Article On "The Myth of Brand and Maker in Pipesmoking" Good Read

[rx2man]

There is such a thing as good briar. When I cut and drill a pipe the block gives off a sweet smell. That being said I have not had a "bad" piece of briar. Most of my briar comes from Vermont Freehand. I think he has 2 suppliers. The wood is always clean and a very light in color. Some other wood I have picked up is much darker, I have not cut it so do not know if it gives off a sweet smell. How this relates to a brand.....I dont know that it does. I think there are too many variables at play, supplier changes, age and location of briar etc.

 

[pitchfork]

cosmic, I'll grant you the importance of treating the briar (drying, aging, boiling, etc.), but all that soil and climate terroir stuff that Hanna talks about? No way. That stuff's for grapes, not little cups of wood to hold burning tobacco.
BTW, what does briar taste like?

 

[settersbrace]

The only way this argument will ever get settled is to do exactly what Fred has suggested in his piece. Conduct a rigidly adhered to double blind taste test. It would be an awesome event to stage at one of the big shows I would think. It'd take some carefully thought out planning but I personally think the results would be shocking.

 

[pitchfork]

settersbrace, that's a great suggestion. I bet Hanna himself would be interested. Maybe for Chicago 2015...? Seriously, that's a great idea -- if anyone knows Hanna or the organizers, it would be really interesting to test these ideas in some way.

 

[numbersix]

There is such a thing as good briar.

+1
That's my feeling as well. I don't know if there are certain areas that grow "better" briar, or if it's simply the luck of the draw (pun intended), but I've had bad tasting briar and good tasting briar and the difference seemed to have little to do with the craftsmanship or even the curing (tho both play a role in the overall enjoyment of the smoke).
I think that's why some pipes seem to handle VAs or whatever better than others. I am not convinced it's the shape so much as the briar; but as always, this is just my current opinion, subject to change as more info or my experience expands. ::

 

[settersbrace]

Pitchfork,
Some of the problems that would have to adressed would be choosing a method that would prohibit the blindfolded subject from possibly identifing the pipe via the button, the stem or the feel of the pipe shape. These are all in Fred's essay. I would think that the contest would have to challenge ALL of the pipe makers involved to use the same stem and the pipes would have to mounted somehow to make it hands free and hands off for the smoker. An attendant would have to be on the other side of the physical barrier to tend the bowl. The drilling and engineering would still be in play for the pipe makers but the button would have to be generic in nature since some high grades have distinct shaping and mouth feel. Personally, I'd love to see it happen. I'm not so sure that the rest of the pipe world would embrace such a "contest" so readily though.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The ultimate problem with any test would be defining what "good" is. Everyone is different, with a different set of aesthetic values. Some people like Stephen King, some people detest it. Some people like bluegrass, some detest it. Some people like strawberries, some detest them, etc... There is no one thing that the entire world can agree upon as a universal "good." This is why we can trade off a pipe that we think is a total clunker piss pot of a pipe, and another will make it the prize of their rotation. Lakelands trigger my gag reflex, but there are a ton of people who prize it as their favorite tobacco flavoring. Some can't smoke a particular pipe without it gurgling, but yet someone else can smoke it just fine without ever a gurg. No one woman will the whole world agree upon as being the icon of beauty. How on earth could we all agree upon what pipe is better than another? There's always that one guy who loves the taste of green yucky gurgly rattletrap briar, and I think this is what has kept Peterson in business for so long, ha ha.
"De gustibus non est disputandum"

 

[pitchfork]

There's always that one guy who loves the taste of green yucky gurgly rattletrap briar, and I think this is what has kept Peterson in business for so long, ha ha.

Zing!
"Good" is subjective, but I'd be curious if the same smoker would say "wow, this block tastes delish and this here block tastes like hot air" or whatever. The test wouldn't be about defining "good," but would people notice differences that could at least be articulated.
Here's an idea, get three types of briar, one each from Spain, Italy and Greece, say, especially if the briar was grown in different soils/climates. So have three different types of "pipe" (i.e., a block with two holes and a plastic straw). Would there be noticeable differences? I wonder. Oh yeah, you'd have to have the same processor cure the briar blocks the same way. OK, now we're talking at least a year or two of lead time.
But wouldn't it be worth testing? There's all kinds of folklore about Algerian briar vs. Greek, etc. Do they reall taste different? I'm obviously skeptical.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Heck, it would be even easier now a days. A CNC cutter can carve an exact duplicate of a pipe that someone deems appropriate for the experiment. There would be no difference in the buttons or stems, etc. It would be interesting.
The problem would come in the labrats smokers and maybe the tobaccos. Do you have a pipe that you have always ALWAYS gotten a perfect smoke from? Mood, time of day, blend, what I had for dinner, what I drank, what I had previously smoked, etc.. all come into play on my aesthetic of the smoking experience. Some days I love a particular flake, and the next it seems to be impossible to get any taste out of it. Same with pipes, for me. I think I am more aware of what I don't like than what I love the most, as far as smoking goes.
As much as I love discussing this stuff, I am also aware that there are no definite answers. But, a test would be interesting. Someone else probably said this before me, because I'm not all that smart, but we don't smoke pipes; we use pipes to smoke tobaccos.

 

[numbersix]

Here's an idea, get three types of briar, one each from Spain, Italy and Greece, say, especially if the briar was grown in different soils/climates. So have three different types of "pipe" (i.e., a block with two holes and a plastic straw). Would there be noticeable differences? I wonder. Oh yeah, you'd have to have the same processor cure the briar blocks the same way. OK, now we're talking at least a year or two of lead time.

I recall reading that during WWII (I believe this was over at Pipedia), some American pipe makers couldn't get the quality imported briar they usually got and had to settle for an inferior briar from a location well known for producing mediocre briar (I cannot recall what area this was).
If this is accurate, then it would make a case that different areas produce better tasting briar (even with taste being subjective).
I think it may be comparable to wine producing regions. Some areas are known for producing better tasting wines than others - mainly due to climate and soil conditions. So why wouldn't the same rules apply to briar?
I think the tricky part to all of this is when we're dealing with a natural product, you cannot expect consistency. Just like certain areas in Tuscany produce wines that are exceptional some years and just "okay" other years. Now I admit proving this point may be close to impossible since conditions vary every year, but if we compare it to other natural products, I think we can safely assume the same rules should apply to briar.

 

[murf]

Very interesting discussion here. I would just like to re-iterate one point that Hanna made:

Why do Some Chunks of Briar Smoke Better than Others?
This is a perennial question among pipe smokers and collectors and I would like to address it, not to achieve a final answer but to suggest a new avenue of approach. First of all, let us assume in this discussion that the briar pipes in question have proper drilling and correct engineering, and the briar itself is well cured, whether by oil, air, or kiln drying

In order to compare one variable ie. briar quality, everything else needs to be made equal. It was brought up several times that "proper engineering" is more important for smoking quality. This is true, in my opinion, but Hanna was saying that all other things held equal briar quality will matter. This isn't to say that proper engineering is less important than briar quality.
I'm of the school of thought that the smoker is the biggest and most important variable, and it is better to spend time on finding out what kind of pipe fits the INDIVIDUAL. It was in Newcombe's book that he said something to the effect of "a draught hole of X mm is best because it smokes dry." The important thing to keep in mind is that the specific size is what fits HIM best, not what fits everyone best.
The old cajun hit the nail on the head with a thread a few months ago. He said to appreciate what you got and buy within your price range. Don't go after a brand because someone posted a pic of an expensive and beautiful pipe and raves about how great it smokes.
Continuing along those lines, if you gave a brand new smoker a Dunhill or a Castello or whatever widely recognized quality pipe, does that mean that it will smoke great? Maybe, but it probably depends on the smoker.
One last thought: branding doesn't always mean quality. I have so many patients/athletes who have foot/ankle/knee issues. I look at their shoes. If they're wearing Nikes or Adidas or Reebok, I tell them they probably spent their money for the logo, and not the shoe. The good running shoes (asics, saucony, new balance) I hardly ever see advertised, because they don't NEED it. But look at a group of well-seasoned runners, and those are the shoes you will see on their feet. Unless they got those weird toe shoe/glove things. :crazy:

 

[settersbrace]

Cosmic, Six and Murf have it dialed in pretty good I'd say. My reading has always steered me towards Algerian briar as being the most desirable of all. Perhaps having blueprinted pipes made in pairs from the same large blocks and from all of the available regions would raise the stakes in a blind study. 2 seperate groups smoking one of each piece from each region and maker. Then compare the overall results. I think it would prove interesting if nothing else.

 

[pitchfork]

six wrote:

I think it may be comparable to wine producing regions. Some areas are known for producing better tasting wines than others - mainly due to climate and soil conditions. So why wouldn't the same rules apply to briar?

This is the part that I think is exactly wrong -- that the origin of the wood itself (location, climate, etc.) impacts the flavor of the smoke in any noticeable way. On what basis, other than analogy with grapes and tobacco, do we make this assumption? It's not like you're drinking the briar or eating it. And briar, as we know (hold onto your hats) doesn't breathe or drink -- it's virtually air and water tight. When you consider that most people keep a layer of cake in the bowl, anyway, what role is left for briar?
I mean, maybe it does impact flavor in some way, but I've yet to hear a plausible explanation - or any explanation, really. I'm open minded. :lol:

 

[numbersix]

This is the part that I think is exactly wrong -- that the origin of the wood itself (location, climate, etc.) impacts the flavor of the smoke in any noticeable way. On what basis, other than analogy with grapes and tobacco, do we make this assumption? It's not like you're drinking the briar or eating it. And briar, as we know (hold onto your hats) doesn't breathe or drink -- it's virtually air and water tight. When you consider that most people keep a layer of cake in the bowl, anyway, what role is left for briar?
I mean, maybe it does impact flavor in some way, but I've yet to hear a plausible explanation - or any explanation, really. I'm open minded.

Fair enough. I am no scientist so I cannot truly prove my argument but I will give it a go anyway. :nana:
If soil and climate can affect the flavor of a grape, then to my way of thinking, that "difference" would carry through to the vines, and to the roots, i.e. that it would affect the entire plant.
Now I do recall some on this forum arguing that briar doesn't "breathe" but I still don't buy that argument. IIRC, the argument was on a technical basis. But if briar doesn't breath, then IMO it must be said that wood in general doesn't breathe.
Briar expands during smoking, so at least in my limited way of thinking, that's breathing. Also, I don't leave a thick layer of cake, but even if so - I don't think cake takes on the properties of something like ceramic, where no flavor can come through.
Ultimately, I've had pipes that simply didn't taste right when smoking (and many on this forum have said the same). In some cases I was able to pin it down to the stain or shellac - but on others I am convinced it was the briar.
In any case, that's my opinion and I am sticking to it (until proven otherwise)! ::

 

[pitchfork]

Just to pile on, Rad Davis wrote:
I personally don't think that wood breathes in the way that many pipes smokers think. Sure, it will absorb and lose moisture with changes in the ambient humidity, but as far as air passing through the walls of a pipe? I don't think so.
...
Take a scrap of briar and leave it soaking in a bowl of water for a few hours, and then saw it in half on your bandsaw.
You might be surprised at how little water has been absorbed.
This first pic is of one of my pipes that had been smoked for about a year, before the owner burned a hole in the bottom trying to light a bowl of ash:

This one is an old leather wrapped piece of junk that someone gave me. It has been smoked a *lot*.

If you look closely, you can see that the only coloring of the interior wood is from scorching. Check the shanks, and you can see that no color from smoking has been absorbed at all.
Also, take note of how deep the stain on the first pipe penetrated. It was stained with red mahogany.

 

[numbersix]

Just to pile on

lol!

But as far as air passing through the walls of a pipe? I don't think so.

I can agree with this - that to my way of thinking isn't the definition of "breathing" when it comes to wood. But I will admit, I am not a wood worker.
But this also doesn't mean that the flavor of the briar wouldn't come across while smoking. I know when I smoke a meer vs a briar, there is a big difference in the flavor of the tobacco.
So can we agree that briar does affect the taste - yes?

If you look closely, you can see that the only coloring of the interior wood is from scorching. Check the shanks, and you can see that no color from smoking has been absorbed at all.

If you ask me, I would bet that that piece of briar was a lot lighter the day it was carved. I think the really dark edges are from heat and the color of the rest is from smoke.

 

[pitchfork]

I know when I smoke a meer vs a briar, there is a big difference in the flavor of the tobacco.

This is interesting. Can you describe the differences? Even still, I wonder if different pieces of briar taste different from eachother because of their growing conditions.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Pitchfork, do you really mean to say that you cannot smell nor taste briar? The briar is a large portion of my enjoyment in pipes. On days I can't smoke, I sometimes will just sniff my pipes to get their briarness. Mmmm

 

[pitchfork]

cosmic, seriously, what does briar smell like? My briar pipes smell, variously, like burley, latakia, VAs, St. Bruno/Warrior Plug, (those godawful :mrgreen: ) Lakeland tobaccos, etc.
My new pipes have smelled, variously, like plastic, something sulphury, new leather, the inside of some guy's wood shop, acrid stain(?), etc.
I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just don't know what "briar" tastes or smells like.

 

[numbersix]

This is interesting. Can you describe the differences?

Have you not smoked a meer before? The difference between the two is very apparent.
I will also admit that for the most part, if I puffed on my briars blindfolded, I wouldn't be able to distinguish which one was which - all except for 2. I have two briars that add a distinctive taste and I am quite certain I could spot them and identify the pipe.