They should. They get a lot more money over there.
Aging and Pricing Thoughts
- Thread starter Annaresti Red
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There's a vocal bias against reselling tins here. It's like a badge of honor for some people to want nothing to do with making a few dollars on a tin they no longer want. They'd rather let it collect dust in a bin somewhere so they can get a little extra street cred on the forums when they proudly assert they are above selling tobacco. And then we have a bunch of people that don't even want to admit to storing tins for future use for some reason. Like they are braver than I am because they are willing to take their chances with higher prices and fewer options in the future.
But outside this forum is a robust, fun, and (yes) sometimes profitable secondary market where people buy and sell tins. Some people do it purely for profit. Some people do it because it helps them afford a new pipe or fund some other expense. Who cares why though? They are offering a product and would-be customers are free to engage with them or ignore them. And the buyers have their own reasons too: curiousity, collecting, enjoyment of a specific blend from a specific era, tin art . . .
I wish that people could come to this niche forum and ask their related questions without all the negative and rote responses. It's slowly killing the conversation on the forum.
But outside this forum is a robust, fun, and (yes) sometimes profitable secondary market where people buy and sell tins. Some people do it purely for profit. Some people do it because it helps them afford a new pipe or fund some other expense. Who cares why though? They are offering a product and would-be customers are free to engage with them or ignore them. And the buyers have their own reasons too: curiousity, collecting, enjoyment of a specific blend from a specific era, tin art . . .
I wish that people could come to this niche forum and ask their related questions without all the negative and rote responses. It's slowly killing the conversation on the forum.
The “flipper” thing seems to apply to only one brand, Esoterica. It can’t be applied to McClelland since they’ve been gone for 6 years. The activity around Esoterica is pretty intense and I can appreciate why people are put off by it.
But Esoterica blends were always in the hard to find category, though I rarely had a problem and never paid a high price for them.
While I’ve never bought anything to flip, I’ve bought more than I’m likely to live long enough to smoke, and so stopped buying, with the exception of a few tins that I am curious about, for the past several years.
If someone is willing to pay what I might consider a crazy amount, why not sell off what excess I have?
Nobody is putting a gun to anyone’s head to force them to buy.
How many of you are sitting on a property that’s worth a lot more than you paid for it? Are you going to sell it for what you paid 20 years ago because housing is in short supply and few can afford a home? Shelter is a necessity. Tobacco isn’t.
But Esoterica blends were always in the hard to find category, though I rarely had a problem and never paid a high price for them.
While I’ve never bought anything to flip, I’ve bought more than I’m likely to live long enough to smoke, and so stopped buying, with the exception of a few tins that I am curious about, for the past several years.
If someone is willing to pay what I might consider a crazy amount, why not sell off what excess I have?
Nobody is putting a gun to anyone’s head to force them to buy.
How many of you are sitting on a property that’s worth a lot more than you paid for it? Are you going to sell it for what you paid 20 years ago because housing is in short supply and few can afford a home? Shelter is a necessity. Tobacco isn’t.
The hoarding mentality probably has had a larger effect on blend availability than flippers, but many hoarders do eventually become flippers, though not intentionally (at first).
Exactly. And speculating isn't the demon it's made out to be because it's uncertain. Nobody's going to make a living flipping Esoterica and if you try buying up a whole bunch of tins to resell at a much, much later date, you'll just go broke in the waiting. Everybody buys more tins than they want, so if nothing else, churning them out helps offset the new influx. I've been surprised by the moralistic bent that sees the process as somehow evil.
My sense is age itself is not important. Scarcity is. I have this suspicion that cellars are packed to the gills with Dunhill label STG tins that people are planning to eventually sell. Problem is most of the blends are still in production with nothing different but the name Peterson on the sticker. If all these guys go to sell at the same time the price will drop to pennies.
I’m holding on to the McClelland tins I bought at regular retail price because I want to smoke them, and I’ll get to them when I get to them. I do this with a contemptuous disregard of the fact that holding on to them keeps them out of the secondary market, thus raising the price of the stock that’s for sale right now. Tinbids and Pipestud tremble at the thought of the potential lots just sitting in plastic bins in my spare bedroom. My plan is coming to fruition!!!!!!
My name is Krizzose, King of Tobacco!
Look on my works ye Mighty, and despair
My name is Krizzose, King of Tobacco!
Look on my works ye Mighty, and despair
I don't follow sales intentionally, but do see the threads.
I've noticed many times that a high (hopeful) price is listed.
Then the price is dropped.
The thread is 'bumped', the price dropped, the thread bumped again, the price dropped...
"Come on, no takers for $x.xx?!? Final price is $100 shipped or I'm keeping it for myself!
That kind of thing.
Tobacco is a terrible investment. Do some research and follow the math without the wishful thinking. It doesn't lead anywhere particularly lucrative.
I've noticed many times that a high (hopeful) price is listed.
Then the price is dropped.
The thread is 'bumped', the price dropped, the thread bumped again, the price dropped...
"Come on, no takers for $x.xx?!? Final price is $100 shipped or I'm keeping it for myself!
That kind of thing.
Tobacco is a terrible investment. Do some research and follow the math without the wishful thinking. It doesn't lead anywhere particularly lucrative.
I think if you have $ to pay "extra" for an old tin, you have extra $ to buy more that's readily available right now. In the end it would seem that leads to greater variety and exploration, and you'll determine on your own what you'd like to have aged. That's my path.
For myself, simply buying easily obtained, reasonably priced tins at a pace greater than what I use, has in just a few years quickly given me a stash that includes many with more than just a few years on them. I've often made a purchase and rec'd a tin with a few years of age already on it when it arrives.
I'm "chasing" what's available now and am happy with the accumulation AND ageing that's occurring as a result.
Different strokes for different folks.
For myself, simply buying easily obtained, reasonably priced tins at a pace greater than what I use, has in just a few years quickly given me a stash that includes many with more than just a few years on them. I've often made a purchase and rec'd a tin with a few years of age already on it when it arrives.
I'm "chasing" what's available now and am happy with the accumulation AND ageing that's occurring as a result.
Different strokes for different folks.
I don't disagree, but blends that I imprinted on decades ago were a whole different animal from what's being produced today. And every once in a while smoking a well preserved tin from yesteryear (and there are damned few of them - pretty variable in my experience) is such a pleasurable experience.
Still, I'm not buying ancient tins. There are much better uses for that money.
I mean, if someone wants to spend a 50% markup on a tin of Triple Play because they cannot be bothered to just buy a tin and cellar it themselves, then by all means. I personally am not interested. Every tin of tobacco I buy is from a retailer, preferably a local business whenever possible.
I'm not saying I would never make a straw purchase, as it were, for a tin of tobacco. Maybe if the market changed beyond recognition, or I had a great deal more of disposable income, maybe I would be tempted. But there are so many great blends in the here and now, that I don't see much need to buy someone else's tins.
And as Cosmic stated, unless you know the person, you've no way of knowing how well they stored and cellared that tobacco in the first place. And even if they do cellar it right, tins can be notoriously unreliable; you could be paying big bank for a can of mold.
It's just pipe tobacco at the end of the day. I love fine tobacco and pipes, truly I do. Love them more than I probably should. But they are a desire, not a need. And when I begin to treat them more like the former, then it is time to stop.
I'm not saying I would never make a straw purchase, as it were, for a tin of tobacco. Maybe if the market changed beyond recognition, or I had a great deal more of disposable income, maybe I would be tempted. But there are so many great blends in the here and now, that I don't see much need to buy someone else's tins.
And as Cosmic stated, unless you know the person, you've no way of knowing how well they stored and cellared that tobacco in the first place. And even if they do cellar it right, tins can be notoriously unreliable; you could be paying big bank for a can of mold.
It's just pipe tobacco at the end of the day. I love fine tobacco and pipes, truly I do. Love them more than I probably should. But they are a desire, not a need. And when I begin to treat them more like the former, then it is time to stop.
There is a few guys on here who sell expired tins just for a five spot more than they paid, if that. We see them, and salute them.
Wine ages and people have wine cellars. Tobacco ages and people have tobacco cellars.
Not really sure what the big difference is.
Now most people with a wine cellar share their wine with others at dinner so presumably they go through a little bit more than they might go through by themselves. Some people out there who enjoy pipe smoking also enjoy it with others and maybe they share too.
Wine can appreciate in value dramatically. Every vintage is different and some sell out quickly. And that means there's a secondary market. There just is. I guess tobacco is similar.
While I do think that it's inconvenient that some people are spoiling the party by stocking up on stuff and hoping to sell it at two or three times the amount, they're not making a living doing that. Buying tobacco at retail and sitting around until it becomes scarce and then reselling is not a scalable business. There are some folks on the forums who somehow have their retailers carefully identified, and when scarce tobacco's come in, they know about it and they buy some tins. They did the homework and they invested the time so the rewards go to them. That's life in the big city. What's the big deal?
Not really sure what the big difference is.
Now most people with a wine cellar share their wine with others at dinner so presumably they go through a little bit more than they might go through by themselves. Some people out there who enjoy pipe smoking also enjoy it with others and maybe they share too.
Wine can appreciate in value dramatically. Every vintage is different and some sell out quickly. And that means there's a secondary market. There just is. I guess tobacco is similar.
While I do think that it's inconvenient that some people are spoiling the party by stocking up on stuff and hoping to sell it at two or three times the amount, they're not making a living doing that. Buying tobacco at retail and sitting around until it becomes scarce and then reselling is not a scalable business. There are some folks on the forums who somehow have their retailers carefully identified, and when scarce tobacco's come in, they know about it and they buy some tins. They did the homework and they invested the time so the rewards go to them. That's life in the big city. What's the big deal?
The biggest difference between selling a bottle of aged wine and tobacco is that you would use a licensed sommelier to resale your wine for you, and they can verify the legitimacy of the wine. They are registered vendors with liquor licenses, and they collect and pay all taxes for you.
Danny Goofball just posting a sale of an aged tobacco has no verification process, no one is licensed, no one is collecting or paying the government it's taxes.
Now, whether you feel like the law is fair or whatever... it is still the law. And, you are taking a risk.
Respectfully, the intermediary is not the point at all is it? Reseller or not....same topic. Someone is buying a scarce thing, and selling the stuff they purchased (or hoarded) at a profit.
That appears to be the issue that bothers some folks. I didn't see anyone suggesting that the tobacco's were counterfeit.
I did not know that there was an issue with, or a market for counterfeit tobacco tins. If I missed that, then you are spot on. I should pay more attention....!
Not enough people have enjoyed well aged tobacco to appreciate the difference. Many of those that have, have cellared an adequate quantity and don't need to pay a premium for age. In general, you'd be better off putting your funds in a money market fund. I can't speak for all tobacco types but for straight Virginia blends, the aging makes a significant positive difference.
The world of vintage wine sales, top end, thousands of dollars a bottle stuff has been rocked with scandals over the past decade. Lots of fraud, forgeries and the like. That bottle of Chateau Lafite could just as easily be a bottle of Chateau Pigsfeet.
