Aging and Pricing Thoughts

[woodsroad]

And the shipping is on me

You are too kind.

 

[orlandofurioso]

You are too kind.

Only for friends

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The world of vintage wine sales, top end, thousands of dollars a bottle stuff has been rocked with scandals over the past decade. Lots of fraud, forgeries and the like. That bottle of Chateau Lafite could just as easily be a bottle of Chateau Pigsfeet.

The amount of aged wines on the market is astronomical, and yes there are instances of fraud, as I watch in magazines such as Wine Enthusiast and Vineyard Magazines. Do you follow wines? When a fraud is discovered, it does make the wine news, as there are many wine market related magazines. And, when discovered, who discovers them? Sommeliers. But, it isn't exactly riddled with frauds.

The pipe tobacco market isn't as vast, merely a drop of water next to the bucket of wine trades. But, we do see some folks not holding up their ends of trades here. And, how does someone buying a jar of something know if the dates on the label are correct, or even if it really is what it says it is. No one is exactly policing the trades as with wines.

The reason I made the comparison was to show that comparing wines to tobacco isn't necessarily the same. Wine is regulated somewhat, and sure maybe some fraud slips through undetected, but at least there is an attempt at regulating it. I wouldn't dare try to sell a bottle for thousands without having someone authenticate it and handle the transactions for me.

And, as a winemaker, I would not even sell one single bottle without having all of my t's crossed and i's dotted, even if it isn't worth even $100. There are laws in place, and while I may not agree with all of them, I am not going to risk anything without being ready to pay the penalties. Thus, I would only buy from a pipe tobacco secondary market such as Pipestud, which is as close to being regulated as we have in pipe tobaccos. But, even then... I am not going to buy a jar of something. But, to each their own. Just posting my opinion, like everyone else.

 

[Annaresti Red]

I appreciate this conversation, it helped a lot. And it got me thinking about stuff I hadn't even considered.

I dislike blatent flipping, but selling things you won't use at reasonabe market prices makes sense. I have about 10 tins of blends i don't like. Rather than asking 10x the price in 20 years for those, I'd rather sell them now and have 20 year old tins i like to smoke in 20 years.

 

[sablebrush52]

The amount of aged wines on the market is astronomical, and yes there are instances of fraud, as I watch in magazines such as Wine Enthusiast and Vineyard Magazines. Do you follow wines? When a fraud is discovered, it does make the wine news, as there are many wine market related magazines. And, when discovered, who discovers them? Sommeliers. But, it isn't exactly riddled with frauds.

The pipe tobacco market isn't as vast, merely a drop of water next to the bucket of wine trades. But, we do see some folks not holding up their ends of trades here. And, how does someone buying a jar of something know if the dates on the label are correct, or even if it really is what it says it is. No one is exactly policing the trades as with wines.

The reason I made the comparison was to show that comparing wines to tobacco isn't necessarily the same. Wine is regulated somewhat, and sure maybe some fraud slips through undetected, but at least there is an attempt at regulating it. I wouldn't dare try to sell a bottle for thousands without having someone authenticate it and handle the transactions for me.

And, as a winemaker, I would not even sell one single bottle without having all of my t's crossed and i's dotted, even if it isn't worth even $100. There are laws in place, and while I may not agree with all of them, I am not going to risk anything without being ready to pay the penalties. Thus, I would only buy from a pipe tobacco secondary market such as Pipestud, which is as close to being regulated as we have in pipe tobaccos. But, even then... I am not going to buy a jar of something. But, to each their own. Just posting my opinion, like everyone else.

I agree with you. The basic reality with secondary markets is that there is an element of faith involved, whether it's tobacco, wine, cars, antiques, watches, jewelry, etc, etc. Most of the population is reasonably up and up and there are always crooks, especially where the payoff is sizable. Look at the current situation with looted artwork, museums being pressed to return items they thought were legitimately purchased from "reputable" art dealers. The "vintage" tobacco market is barely regulated, and laxly so. I wouldn't consider buying a jar from a unknown source, and tins are a crapshoot. And I give no credence to descriptions saying that the item being sold has been kept under optimal conditions. Might be, might not be.

 

[Sethology12]

Personally I actually sell tins that can still be acquired on major tobacco sites for LESS than they can be bought for now. Unless the product is sought after/our of production, I feel I personally must bear the burden of the possibility that what is within is dried out. Thus I usually sell for a few dollars less than current product value. This is also coming from someone that enjoys aged and unaged tobacco. If all I had to enjoy was aged tobacco I think I'd really miss some of the brighter flavor profiles of the fresher stuff.

 

[mngslvs]

Steve Fallon, a.k.a. Pipestud, has been selling aged 100 gm tins of McClelland Christmas Cheer, for $100 and up, for many years. Translates to $28/ounce. Just one example of hundreds of similar, both on his website, this forum, and elsewhere. Crazy ? Well..... I only smoke one bowl of Va in the evening, so I don't need a cellar that will last me until I am 157 -- many on this forum have such cellars. But around 3 times a year I will buy aged tobacco either from Steve or from someone on this forum. I can go out to eat with my spousal unit and easily spend 2 or 3 hours and $100 to $150 on our meal, or I can stay home and enjoy tobacco for which I overpaid, at a fraction of the price. I don't own a boat. I don't pay country club dues. So what else am I going to spend my money on ? Charity I suppose, but pretty much everyone on this forum is looking for that zone in which mind and pipe and superb tobacco bring deep satisfaction. Aged tobacco tastes better, and I don't mind paying a premium from time to time.
Pipes are another matter. I really do spend too much on too many, but, well, you know how it is.........