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Uh oh,The FDA has noticed Pipe and Cigar Smokers

(27 posts)
  • Started 5 years ago by tuold
  • Latest reply from Kevin Godbee
  1. tuold

    tuold

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    As long as somebody out there has something to bring them comfort and joy, the FDA will work tirelessly to seek them out and quash their desires.

    The story from today's New York times mostly mentions the national threat of e-cigs to our young, but if you read further they feds also have their eyes on our pipe tobacco. Requiring proof of ID makes me think Internet purchasing is the target of the legislation. I hope I'm wrong.

    F.D.A. Will Propose New Regulations for E-Cigarettes

    The Food and Drug Administration will propose sweeping new rules on Thursday that for the first time would extend its regulatory authority from cigarettes to electronic cigarettes, popular nicotine delivery devices that have grown into a multibillion-dollar business with virtually no federal oversight or protections for American consumers.

    The regulatory blueprint, with broad implications for public health, the tobacco industry and the nation’s 42 million smokers, would also cover pipe tobacco and cigars, tobacco products that have long slid under the regulatory radar and whose use has risen sharply in recent years.

    The new regulations would ban the sale of e-cigarettes, cigars and pipe tobacco to Americans under 18, and would require that people buying them show photo identification to prove their age, measures already mandated in a number of states.

    The pipe is an instrument of civilization.
    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. latbomber

    latbomber

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    Frustrating, foolish, angering. Business as usual. In 10 years we won't even be allowed to use harsh language...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. tuold

    tuold

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    I just finished listening to an FDA official on the radio explaining the need these new regulations. It seems their anti-smoking efforts have been so successful that increasing numbers of young people are turning to pipe smoking which is increasing the use of tobacco products in general.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. apatim

    apatim

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    They won't stop until they have complete control over every aspect of our lives. "Free country" my ass!

    Enjoying my days on earth.

    Tim
    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    It's getting ridiculous. Funny how this comes after about a week after the Manitoba was posted regarding e-cigs.
    Problem is that there isn't enough of us to speak up against all this crap.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. fadingdaylight

    fadingdaylight

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    When are they going to focus their efforts on real problems? How about we target the fast food industry. Heart disease is still the leading cause of death in the US. McDonald's and Burger King are killing more people than tobacco. Obesity is at an all time high, yet smoking has reached all time lows.

    - Jason
    "Lost in thought and lost in time... While the seeds of life and the seeds of change were planted... Outside the rain fell dark and slow... While I pondered on this dangerous but irresistible pastime..."
    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. dochudson

    dochudson

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    stock them cellars..

    I Enjoy Aromatics
    I Enjoy Peterson Pipes
    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. papipeguy

    papipeguy

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    To my mind regulating e-cigarettes is like putting restrictions on flavor straws. Imagine FDA officials raiding the school cafeteria and seizing little Johnny's strawberry infused straw? Yes, I can.

    Blowin' smoke since 1970.
    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. fadingdaylight

    fadingdaylight

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    Well, I can see the basic point. Ecigs do appeal to children because of the flavors. I can vouch for that as I caught my child, who has never one gone near cigarettes or pipes, trying to take a few puffs off of my wife's ecig. We promptly stopped using them, and decided to find a better way to quit smoking cigarretes.

    Ecigs, and all nicotine products, do need some kind of regulation. But placing ridiculous sin taxes on everything and making it impossible to get a good deal online by requiring in store, with id, purchaces is more of just being a pain in the ass. Parents, regardless of what they might think, are still overall responsible for what their children do.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. apatim

    apatim

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    Long ago parents abdicated their place of authority to the almighty government. We the people have only ourselves to blame. Cigarettes and other tobacco products, as well as alcohol, were readily available to minors when I was a kid. Then, just as now, some kids found a way to partake in them while others - like me - had to much fear/respect for parental authority to even think about it.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. dhizzy

    dhizzy

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    Long ago parents abdicated their place of authority to the almighty government. We the people have only ourselves to blame. Cigarettes and other tobacco products, as well as alcohol, were readily available to minors when I was a kid. Then, just as now, some kids found a way to partake in them while others - like me - had to much fear/respect for parental authority to even think about it.

    Well said sir.

    By the eternal! There is a man whose form should be cast in deathless bronze and the statue placed in every college in the land. It is not book-learning young men need, nor instruction about this and that, but a stiffening of the vertebrae which will cause them to be loyal to a trust, to act promptly, concentrate their energies; do the thing - "carry a message to Garcia!" Elbert Hubbard "A Message to Garcia" 1899
    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. sean81

    sean81

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    Maybe I don't understand. I was always under the assumpution that you had to be 18+ years of age to purchase any type of tobacco product and that a photo ID with the purchers birth date on it was always requried. Even purchases from websited already 'require' age verification. So, maybe, I'm not quite understanding what this bit of legislation is for or about.

    A universe with a God would look quite different from a universe without one. A physics, a biology where there is a God is bound to look different. So the most basic claims of religion are scientific. Religion is a scientific theory.

    We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special.
    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. sailorjeremy

    sailorjeremy

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    I'll be smoking my pipe by the fireplace, comfortably nestled in the mountains of New Zealand. Now taking applications for roommates!

    ~ Jeremy "Doc"

    "This is not recreation, this is therapy. This is essential... I consider the tobacco I put in my pipe all the grief and suffering. And I will burn it.”- US Navy Chaplain (RET) A.P. Sholtes
    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. apatim

    apatim

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    I don't think it has anything to do with protecting minors. It has everything to do with a few powerful people attempting to control others.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. layinpipe

    layinpipe

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    When are they going to focus their efforts on real problems? How about we target the fast food industry. Heart disease is still the leading cause of death in the US. McDonald's and Burger King are killing more people than tobacco. Obesity is at an all time high, yet smoking has reached all time lows.

    ^This.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Before Obama became president, but all the signs said that he was going to be president, I had a conversation with professor John Lott, formerly of the University of Chicago. He shared his interactions with Barak Obama but said that he knew Cass Sunstein much better (who is close friend of Barak Obama's). It seems like it was just yesterday, that he prophetically said: "A president Obama would have a place in his administration for Cass, using regulatory powers to implement and expand the power of the executive branch".

    Not surprisingly, Cass Sunstein became Obama's regulatory czar.

    The Cliff notes version on why he believes that like drugs, Tobacco should be regulated, full text can be downloaded on that page:

    http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/dlj/vol47/iss6/1/

    If people really knew what has taken place over the last several years by regulation that will manifest itself in our future, long after the people implemented it are gone, they would be outraged....well, maybe not, there are a lot of dumb sheep, ripe for the shearing.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. apatim

    apatim

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    Jeremy, a friend of mine moved to New Zealand several years ago. He loves it there. I think he recently obtained citizenship even.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. psychpipes

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    Maybe I don't understand. I was always under the assumpution that you had to be 18+ years of age to purchase any type of tobacco product and that a photo ID with the purchers birth date on it was always requried. Even purchases from websited already 'require' age verification. So, maybe, I'm not quite understanding what this bit of legislation is for or about.

    I believe the idea is that currently the FDA only specifically regulates cigarettes, roll-your-own tobacco, and smokeless tobacco. The FDA got court approval to be able to regulate e-cigs on the basis that nicotine is derived from the tobacco plant, and thus falls under FDA scrutiny. As far as I have read, the main focus in articles has been on the effect this will have on e-cigs. The current proposal would force ID requirements specifically on tobacco products that were not specifically mentioned. The e-cig companies also have to submit reports to the FDA for review in order to continue sales. At this point, the move does not ban advertising or the flavors that anti-smokers blame for kid appeal.

    Pipe tobacco and cigars seem to be a smaller footnote that is not really being discussed by the media. This will likely lead to additional "sin taxing", and will make pipe tobacco more difficult to obtain and/or pricier even on the online market.

    All I can say is that we need to stock up on tobacco. I'm only 26, and I plan on living forever. I don't have enough tobacco to sustain myself over the incoming difficulties. Personally, I plan on selling some pipes, halting PAD, and focusing heavily on my cellar. Pipes will always be there, the tobacco may not.

    When are they going to focus their efforts on real problems? How about we target the fast food industry.

    This sort of idea is the cornerstone of many of the First Lady's ideas. Proposed soda bans/taxes such as the ones in New York are an example of similar ideas. While I am of the mind that there are some people with good intentions here, the fact of the matter is that we are being fooled. The point of "healthy legislation" has nothing to do with the greater good. It has nothing to do with freedoms. It has to do with money. Sin taxes are big money; just look at Colorado's marijuana tax revenue. We get hit from both sides. We are forced into health care, and we are forced to pay extra for the things that make us unhealthy. The end result is that the government gets payed, and we lose our ability to choose what we want for ourselves.

    I personally am guilty of being a fatty and a smoker. I do not seek government assistance for healthcare, I pay for my own privately because I do not expect you all to pay for my health just because I want to eat a Big Mac and chain smoke my pipes. The problem is that I also don't want to have to pay more for that burger and tobacco just because the government needs the money to pay for the heart surgery or lung cancer treatment of the next fatty/smoker that can't take financial responsibility for their own choices.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. mso489

    mso489

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    I guess if you are a non-smoker among other non-smokers, stamping out pipe smoking (among other forms
    of tobacco/nicotine use) seems like a worthy mission. I guess my perspective at the moment is a little
    subjective and naval gazing, but it is bittersweet irony to me. I grew up swimming amid drug use, of every
    kind -- hard, soft, psycho-active, and so on. Never did it. I had specific reasons (family health history).
    I also doubted that anyone was going to gather my sad addicted ass off the curb and rescue me. So I went
    right along, to the Vietnam War, the Moody Blues concert where people were standing on chairs naked tripping,
    and so forth. I did pass out under a tree after a rapid pint of vodka, but didn't drink that much mostly. So now
    the FDA would inveigh against my having a bowl or two of pipe tobacco in my golden years. Okay, okay. But
    don't ask me not to laugh at the irony of it all. Freud pointed out that the larger the group taking the action
    the less intelligent the action is. Freud made most of his pronouncements on the basis of a few observations
    and little or no data, but I think -- shooting blindfolded as usual -- he hit the bullseye that time.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. kibo

    kibo

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    Ever see "Escape from LA"? The critics panned it for being mostly a remake of "Escape from New York", shot for shot in some parts even....but if you pay attention to the list of rules that get you sent to LA Max, well...we are slowly heading that way...

    Here's a quick list of the films new "Moral America" laws: tobacco, alcoholic beverages, red meat, firearms, profanity, non-Christian religions, atheism, and non-marital sex are all offenses punishable by deportation to LA Max or you can 'repent' and be executed by electric chair.

    Gettin' there...

    "Ask not for whom the bone bones; it bones for thee."
    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. psychpipes

    psychpipes

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    Ever see "Escape from LA"?

    I loved those movies. Snake is totally awesome.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. mso489

    mso489

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    I edited it out of my earlier post, but it's too funky not to mention, the book by Freud that includes the
    theory about progressively larger groups making less and less intelligent decisions is:
    "Group Psychology and An Analysis of the Ego." If you ever need to kill a conversation in its tracks,
    just quote that. The silence will be deafening and unending, which is sometimes useful. On the other
    hand, if that's just your kind of wonkiness, the book is thin and available in paperback, and fairly
    interesting, though as noted in my earlier post, you have to approach Freud with vigorous skepticism.
    He really snowed people of his era because they were self-conscious about sex and were too antsy to
    argue with many of his fanciful assertions.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. fadingdaylight

    fadingdaylight

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    Psych, I hear you. I love my bad foods too. I just wanted to make a grumpy point that if the Government is so concerned for the health of their citizens (which they aren't, we all know this is about $) they have much bigger issues to face than pipe tobacco. Or tobacco at all. Fast food is just one of them. Honestly, I wish they would just stay the hell out of all of our lives a little more. Ironic, since they are probably reading this.

    It is about choices, both health and financial. As an average guy, I am not fond of paying taxes so a lazy drunk can get his broken leg fixed that he snapped jumping off a roof in a liquor haze. Nor am I fond of paying for someone else having tobacco related treatments. On the other hand, as a person who has insurance, and is relatively healthy, I see no reason why I can't eat or smoke what I please. It is not the governments concern. The insurance companies don't want to come out of pocket for my care if I wind up with cancer, or lung disease. The government placates them by making tobacco less and less accessible. But what it boils down to is if you can't pay for treatment, and you made the choice to smoke, you should have to live with your poor health until it overtakes you. Cause and effect. That is life. It may seem unfair, but it isn't. We all have to face the music sooner or later, I just wish the government would back up and let it happen.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. apatim

    apatim

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    Freud was a trip! Thanks for the book reference. I think I read it years ago but will check Amazon for it. Maybe there is a kindle version.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. apatim

    apatim

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    Fadingdaylight, you sound like you could be my brother from another mother.

    If we didn't rely on the government, we would learn to care for ourselves and one another. It's the old "give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish" concept.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. sockmonkey

    Jeremiah

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    I accidentally posted this in the General Forums before I saw this post, but it seems that the FDA is asking for "Comments, Data and Research" about the proposed changes, starting tomorrow, at the following URL:

    http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/ucm388395.htm

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. admin

    Kevin Godbee

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    Here is my post: New FDA Stuff on e-cigs & pipe tobacco

    Check Out Our - Pipes Podcast
    Posted 5 years ago #

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