 years, maybe the economy and a lot of the other things would be a lot better. Bin Laden changed the face and attitude of America and the world. Maybe that is why people celebrated his death.
Please stop saying that he was murdered. If you want to feel bad for someone, feel bad for all of the soldiers that have died during a war that was started by the man who people are saying was murdered.
I am not going to get into the whole discussion and debate, but I do want to say one thing.
I am tired of people saying that Bin Laden was murdered. Like someone walked up to him and pulled the trigger while he was doing nothing and in cold blood.
According to the government there was a fire fight. During a fire fight the other side is firing as well, hence the term fight. Does anyone really think that the SEAL team just walked in and opened fire without any retaliation from the other side?
He was not murdered. The people who were killed in the 9/11 attacks that were ordered by Bin Laden were murdered. They did nothing to deserve to die.
Bin Laden however has done a great many things, to many more people than just Americans and the 9/11 attacks, to deserve to die. Whether it was in the war zone or in a court, what difference does it make. I guess if he would have been captured and tried and put to death, people would still say that he was murdered :roll: .
Has anyone took the time to stop and think what would have happened had he been captured instead of killed? I am sure there would have been a lot of terrorists attacking things and taking prisoners trying to bargain for his release. Do not forget about all of the planes that were high-jacked in the 1980's by terrorist that were trying to get their leaders and allies released from governments custody.
Unfortunately war brings death. He started the war by attacking civilians, so he brought it on himself. Too bad that it took so long to catch him. Remember that he was a MASS MURDERER.
If there was a murderer running around the streets of your city and the police were trying to catch him, and when they finally caught up with him, he pulled a gun on them and the police fired and killed him, would you say that the police murdered the killer? It is the same thing in this case but on a grander scale.
As far as people celebrating his death, well that is debatable. Look at it this way; since the 9/11 attacks the US has been in a downward spiral. Here are just a few things that have happened since 9/11.
Right after the attacks there was mass paranoia and fear.
It seems that for years there were always elevated terror alerts.
A war was started.
Threatening videos that were made by Bin Laden and sent to news networks.
Gas prices have reached astronomical highs in the US.
The economy is worse than it ever has been.
The unemployment rates are the highest that they have ever been.
You are now practically strip searched when you get on a plane.
The seemingly never ending war continues.
Now did Bin Laden and the 9/11 attacks cause all of these things to happen? Who knows. But it was a great contributor to it and was the first domino that fell. If we would have not been at war for 10 years, maybe the economy and a lot of the other things would be a lot better. Bin Laden changed the face and attitude of America and the world. Maybe that is why people celebrated his death.
Please stop saying that he was murdered. If you want to feel bad for someone, feel bad for all of the soldiers that have died during a war that was started by the man who people are saying was murdered.
I SAY AMEN!! Well stated Bob....I too am through with this thread... but in parting I must say.. Geeze Hobie.. we have more immigrants in this country than can be imagined...our country was built on immigration and we still bring in more immigrants than most any other country in the world!!!!
No one can accuse us of being a limited group! We range from altruistic joy bobbing love spreaders through revenge loving pro death penalty supporters! The PM 
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