Sometimes stupidity is painful.
I was extremely lucky to only get a burn.
Any EDC CCW'ers?
- Thread starter nathaniel
- Start date
I was extremely lucky to only get a burn.
Well, my perspective is very different from all of that...but I'm not going to write an essay about it...we can just agree to disagree (nothing new there).
But all of this was brought on by me simply posting a new study by John Lott in response to Woodsroad since he made a big point about John Lott in this very thread. It couldn't possibly be more relevant or obvious why I would post that here...none of the rest of this was really necessary...and I'm sure it was clear to you why I posted it.
I think you're probably just bored and I know you love to stir the pot. That's understandable...it's been a long, dark Alaskan winter. Hang in there...it's almost Spring!
I have a "no shit there I was" story about an ND that if I hadn't watched from point blank, I would never believe as a story
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When we would enter secure areas while deployed, we'd clear our weapons at a clearing point...a formal process that squad leaders oversee.
At the time, I was the gunner on a humvee, and the 2IC for our little crew of 4, which was driver, platoon medic, myself, and our truck commander.
We were entering FOB Falcon, in southern Baghdad, so I cleared the 240b, and hopped out of the turret to clear my m4.
Our truck commander visually inspected each weapon as they cleared, and here is what happened:
The medic was in line right in front of me, I watched him drop his magazine, point the weapon into the clearing barrel, and then pull the bolt to the rear. At that point, the loaded round ejected from the chamber. As the round popped out, the medic said "clear", as he was holding the charging handle, and observed the chamber empty. SSG Works thought he caught the round just outside the ejection port, and he said "clear", BUT, I saw the round (no shit) bounce off his palm, and bounce perfectly back into the chamber, and drain right down into the breech.
This was all happening in slow motion, and the medic released his hold on the charging handle and pulled the trigger on the weapon all before I could even react...and of course he ND'd right into the clearing barrel.
Fortunately no one but us knew definitively what happened, so there wasn't any disciplinary action...everyone knew a round was discharged, but it didn't go any farther as there weren't any witnesses above squad level. Lol, shenanigans!
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When we would enter secure areas while deployed, we'd clear our weapons at a clearing point...a formal process that squad leaders oversee.
At the time, I was the gunner on a humvee, and the 2IC for our little crew of 4, which was driver, platoon medic, myself, and our truck commander.
We were entering FOB Falcon, in southern Baghdad, so I cleared the 240b, and hopped out of the turret to clear my m4.
Our truck commander visually inspected each weapon as they cleared, and here is what happened:
The medic was in line right in front of me, I watched him drop his magazine, point the weapon into the clearing barrel, and then pull the bolt to the rear. At that point, the loaded round ejected from the chamber. As the round popped out, the medic said "clear", as he was holding the charging handle, and observed the chamber empty. SSG Works thought he caught the round just outside the ejection port, and he said "clear", BUT, I saw the round (no shit) bounce off his palm, and bounce perfectly back into the chamber, and drain right down into the breech.
This was all happening in slow motion, and the medic released his hold on the charging handle and pulled the trigger on the weapon all before I could even react...and of course he ND'd right into the clearing barrel.
Fortunately no one but us knew definitively what happened, so there wasn't any disciplinary action...everyone knew a round was discharged, but it didn't go any farther as there weren't any witnesses above squad level. Lol, shenanigans!
Because when seconds count, police are just minutes awayThought it worth bumping for this latest from John Lott:
Study: Concealed Carriers Do A Better Job Of Stopping Active Shooters Than Police
First 3 paragraphs:
You’d never know it from watching television, but civilians stop more active shooters than police and do so with fewer mistakes, according to new research from the Crime Prevention Research Center, where I serve as president. In non-gun-free zones, where civilians are legally able to carry guns, concealed carry permit holders stopped 51.5 percent of active shootings, compared to 44.6 percent stopped by police, CPRC found in a deep dive into active shooter scenarios between 2014 and 2023.
Not only do permit holders succeed in stopping active shooters at a higher rate, but law enforcement officers face significantly greater risks when intervening. Our research found police were nearly six times more likely to be killed and 17 percent more likely to be wounded than armed civilians.
Those numbers paint a fuller picture than the FBI’s crime statistics, which fail to include many of the defensive gun uses my organization has cataloged. But the problem with the FBI’s crime statistics isn’t just the errors in their reported data — they also fail to address useful questions, like how concealed handgun permit holders compare to law enforcement. Kash Patel and Dan Bongino face a major challenge in reforming how the data is collected and reported at the FBI.
What We Found:
Study: Concealed Carriers Stop Active Shooters Better Than Police
Civilians stop more active shooters than police and do so with fewer mistakes, the Crime Prevention Research Center found.thefederalist.com
Thanks for sharing.
As a guy that shoot “steel matches relatively occasionally in the greater Phoenix area over the years (there’s 3-4 every week, and that’s just pistol), I’ve been onsite on three occasions when police officers finishing a stage (and RO’ing for each other) during the standard end of every stage that has RO with shooter ordering “show empty, hammer down, holster” shoot themselves in the leg skipping the first and blending the second and third into one motion.
Regarding ND’s and carrying chambered I’ll remind everybody this:
The two loudest noises you’ll ever hear are a click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click
The real discipline and training occurs “left of bang”.
In indeed it was and I felt it needed "fleshing out", as it were.clarification as the quote seemed to pit the cops against the general, usually legally armed, citizenry. I responded only in an attempt to clarify the quote as posted. If there was more, if he clarified himself, I didn't see any evidence in the post. Your chosen quote left the cops wanting. Being an old copper, I couldn't let it slide by without an attempt at clarifying. Just my nature I guess, couldn't stop myself.
Much as I do love "stirring the pot", at times, I was not. I usually stir with some humor. At least what I think of as humor.
As to winter, we didn't have one as such, little to no snow, darkness certainly but, very little frigid temperatures.
To add a bit…
Uniforms are targets. Many times, police are shot before the threat evidences itself. A civilian can choose whether or not to engage, a cop shouldn’t, and usually doesn’t. A civilian can bide his time for an opportunity, police can’t, at least not in the same way, to the same degree.
Still, I find the Lott quote interesting because it counters the BS about armed civilians being more likely to be shot with their own gun than stop an aggressor.
Uniforms are targets. Many times, police are shot before the threat evidences itself. A civilian can choose whether or not to engage, a cop shouldn’t, and usually doesn’t. A civilian can bide his time for an opportunity, police can’t, at least not in the same way, to the same degree.
Still, I find the Lott quote interesting because it counters the BS about armed civilians being more likely to be shot with their own gun than stop an aggressor.
Training is key. If there are firearm and ccs classes in your area, it’s wise to take them.
I attended a carry class 20 years ago where a somewhat startling incident took place .
2 instructors , both good guys , taught the class . One appeared was kind of a wiser , more intellectual man . The other was a working class guy who tried to convey the gravity of the class . He also had just a teaspoon of Barney Fife in him.
30 minutes into the class the first guy is standing at the front with a fake green rubber gun making some point , Barney is behind the class doing something (I don't know exactly what) when his pistol accidently discharges !
No one was hurt .
Nothing was said .
It was hard not to snicker.............
2 instructors , both good guys , taught the class . One appeared was kind of a wiser , more intellectual man . The other was a working class guy who tried to convey the gravity of the class . He also had just a teaspoon of Barney Fife in him.
30 minutes into the class the first guy is standing at the front with a fake green rubber gun making some point , Barney is behind the class doing something (I don't know exactly what) when his pistol accidently discharges !
No one was hurt .
Nothing was said .
It was hard not to snicker.............
Probably reinforced the idea that guns are to be taken seriously.
The idea that nothing was said about an accidental/negligent discharge in a firearms class is really asinine IMO...makes it all that much worse to just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen in that circumstance.
Back when I took my CC class to get my permit back in 1992, the NRA certified instructor was a real goof.
Near the end of the class, he had a question and answer thing.
Someone asked him, "do you carry a gun all the time and why?"
His answer was, "yes, because if I'm walking with my wife and someone fu*ks with her, I will kill the motherfu*ker!"
Absolute hand to God that's what he said. Luckily all 6 of us students looked around at each other and cringed.
I have used this as a "training aid" in the classes I have taught for the last 20 years.
Did the other instructor fire back with his fake green rubber gun?
I mean, active shooter training is necessary, got to learn to fire back.
And I am suddenly recalling that statistic that cops commit crimes at a rate 6 times higher than CCW permit holders. Ain't "6 times" the same as saying 600% ?
And domestic abuse at 4 X the national average...............
I'm leaving you two to deal with Warren this time...he'll be along shortly I'm sure.
Not just cops, judges, politicians and clergy also.
If the USA used crimes committed by CCers and other law abiding gun owners, there would be zero debate about guns and gun laws.
There are over 20,000 federal, state and local gun laws in the US that, if enforced, would bring "gun crime" down 90+%.
I literally just saw in Detroit where a guy was arrested 3.5 years ago for "felon in possession of a firearm" and "assault with a deadly weapon" . He was sentenced to 10 years in prison.
Well, last week he shot 4 people, killing 2. This will be added to the "mass shooting" data due to our lawmakers lowering the standard from 6 people, to 4 people. An activist judge let him out early. Awhile ago in Buffalo, another felon was arrested with a handgun. He was in jail for 2 weeks, and a judge let him out on a cashless bond. The very next day, he shot and killed his 16 year old ex girlfriend and her new guy while they were eating Burger King in her parents driveway. These stories are literally endless. But, even with these incidents, gun crime in the US keeps going down. (With a slight hiccup during the pandemic)
So, when you hear on the news there are 130 mass shootings a year, this includes gang bangers shooting each other. A
d, a gang shooting at midnight in the parking lot of a school, is considered a "school shooting".Anyways, I believe if the facts were correctly given, many anti gun citizens would not be so anti.
To understand the real reason our politicians are so rabid over guns, just read our constitution and founding documents.
Ok, I'm now going to get the ban hammer.
It was nice knowing you all.
And please don't make me go find all this information and post it. It's all there from the FBI, CDC and multiple non partisan anti crime groups....Google it.
That wasn't directed toward Warren. It's just a statistic that stuck in my head from some time in the past.
I didn't post it "gleefully"; it's sad.