American Made Plugs Versus UK Made Plugs.

[cranseiron]

Jay, thanks for the tip! I've seen some antique plug cutters on Ebay-- I may get one now, restore it and put it back in commission. Proper plugs are like little bricks, but I like messing with them.
r/

Eric

 

[mawnansmiff]

Eric, I am hoping to fashion my own plug cutter though I too have seen some cracking cutters on Ebay, alas way too expensive for my shallow pockets :roll:
First things first though I need to make a couple of reusable formers for my plug making experiments. My latest effort is still in the press after a whole week now!
Regards,
Jay.

 

[pitchfork]

The only American plugs I know of are Jackknife and Triple Play. Two things here: one, Cornell and Diehl doesn't have the same kind of press the big European manufacturers use; two, neither of the American plugs have the kind of casing that would provide the necessary "glue" to make solid, European-style plugs. I still count them as proper plugs (they use whole leaf and mature/meld like plugs generally do), but they're just different in style.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"neither of the American plugs have the kind of casing that would provide the necessary "glue" to make solid European-style plugs."
Pitchfork, with all due respect it is not any casing that 'glues' the plug together to make it solid. I think it has been established as per the link above that it is because it is steam pressed under enormous pressure that we get the really solid brick like plugs and that they originate in Ireland. Indeed Ireland is still the foremost producer of such plugs though for how much longer nobody is quite sure, but it ain't looking good :crying:
I am tinkering with making my own plugs but though with my press I can exert huge pressure I am unable to utilise any form of steam jacket to my former and sadly I can think of no practical way of so doing on such a small scale. That said, my results thus far are promising.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Q: Is the steam injected through the tobacco, or is it jacketed to only heat it?

 

[hawky454]

I prefer plugs made anywhere but the States. Don't understand why we can't get it right. Guess this is why we don't have a proper flake tobacco here either.

 

[pitchfork]

Jay, the guy who wrote that post is just thinking out loud and speculating about the importance of a particular kind of press and about the possible Irish origins of the dense plug. Maybe I missed something, but would you mind explaining why you're ruling out the importance of casings here in terms of how certain plugs cohere? I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if you could make a Condor-like plug without a certain amount of casing.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"Q: Is the steam injected through the tobacco, or is it jacketed to only heat it?"
John, I've often pondered on this myself and really don't know the answer for certain but would wager that steam is injected through the tobacco.
"..but I'd be surprised if you could make a Condor-like plug without a certain amount of casing."
Pitchfork, I would say 99.9% of all tobaccos sold (in whatever form, flake, plug etc) is cased. The casings are added not to make better cohesion within the tobacco but to reduce the natural astringency that exists in raw leaf tobacco. To suggest that it is casings that makes some plugs more solid than others is I'm afraid pure moonshine.
My own experiments in making rock solid plugs of tobacco have used nothing other than sheer brute pressure, no 'glue' to hold it together (though I did initially think I about adding a little sugar water (casing) to help bind it) was required. A solid plug of tobacco was my end result that was much more intense in flavour than the original mix I used to make my plug. Same flavours yes, but only much deeper.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[pitchfork]

Pitchfork, I would say 99.9% of all tobaccos sold (in whatever form, flake, plug etc) is cased. The casings are added not to make better cohesion within the tobacco but to reduce the natural astringency that exists in raw leaf tobacco. To suggest that it is casings that makes some plugs more solid than others is I'm afraid pure moonshine.

I'm genuinely curious -- how do you know? And was your own plug as hard and shiny as Warrior, e.g. ? (Asking here, not arguing.)

 

[mawnansmiff]

Pitchfork, I don't have the data in front of me at the moment but I thought it was commonly understood the vast majority of tobacco blends were cased. I will try to get more info later.
"was your own plug as hard and shiny as Warrior, e.g. ?"
My first attempt gave me a pretty solid circular (due to the former I used at the time) plug of tobacco that was indeed shiny on the outside and which was very difficult to cut in half. If you search on the forum you will see pictures of the pressing and resultant plug. That all said, my first effort was only in the press for a measly two days! Also, my 'headpiece' (for wont of a better term) was not quite big enough resulting in a hard core but softer edges.
My current effort has now been in the press for eight days, getting an extra turn of the handle every twelve hours or so. My intention is to leave it there (whilst still applying more pressure) for two weeks...or until my former bursts...whichever is the sooner! I expect this plug to be an improvement on my first effort, particularly regards its solidity.
"Asking here, not arguing."
I never for one moment thought you were arguing. If we don't ask we don't know!
Regards,
Jay.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Jay-
I thought you had produced cake, not a plug! That presumes we agree that plugs are from whole leaf and cake is from cut tobacco. The source, which I cannot find right now, was, I believe, British, making his view unassailable. .... :?:
Now a Q: May slices and flakes be produced from either cake or plug? (or rope)

 

[mawnansmiff]

"I thought you had produced cake, not a plug! That presumes we agree that plugs are from whole leaf and cake is from cut tobacco.!"
No John, we do not agree, actually a 'plug' tobacco is purely and simply a very hard compressed block of tobacco (regardless of the cut prior to pressing) that requires some effort from the smoker to prepare it for smoking. Please consult your OED2!
"The source, which I cannot find right now, was, I believe, British, making his view unassailable."
John, you are referring to Glynn Quelch and as a seller (now ex seller) of tobaccos he was merely simplifying matters for the 'general consumer' when he mentioned whole leaf tobacco.
"May slices and flakes be produced from either cake or plug? (or rope)."
I doubt slices or flakes could me made from cake, or at least not very stable ones (hence many American flakes being so 'fragile') but from plug of course, given a sharp enough guillotine though they would still likely benefit from being rubbed out. I believe cube cutting to be the preferred method employed.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[woodsroad]

Steam presses: From everything that I have read (and I've read a lot), the presses have always been steam jacketed. Steam was chosen because it was the most readily available form of heat. All industrial buildings used to be heated with steam, so there was usually a supply line nearby somewhere. Electric heat is much more controllable, but also more expensive to implement.
Casing: Condor and it's ilk are all heavily cased. A quick perusal of the Danish Government's tobacco ingredient disclosure lists shows that a lot of plugs also use a glue. Gum Arabic is a common choice.
War Horse: Has flavorings added, but not casing. And no glue.
Why don't they make "real" plugs here?: The machinery used to produce the Euro-style plugs does not exist in the US. We tried like all hell to get it done here, but in light of the pending FDA regs effectively eliminating all new blends, the investment in new tobacco processing equipment that would never see full utilization would not be a very smart move.
Plug vs Cake vs Clug: A rose by any other name...

 

[jpmcwjr]

It wasn't Mr. Quelch I read on the subject. In the mean time, I found a reasonably definitive definition from an expert in the field, Bob Tate:

In this article I am going to show how to prepare cake pipe tobacco in the included video. But first I am going to explain a little bit about what cake tobacco is.

Cake is another form that tobacco blends sometimes come in. They are sometimes spelled with a ‘K’ such as Kake or Krumble Kake. Cakes are made similarly to plugs as they are both pressed to form the cake or plug. But unlike plug tobaccos that use large pieces of tobacco leaf which are layered and pressed together, cakes and crumble cakes use tobaccos that have already been cut and blended into a mixture. The mixture is then pressed into a cake.
A lot of people consider cakes and crumble cakes as one and the same. But in my opinion they are two different forms of cake tobacco. Here is how I define between the two.

Cake – Is pressed together to form a dense type of cake that closely resembles a plug. It is difficult to break apart and rub out by hand. I find that using a knife works much better.

Crumble Cake – Is pressed together to form a loose type of cake that crumbles apart very easily by hand with little or no effort.

I am not a subscriber to the OED, but if you'd post the relevant entries I'd appreciate it before I declare them not the definitive word on tobaccos!
BTW, we do agree on the krappy "K" in "kake"!

LINK to Bob Tate's article

 

[woodsroad]

OK, John...I'll throw this into the mix: McClelland 5115 Old World Classic Cake. It's a broken flake made from whole leaf.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Cool. Only five pounds??
So, before it (the M5115OWCC!) was flaked, was it not in plug form? And was it caked after it was flaked? Maybe we should visit the McClellands!
And, how 'bout those celebrated Bengal Slices?? Does it become a plug before the slicing?

 

[mawnansmiff]

"Here is how I define between the two." [Bob Tate]
Bob is just as entitled to his opinion on the definition as is anyone else. As for him being an expert in the field, in the field of what...tobacco or comparative/historical philology/linguistics? A Google search reveals nothing other than his membership of this forum!
I don't have access to my OED2 right now but...
From Collins: Plug; a cake of pressed or twisted tobacco, especially for chewing.
"Casing: Condor and it's ilk are all heavily cased. A quick perusal of the Danish Government's tobacco ingredient disclosure lists shows that a lot of plugs also use a glue. Gum Arabic is a common choice."
Thanks for that Woods, as I said above, the vast majority of tobaccos are 'cased', they wouldn't be smokeable otherwise. The use of Gum Arabic is very interesting and now you mention it I recall reading the same some while ago.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"I want to impress upon the readers that you should read between the lines and take all information about pipe smoking with a grain of salt. This even includes anything that I have written. This includes the so called ‘Professionals’."
John, these are words from your very own 'tobacco expert'.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The machinery used to produce the Euro-style plugs does not exist in the US. We tried like all hell to get it done here, but in light of the pending FDA regs effectively eliminating all new blends, the investment in new tobacco processing equipment that would never see full utilization would not be a very smart move.
Plug vs Cake vs Clug: A rose by any other name...

Thanks Woods, this answers many questions that were rattling around in my head.

 

[mawnansmiff]

Michael, would you be kind enough to post a link or two so as I might familiarise myself with the negative aspects of the FDA regs?
Though I have a basic understanding of what is planned it is only just that...a basic understanding. I really would like to know more about what plans are afoot as doubtless they will be appearing over here before long :roll:
Regards,
Jay.