A Question For You Ebay Sellers...

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runscott

Lifer
Jun 3, 2020
1,083
2,339
Washington State
Legitimate auction houses won’t sell fake/forged goods either.
Legitimate auction houses don’t allow shill bidders.
Legitimate auction houses won’t allow SELLERS to bid up THEIR OWN goods.
EBay is anything but legitimate

I agree that ebay isn't a legitimate auction house; however...

Almost every 'legitimate' auction house does all three of the things you mention. Some turn a blind eye to consigners bidding on their own goods or using shills, while other auction houses actually use their own shill bidders. They have only been prosecuted on rare occasions, and it hasn't stopped others from continuing to do it. Auction houses can't survive by being completely 'straight', as they wouldn't be able to compete. I have consigned high-end goods to AH's and gotten 1/3 of what I should have, because I don't shill my own auctions, and I chose an auction house that also doesn't shill for their consignors.

We could argue all day about the above, but I'm absolutely correct about it. I had a friend who started an 'honest' auction house 10 or so years ago, and he managed to get great items, but his auctions didn't bring the prices that others did. He was just too honest. I don't believe he is anymore, but he definitely doesn't shill for his consignors.

As far as fake/forged goods sold by 'legitimate' auction houses - I could provide you with a long list of examples, but the most obvious have been Babe Ruth signed baseballs and photographs, and autographed 1933 Goudey baseball cards. I have personally had several items that I sold on ebay misrepresented by major auction houses: a 1920's baseball cap with a 'C' on it was sold as a game-used Cleveland Indians cap and a 1950's football helmet was sold as a game-used Notre Dame helmet.
 

runscott

Lifer
Jun 3, 2020
1,083
2,339
Washington State
It really saddened me as I wrote the above. It's really even worse than I stated. I own a football from the NFC championship game between the 49'ers and Seahawks which is photo-matched to several plays in the 1st half, and to the kick-off in the second half. A major auction house sold another ball as the kick-off ball for the 2nd half, and it was authenticated by the NFL. That's a $3,000 football that probably never saw any game action. But the NFL said it did, so it did, right? Any time you think about bidding on a football that's authenticated by the NFL, think again.
 
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,794
45,413
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Overall I've been satisfied with my purchases on eBay aw well as the few sales I've made. That said, I'm also aware that eBay allows a lot of illegal activity to take place, such as selling pirated material, a case in point being a seller who is selling copies of the Pre-War Barling catalog that I digitally restored and published, and to which I own the copyright to that restoration. I contacted eBay concerning this and their response was...wait for it...nothing. If it was a big money maker, or that important to me I'd take legal action, but honestly, it isn't. Theft of intellectual property has become common behavior.

eBay is loath to deal with bad actors. When a Chinese "seller" was placing bogus posts of pipes for sale, using images gleaned from legitimate posts, offering a $300 pipe for $20 bucks, it took numerous reports from me and others to get eBay to finally act. In the meantime the crook was ripping off dozens of dumb suckers. This went on for months as we sent literally hundreds of reports about this guy.

Their job is to maximize their profit, nothing more and nothing less. With 32 marketplaces worldwide it would take a considerable investment to have sufficient supervision of activity and that would eat into profit.

You need to know what you're doing if you're going to play in that fetid sandbox. The only reason I'm on eBay is because I find things I want that I don't find elsewhere.
 

rorrer

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 2, 2014
125
1,100
Lockhart, Texas USA
I've sold quite a few pipes on ebay and have been on it for over 20 years. I've definitely noticed buyer behavior getting worse lately. Lots of flakes. I certainly don't enjoy it as much as I used to.

C.Rorrer
 
Feb 12, 2022
3,456
47,946
31
North Georgia mountains.
Ebay could take a lesson from CigarBid. Not sure of the logistics on why this isn't a thing on eBay, but it is on Cbid. On Cbid, you have to enter your card credentials and if you win an auction, they automatically deduct the payment from your account. So there is no option to flake on a won auction
 

NC TX ID pipeman

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 25, 2021
565
1,224
North Carolina,Texas,Idaho
I had weird experience with ebay lately... I bid on surplus extreme cold weather pants 40,-$..I was first bidder...it only showed up my bid as 20$,-...Nobody else bid.I won ...for 20$ less than real amount of my bid...I would have pay 20$ more...Seller got cheated by Ebay!!
 

Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,699
Chicagoland area
I had weird experience with ebay lately... I bid on surplus extreme cold weather pants 40,-$..I was first bidder...it only showed up my bid as 20$,-...Nobody else bid.I won ...for 20$ less than real amount of my bid...I would have pay 20$ more...Seller got cheated by Ebay!!
You’re joking right? $40 would be your limit. $20 would be starting bid. If no one else bids, you wouldn’t reach your $40 max.
But I’m assuming your just being cheeky?
 

Piping Abe

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 27, 2021
532
1,463
Georgia, USA
How does someone retract their bid on ebay? I’ve bought plenty of pipes and have never seen an option for this (not saying I would). I’ve also sold more than a few pipes on ebay and other items. Only 1 person did not pay.
 

highwindows

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 16, 2022
187
2,330
Gibraltar/Georgia
It could simply be TAD followed by a pang of regret, but I wouldn't put it past ebay to come up with some funny business. Insanely greedy company, as evidenced by their fee hike and global shipping programme, which is extortionately priced.
 

NC TX ID pipeman

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 25, 2021
565
1,224
North Carolina,Texas,Idaho
You’re joking right? $40 would be your limit. $20 would be starting bid. If no one else bids, you wouldn’t reach your $40 max.
But I’m assuming your just being cheeky?
Not joking...I have no idea how this bidding works but how do they calculate what part of your bid is starting bid out of your limit bid?The only way I can explain this is that the seller only wanted 20 ,-$ for them and thats it..
 
Dec 10, 2013
2,403
3,039
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
It could simply be TAD followed by a pang of regret, but I wouldn't put it past ebay to come up with some funny business. Insanely greedy company, as evidenced by their fee hike and global shipping programme, which is extortionately priced.
Ebay does not care a fig, all they want is making money.
I do not sell, but I bought many pipes on Feebay and I never, ever retracted a bid.
Always commit to my buy. Ebay now took over all payments functions and it totally puts me off .
Any seller and I cannot make our own arrangements anymore and I detest and reject their global shipping
for reasons mentioned. Same goes for UK sellers now the UK left us.
Apart from that Ebay "stole" several so-called restricted items from me and much later
resold them for exorbitant prices, often 5 times over the original sale pirce !
Amongst them a wonderfull sixties Dunhill pipe and some truly well thorned blackthorn shanks for stickmaking.
It is a shambles and I'm furious.
 
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Dec 10, 2013
2,403
3,039
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
Overall I've been satisfied with my purchases on eBay aw well as the few sales I've made. That said, I'm also aware that eBay allows a lot of illegal activity to take place, such as selling pirated material, a case in point being a seller who is selling copies of the Pre-War Barling catalog that I digitally restored and published, and to which I own the copyright to that restoration. I contacted eBay concerning this and their response was...wait for it...nothing. If it was a big money maker, or that important to me I'd take legal action, but honestly, it isn't. Theft of intellectual property has become common behavior.

eBay is loath to deal with bad actors. When a Chinese "seller" was placing bogus posts of pipes for sale, using images gleaned from legitimate posts, offering a $300 pipe for $20 bucks, it took numerous reports from me and others to get eBay to finally act. In the meantime the crook was ripping off dozens of dumb suckers. This went on for months as we sent literally hundreds of reports about this guy.

Their job is to maximize their profit, nothing more and nothing less. With 32 marketplaces worldwide it would take a considerable investment to have sufficient supervision of activity and that would eat into profit.

You need to know what you're doing if you're going to play in that fetid sandbox. The only reason I'm on eBay is because I find things I want that I don't find elsewhere.
Hi Jesse,
Is the catalog still available ?
 

Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,699
Chicagoland area
Not joking...I have no idea how this bidding works but how do they calculate what part of your bid is starting bid out of your limit bid?The only way I can explain this is that the seller only wanted 20 ,-$ for them and thats it..
Seller sets starting bid/opening bid. When you enter $40 (over the opening bid) you are de facto opening bid of $20.
Gotta be careful, as some unscrupulous sellers will often bid you up to reach maximum profit. I haven’t seen it much with pipes; but definitely see it ALOT with trading cards.
 
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guylesss

Can't Leave
May 13, 2020
322
1,155
Brooklyn, NY
Like everyone else here, I've plenty of complaints to make about Ebay as both a regular buyer and an occasional seller. In my case over the course of twenty odd years--with many of them growing far worse when masking bidder identities began (first during auctions, and more recently even in feedback). But then also when--in many fields (with estate pipes somewhat of an exception)--sales began to edge out auctions even with unique vintage goods.

My inference back before either was the case (which is say auctions were the norm and you could keep track of the whales of whatever collector world you were operating) was that--as Jesse suggests--retractions were most often a strategy used to get information.

Typically to figure out a seller's reserve price (back when such auctions were quite common and when sellers' reserves could be quite high). The other situation occurred before sniping became quite so prevalent, and at least some experienced bidders preferred to use Ebay's proxy bidding feature, and place a strong bid early in an auction. Occasionally, let's call it malicious curiosity, would get the better of someone with some interest in what was on offer, and they'd use Ebay's bid retraction feature to find out exactly how strong their rival's early bid actually was.

The third situation--random flakes and scammers simply spoiling an ongoing auction for no clear reason (a category that would also include the virtual world's version of kids and their friends making prank calls)--could also be a problem. And of course, there actually were genuine honest mistakes--one zero too many, misreading an item description (or failing to see a serious condition issue in a photo), or not noting that shipping cost from Shanghai was going to run $100.

As a seller, I always did my best to guard against situation three using Ebay's "bid cancellation" feature. I would always make a point in my listings to warn potential bidders that new ebay buyers, those with poor feedback and anyone from outside the US (to which shipping costs could be significant) needed to contact me BEFORE bidding. And THEN I'd watch bids as they came in, and check out the bidder's history to assure myself as much as I could that they had some history of actual honest dealing. And perhaps on a couple of occasions I actually did cancel a bid.

Finally, I also made it a strong point of encouraging potential bidders to contact me with any questions they might have. (Whether on Ebay or anywhere else, whether as a seller or buyer, my hope is to encounter a reasonable person on the other side of the transaction.) To some extent, I'm inclined to think, limited as they were, such preventative measures may have helped. As clearly did a certain amount of good luck (with perhaps a couple of hundred sales transactions).

I have to say my guess, joeman, is you've just had a run of bad luck with category 3.

(As for the possibility of some scammer approaching a seller with a low ball offer after a failed auction--Ebay's rules makes that tricky at best, and virtually impossible if you wanted to deny them their cut.) As for ebay itself creating shill bidding bots. . . I really think not.

Like all large and successful auction venues,Ebay thrives on a strategy of sitting happily in the middle and extracting their £s of flesh with a thousand cuts from both sides. This in the confidence that sellers will believe they'll do a bit better with them than they will with a sale to a retailer (straight up or "on consignment"), while buyers are generally looking for bargains (and more than happy to deal with sellers who have no clue whatever what it is they're selling). Which is to say, it is well to remember that even with many honest potential buyers there is a somewhat adversarial element in the mix. And plenty of people making perfectly real bids (who'll cheerfully convey payment, readily acknowledge the arrival of a package, and leave you glowing praise as feedback) are out to score a $500 pipe for $50.

Very much my 20,000 cents. But hoping some part of it might be vaguely helpful.
 
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,794
45,413
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Hi Jesse,
Is the catalog still available ?
It is. It's a copy of the copy that was illegally posted on a Chinese pipe site, (should never have sold copies of the original release to buyers in China) so it's not the equivalent of what I published, being a few generations removed.

Frankly, I don't care as I have no interest in pursuing future sales, and sold my interest to Briarbooks Press four years ago. The main thing is to get the information out to interested parties, which is why I bought the original catalog in the first place, restored it digitally, and published it, so that some fat cat wouldn't lock it away to be ignored as a dust catcher.

All that said, it remains true that respect for intellectual property and for the labor that goes into the creation of it, is almost nonexistent in this brave new digital world of ours. Theft is a right.

However, the original had company marginalia that isn't in the published restoration, and which will not ever be published by me. Eventually I'll donate the original to a research library, perhaps the Huntington, and the freeloaders can go screw themselves.

The catalog is available online for free. Don't spend any money on a copy from a freeloader.
 
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Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,699
Chicagoland area
Here’s a perfect example of shill bidding. The pipe has “sold” 6 times by the same seller. It’s been listed too many times to count. (It’s been on my watch list for the better portion of a year and a half)
Just go to the sellers page and look at his completed items. You’ll see this exact listing at least 3 times; twice listed as “sold”, once best offer accepted, and once auction style. Of course EBay does nothing about it.
 

Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,699
Chicagoland area
Yet more shill bidding. This pipes has “sold” 4 times by the same seller. These people don’t even try to hide their shenanigans. At least post it for sale under a different seller name/account. Heck; take new photos.
 
Jul 26, 2021
2,222
9,063
Metro-Detroit
I am always amazed at scams people pull. Like beating sale limits with multiple email addresses. I'm just not wired that way.

Of course, people are scandalous and I should know better, but still get suprised.

While money stacks and a few coins add up, I fail to see the big gains with fake Ebay bidding based on a cost-benefit analysis based on what I would presume to be a lot of invested time to get great gain.