A Question For You Ebay Sellers...

[joeman]

I've been offering pipes on eBay for 10 years. Over the course of those years, I've had a handful of eBayers "retract" a bid for different reasons. It has been a rather rare occurrence. However, this year...ever since eBay took over all payment functions, I've got bidders retracting bids every single week...and often multiple retractions per week. I don't list a lot of pipes...just several per week. The retractions are usually on the ones which appear to be getting good bids...then the retraction comes. It happens so often now, that I'm actually expecting it. I've gotten 2 retractions in just the last 2 days. Never seen anything like it...and I'm getting more than a bit suspicious.

Any other eBay sellers seeing this?

 

[Casual]

Is it part of a scam? Ruin the auction then try to offer a lowball via a message? Hard to see what it accomplishes.

 

[paulfg]

not had any retractions but 3 times in the last month I have had non payments.
In over 10 years before this i had only one .

 

[joeman]

The retraction reason is always "bid wrong amount". It's never cheap bids...always where the auction is at 50, 100, even 150. If I let my mind get the best of me, my suspicion is this:
- Ebay sets up any number of bot / fake accounts
- A bot account places a bid on an item which is doing well...therefore driving the price up. When the bot is the high bidder, multiple other bidders compete, driving the bid up.
- Before the auction ends, the bot retracts the bid...but in it's wake, has caused other bidders to bring the price up higher than they might have otherwise.
- In the end...guess what happens? The item sells for more. I make more money...but guess whose cut is also higher? ebay.

I just have no other explanation for this. In 10 years, I think I've had 4 or 5 retractions. This year, I've gotten 20 or more retractions. If my suspicion is correct, it's simply making more money for eBay...in addition to the fact that they took over payments...and hold your money for several days before sending it to your bank account...unlike Paypal, who deposited it in your Paypal account immediately.

I hope I'm wrong...and likely NO WAY to prove anything...but that's what I'm wondering.

 

[saltedplug]

In an environment of pervasive greed, if there's money to be made. . .

 

[joeman]

And honestly...if my suspicion is right and eBay IS doing this...I'd rather NOT make more money just so they can. I hope I'm wrong...but with multiple retractions each and every week...something is up.

 

[F4RM3R]

Interesting theory. I have been selling for a couple years and haven’t notice much lately. Only had one or two bids retracted in my history of selling 20-30 pipes.

 

[alaskanpiper]

The retraction reason is always "bid wrong amount". It's never cheap bids...always where the auction is at 50, 100, even 150. If I let my mind get the best of me, my suspicion is this:
- Ebay sets up any number of bot / fake accounts
- A bot account places a bid on an item which is doing well...therefore driving the price up. When the bot is the high bidder, multiple other bidders compete, driving the bid up.
- Before the auction ends, the bot retracts the bid...but in it's wake, has caused other bidders to bring the price up higher than they might have otherwise.
- In the end...guess what happens? The item sells for more. I make more money...but guess whose cut is also higher? ebay.

I just have no other explanation for this. In 10 years, I think I've had 4 or 5 retractions. This year, I've gotten 20 or more retractions. If my suspicion is correct, it's simply making more money for eBay...in addition to the fact that they took over payments...and hold your money for several days before sending it to your bank account...unlike Paypal, who deposited it in your Paypal account immediately.

I hope I'm wrong...and likely NO WAY to prove anything...but that's what I'm wondering.

Haha, if this was correct the mere thought of the resulting class action suit(s) is almost unimaginable!!!!

 

[warren]

I would guess with some bidders, the reality of present day economics may hit suddenly. It suddenly strikes them ... they do not have the discretionary moneys today that they had yesterday.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

There has been speculation about eBay manipulating the bids for as long as there has been an eBay, but as Alaskanpiper says, they could lose their shirts.

This all sounds frustrating, but I run into issues when I get the sketches ok'd, I get half down on a custom order, and everything is on track, when the customer decides to back out and starts going berserk about wanting their initial down payment back. I've already ordered the gold, stones, etc...
I mean, it sounds like you make more money because of the SNAFU, whereas... I end up $600-1200 poorer.

 

[joeman]

I hear you. I am not meaning to complain on this. It's just baffling how many retractions I get...and ZERO messages to me from the bidder either. Just very, very strange this year...especially as months roll on.

 

[Aomalley27]

There’s plenty of shill bidding on EBay.
A well known Canadian card dealer did it for Years! Having dummy accounts bid up an item, then dumping it on the highest real bidder via bid retraction.

Assuming you’re not doing the shill bidding (I think a reasonable assumption since you brought up the oddity of it); I can definitely imagine EBay soliciting a third party to shill bid and thus jack up their profits.

When I suspect shill bidding, I’ll retract my bid. And more often than not, EBay tries to get me to retract my retraction?
(Of course I’ve other problems with EBay too; Caught a loser trying to post MY graded Hockey card, a 1 of 1, who just copy and pasted MY auction.... they refused to take down the bogus listing until my lawyer threatened legal action. Why they wouldn’t protect buyers in that situation is beyond my comprehension).

Also ran into several scammers that “purchased” an item, I mailed it, then they reversedthecharges on their CC.
So I was Out item, shipping AND fees.
Actually had one instance where buyer claimed he Didn’t receive item... despite REGISTERED mail with HIS signature proving he did, and I had the money he paid deducted from my PP account AFTER he reversed his CC charges... so I was Out Item, shipping, AND $$$ equal to what he would have paid. In that instance I PAID the buyer? That’s when I sued both PP and EBay and was awarded a small sum.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Jeez, this is why I don't plan to ever sell any of my pipes. The ones I don't smoke can just set in a drawer till doomsday, because this all sounds like headache city.

 

[sablebrush52]

I haven't sold any pipes on eBay in years, but after having issues with some newbie bidders who were surprised that they were supposed to pay when they won, haven't experienced any problems. I just set a base minimum of completed bids for anyone to make a bid that I would acknowledge.

eBay makes a big deal about retracted bids, but I've noticed that there are people on it who have literally hundreds of retracted bids on their record and they're still allowed to bid. So it's just more BS from an amoral company.

 

[Aomalley27]

In most cases shill bidding ISN’T illegal. Anyone who’s ever been to an auto auction, estate sale etc can attest. However; this practice has to be acknowledged under the terms of service.
You see auction houses bidding up autos to try and generate interest, but that’s only in Reserve Auctions, and they don’t bid up to the Reserve, or anywhere close (I believe Sotheby’s will bid to 50% of Reserve)
Ebay’s rules expressly forbid shill bidding; but as Anyone that’s used that service can attest, it’s a rule rarely applied. Which is why it’s weird that EBay isn’t more transparent on its bidders. All other bidders are privy to is a hyphenated/ hidden user ID and a rating. I do believe; that you can still click on a bidder though and see their past bidding history. IE if a high majority of their bids are with the Same Seller (I’d say anything above 40-50%) that can definitely be a warning sign.

 

[Aomalley27]

There are also bidders that want to test the limits of a high bidder; and will incrementally bid up to the “winners’” max then retract their bids, with the intention of going back later/near end of auction and outbidding by $1. (I think this practice is also sketchy at best, plus it usually hurts the seller when folks see the retracted bids and suspect something fishy)

 

[Aomalley27]

I’ll add; you’ll mostly see these practices in the Card/Collectible auctions. Most Tobacciana Auctions are pretty legit; because there’s a limited buyer market.
But with Cards, especially autograph cards, it’s just rife with scams. (Heck?I see the disgraced PSA guy “authenticating” items on Pawn Stars all the time. The same guy that was taking bribes to authenticate Babe Ruth forgeries when he was at PSA?)

 

[ssjones]

That is very curious.
I just checked the bid history on the pipes we've posted to the "Interesting British Ebay Auctions", on all the pipes in that thread, recently, I see no bid retractions, on some pretty high grade pipes.
So, your experience is a bit puzzling.

 

[pauls456]

Well, just be grateful. Its probably just tire kickers. There is no way in __ that ebay is participating in shill bidding to boost their bottom line.

 

[jackpapper]

That is a really interesting case. Thanks!