Article On "The Myth of Brand and Maker in Pipesmoking" Good Read
- Thread starter rx2man
- Start date
- Status
As for the taste of briar, while each pipe is different slightly, it is a cross between leather and aged wood. My favorite has almost a basamati rice like aroma, buttery woodsy. The one green tasting pipe that I had is like freshly cut pine. When I say "like" I mean similar, not exact, as briar has a very unique aroma. The initial aroma is how I pair pipes to blends, for myself.
My thinner walled pipes seem to vibrate with more aroma than my thicker walled pipes, and this may slightly be why I am partial to the thinner walls.
I have two Becker briars, and one has no aroma at all. I tend to grab it less often. And, I have finally put my meer in a drawer as I never use it at all. I know some prefer not to taste the briar, but this is a large part of my enjoyment in the hobby.
My thinner walled pipes seem to vibrate with more aroma than my thicker walled pipes, and this may slightly be why I am partial to the thinner walls.
I have two Becker briars, and one has no aroma at all. I tend to grab it less often. And, I have finally put my meer in a drawer as I never use it at all. I know some prefer not to taste the briar, but this is a large part of my enjoyment in the hobby.
Yes, they are "neutral" in that they don't impart a sweetness, but technically there is a faint flavor to it - if you want to call it that.
And just like pearwood and olive wood imparts a flavor, so does briar. And being a natural product, some are going to be more sweet than others (IMO).
When I am breaking in a new pipe that has no bowl coating I can definitely taste the briar for the first half dozen or so smokes. To my tastes it tastes like wood( imagine that) but if someone were to ask me if it came from Italy or Greece, I could never tell you.
I think the soil and climate definitely makes a difference in the flavor of briar but I don't think your average smoker could ever tell what country the pipe came from. It is not like cigars where I can tell you if a cigar came from Cuba or Nicaragua in the first few puffs. My taste buds are pretty good but I don't know of anyone who can tell you by taste where a pipe came from.
I believe that well cured, good briar makes a big difference in how a pipe performs as a pipe made from green crappy briar will taste like it.
I think the soil and climate definitely makes a difference in the flavor of briar but I don't think your average smoker could ever tell what country the pipe came from. It is not like cigars where I can tell you if a cigar came from Cuba or Nicaragua in the first few puffs. My taste buds are pretty good but I don't know of anyone who can tell you by taste where a pipe came from.
I believe that well cured, good briar makes a big difference in how a pipe performs as a pipe made from green crappy briar will taste like it.
These days, I'd rather drink a tall warm glass of spit than have to discuss a Fred Hannah excerpt. :
:
:
Boy! Was I in a mood when I posted to this thread!
This is one of those topics that will always bring on a spirited debate. If one applies the same reasoning to pipes that is applied to other products, the logic roughly goes like this:
Brand is an indicator but not a guarantee of quality. We look to certain brands of maker because they are perceived to represent an understood level of quality. Sometimes that perception is based on empirical evidence, maybe tests performed by independent labs, sometimes based on customer satisfaction, or a record of performance.
In other cases it's more a perception based primarily on advertising claims, paid endorsements, and marketing, offering average goods as premium goods. It's illusion VS reality. Illusion is very effective. Otherwise people wouldn't be spending billions of dollars on advertising and marketing that is essentially spin.
Even where the maker's practice is of the highest level of accepted practice, duds and lemons occasionally occur.
The quality of materials used is the foundation, followed by the quality of processing. Even with high quality processing, poor quality materials set a limit on the possible result. With organic materials there is always variation that can't be foreseen, nor entirely removed from the process.
In the pipe community there is a love of myths that is an essential part of the culture. There's the belief that 100 year old briar is superior. Some believe that briar from one region is superior. Others believe that one maker is superior to all others. Some believe that price equals performance. There is a seemingly endless number of heartfelt beliefs that are largely not provable.
It's illogical and emotional and appealing. Think of it as the romance of pipe smoking. So we continue to have and enjoy debates about pipes, like this one.
This is one of those topics that will always bring on a spirited debate. If one applies the same reasoning to pipes that is applied to other products, the logic roughly goes like this:
Brand is an indicator but not a guarantee of quality. We look to certain brands of maker because they are perceived to represent an understood level of quality. Sometimes that perception is based on empirical evidence, maybe tests performed by independent labs, sometimes based on customer satisfaction, or a record of performance.
In other cases it's more a perception based primarily on advertising claims, paid endorsements, and marketing, offering average goods as premium goods. It's illusion VS reality. Illusion is very effective. Otherwise people wouldn't be spending billions of dollars on advertising and marketing that is essentially spin.
Even where the maker's practice is of the highest level of accepted practice, duds and lemons occasionally occur.
The quality of materials used is the foundation, followed by the quality of processing. Even with high quality processing, poor quality materials set a limit on the possible result. With organic materials there is always variation that can't be foreseen, nor entirely removed from the process.
In the pipe community there is a love of myths that is an essential part of the culture. There's the belief that 100 year old briar is superior. Some believe that briar from one region is superior. Others believe that one maker is superior to all others. Some believe that price equals performance. There is a seemingly endless number of heartfelt beliefs that are largely not provable.
It's illogical and emotional and appealing. Think of it as the romance of pipe smoking. So we continue to have and enjoy debates about pipes, like this one.
I tend to agree with Fred.. At this point in my life I have the money to spend a bit more on pipes than may be wise. I smoke maybe 1 bowl a day so I don't need too many and I want those few to be outstanding smokers.
I have thinned the heard and added a few. The ones I have added would be considered high endy. An Eltang, estate, two Castellos , two new Tinskys and a Heeschen coming from Pipestud. SO far, not counting the Heeschen, all of them are superb smokers or I would have sold them.
But my keepers are interesting, 3 are at least 20 years old and none cost me more then 35.00. A Wiley second, a Bjarne churchwarden and a Bjarne Nielsen bulldog. All of these pipes smoke basically the same, GREAT.
The difference is, I went through a lot of inexpensive pipes to find those and so far, every expensive pipe has been a winner. Including my only Dunhill which is an 05 prince shell with a very pretty ring grain.
If you are young, go for it. Buy as many inexpensive pipes as you want to find the great smokers. Just be aware that 10 50.00 pipes cost the same as one 500.00 pipe. I am now old, I'll go high end from here on out. Either new, or estate
I have thinned the heard and added a few. The ones I have added would be considered high endy. An Eltang, estate, two Castellos , two new Tinskys and a Heeschen coming from Pipestud. SO far, not counting the Heeschen, all of them are superb smokers or I would have sold them.
But my keepers are interesting, 3 are at least 20 years old and none cost me more then 35.00. A Wiley second, a Bjarne churchwarden and a Bjarne Nielsen bulldog. All of these pipes smoke basically the same, GREAT.
The difference is, I went through a lot of inexpensive pipes to find those and so far, every expensive pipe has been a winner. Including my only Dunhill which is an 05 prince shell with a very pretty ring grain.
If you are young, go for it. Buy as many inexpensive pipes as you want to find the great smokers. Just be aware that 10 50.00 pipes cost the same as one 500.00 pipe. I am now old, I'll go high end from here on out. Either new, or estate
A word about briar that I didn't see discussed, but then I skimmed a few posts: It must breathe, or at least some organic process goes on that, over time, be it hours or days of rest, produces a better smoke. Just because it doesn't pass water (pun noted) doesn't mean it doesn't allow air through.
And Sable noted that the age of one end of the pipe might exceed the other by decades. The growing conditions vary not just area to area, soil to soil, but over time, some decades get more rain than others, more or less sun, wind and so forth, all affecting the density of the root and the pattern of the grain.
I have a number of basket pipes that are fine smokers, a couple of "name" pipes that are not, and a lot in between $15 (50 years ago) and $300, both new and estate, all of which are good smokers.
And Sable noted that the age of one end of the pipe might exceed the other by decades. The growing conditions vary not just area to area, soil to soil, but over time, some decades get more rain than others, more or less sun, wind and so forth, all affecting the density of the root and the pattern of the grain.
I have a number of basket pipes that are fine smokers, a couple of "name" pipes that are not, and a lot in between $15 (50 years ago) and $300, both new and estate, all of which are good smokers.
The only constructive thing I can add to this thread is that among pipes from a dozen manufacturers, mostly under $200, Briarworks is the only company I've seen make a high quality stem.
And the engineering in a Missouri Meerschaum stem nearly perfect, if you don't mind a soft and thick button.
On the other hand, if an open draw and extra smooth airflow aren't important to you, then I've only had one pipe that wouldn't smoke well out of the box (Rossi with a draft hole clogged with bowl coating).
And the engineering in a Missouri Meerschaum stem nearly perfect, if you don't mind a soft and thick button.
On the other hand, if an open draw and extra smooth airflow aren't important to you, then I've only had one pipe that wouldn't smoke well out of the box (Rossi with a draft hole clogged with bowl coating).
Brand is an indicator but not a guarantee of quality. We look to certain brands of maker because they are perceived to represent an understood level of quality. Sometimes that perception is based on empirical evidence, maybe tests performed by independent labs, sometimes based on customer satisfaction, or a record of performance.
In other cases it's more a perception based primarily on advertising claims, paid endorsements, and marketing, offering average goods as premium goods. It's illusion VS reality. Illusion is very effective. Otherwise people wouldn't be spending billions of dollars on advertising and marketing that is essentially spin.
Sable sums it up pretty well. There is something to be said for the impact of reputation in the manufacturing process. There are no absolute certainties but companies Like Dunhill and Castello have a vested interest in doing their best to assure high quality. The makers of the "Basket Pipe" don't have the same incentive. To reduce the purchase decision to snobbery isn't entirely honest either. Certainly there are some that purchase for that reason. For them a pipe is jewelry (that's not exclusive to pipes) but for many the maker is their best assurance of the quality standard they desire. The difference would seem to be advertising can make a bad product look good but in the end reputation catches up because advertising can't make that product a good one. It can only make you think it is and then only until your experience tells you differently. Quality is in the attention to detail. The drilling, airway, button fit and finish and such. High end companies do their best to assure these features are properly done and that's what makes them successful in the long run. Does Dunhill have a great marketing program? Absolutely but they also deliver a consistently good product and have done so for a very long time. Are they better than brand "X"? That's subjective and you'll get as many different answers as the number of people you ask. To suggest that there is little or no difference between a run of the mill production pipe and a high end one simply doesn't fit with reality. For one maker, reputation is everything for the other it's of no consequence and the products reflect that reality.
In other cases it's more a perception based primarily on advertising claims, paid endorsements, and marketing, offering average goods as premium goods. It's illusion VS reality. Illusion is very effective. Otherwise people wouldn't be spending billions of dollars on advertising and marketing that is essentially spin.
Sable sums it up pretty well. There is something to be said for the impact of reputation in the manufacturing process. There are no absolute certainties but companies Like Dunhill and Castello have a vested interest in doing their best to assure high quality. The makers of the "Basket Pipe" don't have the same incentive. To reduce the purchase decision to snobbery isn't entirely honest either. Certainly there are some that purchase for that reason. For them a pipe is jewelry (that's not exclusive to pipes) but for many the maker is their best assurance of the quality standard they desire. The difference would seem to be advertising can make a bad product look good but in the end reputation catches up because advertising can't make that product a good one. It can only make you think it is and then only until your experience tells you differently. Quality is in the attention to detail. The drilling, airway, button fit and finish and such. High end companies do their best to assure these features are properly done and that's what makes them successful in the long run. Does Dunhill have a great marketing program? Absolutely but they also deliver a consistently good product and have done so for a very long time. Are they better than brand "X"? That's subjective and you'll get as many different answers as the number of people you ask. To suggest that there is little or no difference between a run of the mill production pipe and a high end one simply doesn't fit with reality. For one maker, reputation is everything for the other it's of no consequence and the products reflect that reality.
And if you're really ambitious your money is probably better spent learning how to shape a button and open the draft properly. Once you figure that out then any $50 pipe is nearly as good as the best in the world (basically all you need is a vice with soft grips, a drill, and some needle files). I did blow up a few stems, but in the end I know that money can't buy a pipe as good as one I've tuned to my liking.
I agree with gloucesterman. If you keep telling people that your product is better than everyone's else then some people will believe it and they will tell others the same - perception becomes the reality.
So much of what is considered "high-quality" products is only that because of advertising budget and because the "rich and famous" uses that brand. What people don't understand is that the celebrities are given or loaned a lot of products because the manufacturer knows that if the product is seen by the masses, the masses will want to buy it. This happens in clothing and accessories all the time.
How does this relate to pipes? Dunhill is an old established firm dated back to the late 1890's, and helped to create the modern luxury goods market. He was probably the first tobacconist to market his pipes and tobaccos to the upper crust of British Society and then in places like New York. And, of course, he had good products to sell.
That's another very interesting topic,
yet also quite controversial!
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/the-breathability-of-briar-wood-what-do-you-think
:
:- Status