A Question About Aging

[davidsaulmarshall]

Hello all,

I've been lurking around the site for the answer to a question I've had for a while: is it better to age blends in their original (vacuum-sealed) European tins or jar them?

From what I've read, tobacco needs a bit of air to begin the fermentation process, and so many on the forum argue against vacuum-sealing blends in mylar pouches and the like. Why is it then that most advocate for ageing tobacco in European tins which are also vacuum-sealed? Surely it makes more sense to replicate the environment found in an American tin (akin to those from McClelland/C&D) by securely jarring the blend and putting it away?

 

[BROBS]

I think they age better in a jar.
however they are no longer a “new tin” once you pop it.

 

[jzbdano]

Jars are probably more reliable as far as the seal but I am not about to start popping all my tins and transfering to jars. I figure I will buy more tobacco than I'll smoke in my life so if I lose a small percentage of my tins to a failed seal it won't be a big deal.

 

[Sonorisis]

I've put all my tins in sealed, mylar bags. Best of all worlds. Jars are great, but come with some overhead: they break if dropped, and they take up quite a bit of space.

 

[davidsaulmarshall]

I've put all my tins in sealed, mylar bags. Best of all worlds. Jars are great, but come with some overhead: they break if dropped, and they take up quite a bit of space.

Are the mylar bags vacuum sealed? I've heard of their use, but I'm not clear on the environment within them.

 

[gervais]

Since I buy the majority of my tobacco in "bulk", it ends up in jars. The few tins that I do buy stay in the tin, so I can try to compare the difference someday. All my unopened tins will stay in the tins, especially english/Balkans. Honestly, I think Va-heavy blends will age better in glass jars with some air. That's my belief anyways. Probably no real noticeable difference either way, realistically.

 

[gervais]

For what it's worth, if you're weird like me, staring at a mason jar packed with Flakes is pretty satisfying. I like keeping an eye on my Leaf

 

[mikestanley]

To me, nothing shows the difference between exposure to O2 and less O2 than a McClelland tin compared to a C&D tin.
McClelland tinned tobacco in a low O2 environment. If you open a ten year tin of say, McClelland Va#27, there seems to be less change than I would expect to the tobacco. Many have notice C&D tins seem to puff up quite a bit, quite early in the aging process. I personally have never seen a McClelland tin exhibit that same puffiness. The O2 captured inside the tin must be the difference. I don't have a great deal of tobacco in jars but, I do have a pound and a half of 2015 from 2009. I also have tins of St. James Woods from the same era. Although they aren't precisely the same blend, I look forward to a side by comparison sometime in the future.

Mike S.

 

[addamsruspipe]

For what it's worth, if you're weird like me, staring at a mason jar packed with Flakes is pretty satisfying. I like keeping an eye on my Leaf

Mine talk to me. The ones in the jars at least. The in the tins just mutter to themselves. ?

 

[spartacus]

I leave all my tins in tins and jar them when I'm ready to smoke them. I have tins from the early 80's and no issues yet. I popped a tin of 2002 Black Woods for Christmas and it was perfect.

 

[boston]

I vacuum seal square, round and rectangular tins using meal saver bags and vacuum machine (seal-a-meal type of thing). Tins from McClelland etc I leave as is and store in a dry cool cellar. I do not transfer to jars until opened. Some of these tobacco's, now discontinued, are quite valuable and can lose some/much of their value to certain collectors if not kept in original tins.

 

[BROBS]

that's one of the main things too..
if down the road you want to trade it, sell it, etc..

 

[cigrmaster]

I am lucky in that most of my favorites only came in tins. I hate jars, they take up way too much room. I store all my tins as they are and have yet to have one fail.

 

[shanez]

Are the mylar bags vacuum sealed? I've heard of their use, but I'm not clear on the environment within them.

Sealed? Yes. Vacuumed? No.

It's a heckuva a lot easier to just leave the tobacco in its original tin and put 4 tins or so in a bag and seal it than it is to transfer to jars. Plus jars are heavy and the break easy. I put my sealed bags in plastic totes which helps keep everything in good shape and makes it easy to move around:

If those totes were full of glass jars they'd be pretty dang heavy!

 

[biodarwin]

One thought here is headspace. In a jar, you have varying headspace. Nothing is ever "empty", whats not filled with tobacco, will be filled with air. An american sealed tin (as described above) with a small amount of oxygen is great, it's just enough to kick off aerobic fermentation. Once the oxygen is gone, anaerobic fermentation continues, which will also feed on some of the by-products and is something completely different. Once you pop the lid, the entire environment changes. It will continue to age in a jar and it will most likely be great, but it will never be the same as if you left it in the tin. Most of this is referenced from writings from G.L Pease and some basic chemistry research.

 

[biodarwin]

If those totes were full of glass jars, they'd be pretty dang heavy!

I buy boxes of mason jars, the box itself has foam formed seating for the jars. After they are full, I tuck the entire box away. Not saying this is better or worse, just providing some options and data to folks.

 

[BROBS]

A lot of what he writes is pure speculation

 

[biodarwin]

A lot of what he writes is pure speculation

I can back some of it up, regarding fermentation, I have been studying it for years. But over the years he has contradicted himself on my occasions, so I concur

 

[sablebrush52]

Most of this is referenced from writings from G.L Pease and some basic chemistry research.

Greg's changed his stance on aging in tins. He found too many failures with the square tins in his cellar - he's been cellaring for decades - and now recommends jarring as soon as possible and then letting the tobacco age in the jar.

 

[davidsaulmarshall]

Thanks for all the information guys. I was asking this question because I've been thinking about how to age the four or five tins of Sutliff Cringle Flake I purchased this holiday season. For reasons too complex to explain, I won't see these tins for at least 3 years, so I think I'll just jar them together and seal the mason jar with some wax.