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A Message From Mike & Mary McNiel

(119 posts)
  1. pipestud

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    Howdy Gang,

    I have been in conversation with Mike and Mary McNiel (owners of McClelland's), over the past couple of days while the two of them were sampling from a 500 pound batch of Red Virginia that they hoped measured up to their standards in order to produce more 5100 Red Cake. Mike called me this morning to say that, unfortunately, after extensive smoking tests in clay, Briar & Meerschaum pipes, the tobacco did not meet their standards and was headed for the trash bin.

    Mike asked me this morning to let everyone on the forum know that 5100, after having been sold publicly since 1980, is no more and has been officially retired from the McClelland's lineup. He knew that McClelland's 5100 had been a topic of discussion here and wanted to put an end to all the rumors and guessing. He and Mary also want to thank all of you for your kind comments concerning McClelland's and their 5100, and knew that everyone would understand that he and Mary would not put out a sub-standard product just for the sake of making a few dollars.

    Mike also said that quality Red Virginia is becoming extremely difficult to locate these days and that he doesn't expect that will improve any time soon. What this means regarding the future of great tobacco blends that use Red Virginia, I don't know. I sure hope that beautiful sweet red stuff isn't headed the way of Syrian Latakia.

    Pipestud
    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. cosmicfolklore

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    What this means regarding the future of great tobacco blends that use Red Virginia, I don't know.

    So, more speculating and rumoring is needed? I don't understand why they don't come on and post themselves. Otherwise this is still just hearsay.

    Michael
    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. cortezattic

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    I think pipestud has enough credibility within the community to act as a reliable source.
    What still needs some explaining is the cause of the red Va. crisis. (Cosmic, get a spell-checker.)

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. cosmicfolklore

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    I would think that a depleted source of reds would mean an end to McClelland's pipe tobacco altogether. And, I am a little surprised to learn that they don't flue cure themselves. That means they have been leaving most of their magic with Virginias up to the farmers?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. perdurabo

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    I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you about things like this, but my thoughts were about the same as Cosmic's. Plus the fact that McClelland matures their virginias may play a role. I don't know. It's been interesting listening to these threads about red Virginia. Perhaps tobacco blenders need to do what Jade Liquers has done, be the source(farmer) of their products.

    It's not my position nor want to help another man. It's his responsibility to help himself, as where he can learn to dig down deep enough to save himself. -I. Kidd
    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. cosmicfolklore

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    With as much respect as possible, Pipestud hasn't said anything other than exactly what has already been said in every McClelland thread. It didn't answer any of the other questions that constantly comes up. A Q&A session or at least a post that sums up some of these speculations would help.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. perdurabo

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    Listening? Ha ha ha Look at me. Reading was what I meant......

    Yea, Not really an answered question. But I think Pipestud did the best he could do.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. mso489

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    I'm a 5100 fan and this is bad news. I'll smoke my remaining little bit with reverence. However, I do remember that McClellands is a master craft blender of a wide variety of Virginia blends and I am pleased to be able to roam through the offerings and have on hand tins to smoke now and to age for the future. So as much as I lament the end of 5100, I commend their offerings. I'm looking fondly at my Christmas Cheer 2015 and my Navy Cavendish "smiling" down from the top of my pipe cabinet.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. alan73

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    I do believe PIpestud, while I do not believe some random posters. His livelihood is dependent on trust, he wouldn't make up a story. I have seen many posts that lack facts and lean towards gossip or worse sensational "click bait".

    I do wonder what this means for McClelland in general. Red Virginias make up a significant part of their available blends. I see an interview on the radio show, getting lots of airplay. Someone make it happen.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. cosmicfolklore

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    I've been calling every B&M possible to buy up remaining stock of 5100, but if all reds are in jeopardy, I may have to widen my hoarding to include all Virginias.
    Buys, the game is on. Time to buy, buy, buy... Whether it is truly the end of McClellands Pipe Tobacco or not, it doesn't sound good.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. cosmicfolklore

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    I do believe PIpestud, while I do not believe some random posters.

    You guys are getting sidetracked. I don't question Pipestud's validity, he just hasn't said anything that every single other McClelland's poster has said. The point is, hit those credit cards, and hit them hard!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. perdurabo

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    I think this is a false alarm. This is about McClelland standards. Crops will come and go. It's like wine. Some years suck. I think there may be something else at play.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. sablebrush52

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    Well, 5100 was officially retired last week and evidently McNeil was hoping to stave that off. I do find it hard to believe that they would throw out 500 lbs of leaf and not just sell it off elsewhere, but if it's been processed and has that McClelland signature Ketchup, maybe so.

    Bottom line, nothing has changed. There's no more 5100 coming your way. So if you're a big fan, get busy tracking down the tons of it in the wild before it truly goes away. It's expensive and it won't get any cheaper

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    theediabeticman

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    I spoke with Mike right after he ended his call with our PipeStud.
    What Steve is saying is true and Cosmic said hit those Credit cards...I second that.
    Not a false alarm...Mike gave me permission to post (known about this for months) that quality is not there and soon his product will not be produced anymore .

    Inspirational quote to be inserted during an inspirational moment
    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. beefeater33

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    Sad news for most, but Harris will be happy........... no more sore tongue for him..............

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."
    Willy Wonka
    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. admin

    Kevin Godbee

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    Sorry to hear. Thanks for the info PipeStud.

    We'll see if Mike wants to do an interview.

    Brian is still in the UK, and won't be back in time for this Tuesday's show, so we are moving it to Thursday for this week only.

    I just emailed him a link to this thread.

    Check Out Our - Pipes Podcast
    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. pipestud

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    And thank you, Kevin, for working on a follow-up to my "hearsay" opening post.

    Webster's definition of Hearsay -

    noun
    1.
    unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge:

    2.
    an item of idle or unverified information or gossip; rumor:

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. cosmicfolklore

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    Pipestud, I apologize. But, the reason that I used that word was because all of the other posts came from someone who had just heard from Mike and Mary also, and said the same things. Again, not to say that you are unreliable, but secondhand news is still not the same as from the horse's mouth. Your post was the same as the rest of the posts, where we had said that we needed more information.
    I apologize for not elaborating. I meant no slight on you, just a desire to hear more on what was going on, to help make sense of all of this.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. pipestud

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    No offense taken, Cosmic.

    All I did was respond to a direct request from Mike & Mary McNiel. I never thought for a moment that I was delivering old news, especially when just last night Mike told me that he and Mary wouldn't know whether 5100 would be produced again until after their taste tests were completed this morning. The McNiel's respect this particular forum so much that they wanted me to get the word out that they were ceasing production of 5100 to stop the rumors, not add to them. It was certainly not my intent, or the McNiel's, to add any speculation or rumors and I don't believed I conveyed either in my post. If I did, then I apologize, too.

    Pipetud

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. georged

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    ...but secondhand news is still not the same as from the horse's mouth.

    Depending on the character of the relayer of the news, it CAN be the same.

    Also, besides having an impeccable reputation, Steve was confirming what I said in last week's 5100 thread. And Mike and Mary live about three miles from me, we're in the same club, and I've known him for years.

    You are either very stubborn or not very perceptive.

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. cosmicfolklore

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    But Geored, the difference is that he cannot answer all of the further questions that will arise from the news, and as I said the last few posts about McClelland and 5100 said the same things. This didn't exactly squelch rumors any more than the last poster. It did NOT have any Barring on Steve's credibility, which is impeccable.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. cosmicfolklore

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    But, having them on the Radioshow is golden, and will maybe help get to the bottom of McClelland's future with Virginias.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. lazar

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    Fake news! Everyone knows that the FDA is to blame any and all negative news about tobacco.

    As for the impact on McC as a whole, I'm guessing they're discontinuing 5100 so they can use the limited quantities of Red VA in their more premium blends, rather than "wasting" it on bulks. Makes sense, and probably means those premium blends will have a longer lifespan.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. woodsroad

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    RED Virginia.
    RED Virginia.
    Why doesn't anyone else see this for what it is? It's Russian interference with the American pipe tobacco market. The Reds have us by the gonads!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. cigrmaster

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    Karma is a bitch. Maybe if red virginia didn't burn my tongue so bad, the pipe gods would make the crops come back.

    Actually since Steve is spreading hearsay and rumors, he should be made to sell all his blends with red virginia's for a 30% discount. Well Mr Hearsay what do you have to say for your self?

    Harris
    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. woodsroad

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    Honesty, if I didn't have 15 pounds cellared already, I'd be panicking.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. hawky454

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    Thanks for sharing, Pipe Stud. The stuff was too weak for me so this doesn’t affect me directly but I feel for those of you who adored the stuff. I’m concerened about how this may affect all their other blends, I thought that 5100 was a base to several of their other blends but I guess that was just speculation. I’m certainly worried about the future of McClelland’s Virginia flakes in general but as I said in the other thread of the same subject it’s great to know that McClelland has such high standards and integrity! I’m worried that from here on out all the McClelland’s Va flakes will be very hard to obtain now that there is a new element to worry about. I imagine people are going to start breaking the bank to get as much St. James Flake and 40th Anniversary as possible and you know how we roll, we have to buy up as much as possible and certainly more than one man can smoke by his loansome, just to be on the safe side. Please everyone, try to share and allow others the opportunity to get some for themselves.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. pylorns

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    I think its worse than just 5100... its the whole tobacco auction issue that no longer happens here in the US. Sooooo the growers that were growing for the auction are now specifically growing just for big tobacco. So no one is growing certain strains of pipe tobacco here in the US. It's not just 5100 that you can't get now from McClelland, its lots of bulk as well.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. pipestud

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    Karma is a bitch. Maybe if red virginia didn't burn my tongue so bad, the pipe gods would make the crops come back.

    Actually since Steve is spreading hearsay and rumors, he should be made to sell all his blends with red virginia's for a 30% discount. Well Mr Hearsay what do you have to say for your self?

    Harris

    I say keep your dastardly and evil thoughts to yourself, cigrmaster!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. balkisobrains

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    lazar
    As for the impact on McC as a whole, I'm guessing they're discontinuing 5100 so they can use the limited quantities of Red VA in their more premium blends, rather than "wasting" it on bulks. Makes sense, and probably means those premium blends will have a longer lifespan.

    That was my thought as well, in addition to not having retailers stacking back-orders for something that has no scheduled return date.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. cigrmaster

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    If I were a smoker of red virginia blends, I would be going after my favorites with a vengeance. If the Mc's are having problems sourcing good red's then I would assume there are other blenders running into the same issues.
    Will these other blenders stick to their principles like the McNiels, or will they use inferior leaf to keep their production numbers up? I would be willing to bet there are going to be some mfgs who will use this lesser leaf the McNiels won't touch.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. saltedplug

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    Is the forthcoming interview of the McNeils going to answer the questions that at this point we all have about their ability to stay in business? Because the the antis are coming, and if they hurt businesses, or at least harm, such as McClelland, they will have done their duty. Christmas Cheer and 5100 have been stable, staple tobaccos for as long as I can remember. It's frightening that they are gone.

    The sky may not be falling but it is certainly closer.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. woopigpiper

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    I can’t help but wonder if McCranie’s will be impacted, too?

    WooPigPiper
    u/feernot
    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. kcghost

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    This thread is very insulting to various people. Mike and Mary don't know what the internet is let alone use it. When you got the word from PipeStud its the same as getting it from them. Sorry you didn't get to ask whatever questions you had but that's how it goes. Steve and George are not your normal internet rumor monger like the guy who posted that Pease wasn't blending anymore. To put this in words that Mike would use "It's done, finished, kaput!" A few of us in the KC pipe club have known about this for months.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    theediabeticman

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    Thank you KC

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. saltedplug

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    Yes, I trust pipestud and gorged implicitly, certainly to report what Mike McNeil says at club meetings and over the phone, though like cosmic I would prefer that they talk to us on the forum directly. But as that is not their practice, I'm fine with the intermediaries that we have and thank them for their effort.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  37. cosmicfolklore

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    Insulting?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. crashthegrey

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    This is really bad news. Indefinitely out was bad, permanently is worse. I'm really hoping that there is some solution somewhere, eventually.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. georged

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    Insulting?

    Yup.

    I repeat: You are either very stubborn or not very perceptive.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. woodsroad

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    I get Cosmic's point. He has already apologized for his sub-optimal verbiage, so let's please get past that. This isn't about "trusting" Steve, most of us know that he is as trustworthy and forthcoming a person as you will find anywhere. It's about hearing from Mike or Mary directly, primarily because there are further questions we'd like to ask of them. Not about their business plans or secrets (although that would make for interesting conversation) but about the future of pipe tobacco leaf variety and quality.

    If they don't do interwebs, then OK, that's their choice and they are probably happier in life because of it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  41. jravenwood

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    THis is too bad...also sad to hear about mccranies

    "It is quite a three pipe problem..."
    Posted 1 year ago #
  42. ashdigger

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    Again, I'm not missing much.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 1 year ago #
  43. sablebrush52

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    This year's Red Virginia situation is starting to feel like last year's Syrian situation.

    Bummer.

    On a happy note, I have enough of both.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  44. ashdigger

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    Sable, that's my thoughts exactly. I'm fortunate to be stocked up. This is just fodder for speculation, rumination and exasperation.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  45. jmill208

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    If the Mc's are having problems sourcing good red's then I would assume there are other blenders running into the same issues.
    Will these other blenders stick to their principles like the McNiels, or will they use inferior leaf to keep their production numbers up? I would be willing to bet there are going to be some mfgs who will use this lesser leaf the McNiels won't touch.

    At the risk of fanning the flames of conjecture: This means that there is no acceptable product on the market to the McNiels standard, therefore every other blender currently selling a tobacco with red VA is producing a inferior blend. Interesting.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  46. jaytex969

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    I feel for you guys, but have personally no fond relationship with McClellend's VA's. Like cigrmaster, they hate my tongue.

    every other blender currently selling a tobacco with red VA is producing a inferior blend.

    As laypersons in the art of blending, I doubt we see the whole big picture. It may be that the VA's they are now finding will not produce the taste outcome they seek, but will still create the desired outcome of another producer. As their processing is unique to themselves, we don't know what form of voodoo they doo...

    Kind of like beef. A certain cut will still make my tacos turn out well, but may leave your Wellington dish not great.

    Gunner, Black Frigate. Say "Hello" to my little friend!
    Posted 1 year ago #
  47. woodsroad

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    The lack of information surrounding the demise of 5100 has led to some wild-assed speculation.

    Nature may abhor a vacuum, but pipe forums thrive in one!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  48. jaytex969

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    Looking at my carpet, there seems to be a vacuum lacking here...

    (Sorry- I'm loopy on a giant bowl of Brown Irish X right now!)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  49. menuhin

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    Sad to hear the news about the ending of these Red Virginia - a signature of many McClelland blends.

    To combine with the other thread also about Red Virginia (ed Virginia Shortage Affecting McCranie’s Too), it seems that Virginia leaves farmers are no longer:

    ...Flue-cured (Virginia) is not processed the way it used to be...

    If it is because the process method being not profitable, there can still be ways to have them produced in the future perhaps in smaller batches and by these organic independent farmers - there are more and more people growing their own tobacco leaves. As long as there is a pipe, there is a way.

    But we need to know what is the procedure and conditions of these flue-cured process, so that Red Virginia can still be reproduced by enthusiasts in the future.

    Otherwise, I will miss the ketchup tin smell forever until the day I have to rest.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  50. sablebrush52

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    If it is because the process method being not profitable, there can still be ways to have them produced in the future perhaps in smaller batches and by these organic independent farmers - there are more and more people growing their own tobacco leaves. As long as there is a pipe, there is a way.

    But we need to know what is the procedure and conditions of these flue-cured process, so that Red Virginia can still be reproduced by enthusiasts in the future.

    Otherwise, I will miss the ketchup tin smell forever until the day I have to rest.

    Any way it happens, there must be a profit sufficient to warrant the effort. Woodsroad may have been right about cigarette manufacturers driving what gets made and what doesn't. Small batch boutique manufacturers aren't likely to produce product at a lesser price point. BTW, the ketchup isn't because of the flue curing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  51. balkisobrains

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    jmill208

    At the risk of fanning the flames of conjecture: This means that there is no acceptable product on the market to the McNiels standard, therefore every other blender currently selling a tobacco with red VA is producing a inferior blend.

    Not necessarily. Euro blenders might buy stock over there that we would never see.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    gnarlybriar

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    That's the rub, Menuhin. It will take a stoked and resourceful individual to find/convince those farmers to produce such leaf, bear the expense of growing/harvesting/pulling/curing it - at quite a risk, unless someone wants to put up the $'s for such a project. It IS possible, but then it has to be processed with the skill and love of someone like Mike McNiel - and there aren't many people in this world with the audacity, love and stamina to do so, God bless him/her!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  53. menuhin

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    ...to find/convince those farmers to produce such leaf, bear the expense of growing/harvesting/pulling/curing it - at quite a risk, unless someone wants to put up the $'s for such a project...

    From a few posts up, it seems there in the current system of Tobacco leaves trade / auctioning, there is no such a chance for the farmers to change the price to produce flue-cured in such an old and beloved way.

    @sablebrush52
    Oh right, you reminded me of one or two in-depth threads that discussed the ketchup smell a few years back. That tin smell is, however, what I also have associated with McClelland's Red Virginia taste in my pipe.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  54. balkisobrains

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    In his radio interview it sounded like the pipe tobacco market already gets the scraps for the most part, except for him and maybe a handful of other guys who have connections and are able to get some of the best stuff before it gets bought up by the cig companies. So if the crops are bad or thin and not even a good connection can help, what are you going to do?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  55. perdurabo

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    The ketchup is vinager, right.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  56. brightleaf

    brightleaf

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    What episode or date was the radio interview?

    POSSIBLY, contentment is not only the chief element of life, but also one of the very foundations of society. If this be so, then as Tobacco is the enemy of malice, friend of virtue, and a direct cause for content, its use should be encouraged. -J.W. Cundall 1901
    Posted 1 year ago #
  57. gentlytamped

    Andrew (gentlytamped)

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    I'm pretty bummed out about this news. Living in Hungary it was hard enough so far to get any McClelland blends and I've never tried 5100 red cake. As a virginia lover I would've loved to but I guess I need to forget it...

    I'm a Virginia lover from Budapest, Hungary.
    My favorite pipe shape is rhodesian and blowfish but have many others in my collection.
    If you want, join and smoke a bowl with me on any social media @ gentlytamped
    Posted 1 year ago #
  58. raevans

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    IMHO, this has been going on for quite sometime. I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the last true tobacco auction in Wilson NC some years ago. Must have been at least twelve to fifteen years ago. Even at that point, the farmers, and buyers, were talking about how drastically the industry would change. Since then, the farmers have changed how they do business. Not so much by choice, but more of an economic decision.

    Part of the blame can be attributed to the Federal Government. They came in and have done everything possible to get the farmers to quit growing tobacco. They offered subsidies to farmers in order to get them to abandon tobacco for soybean, corn, etc.

    Another part of the issue is the way farming has changed. I have talked to a number of farmers who grow tobacco, and many of them have said that tobacco paid for their kids college. The problem is that many of those kids do not want to be farmers and do not come back home to take over the family business. So I have a feeling that many of the tobacco farmers are the last of the line and once they retire, their farms will be sold and bye bye tobacco, hello condos.

    A big part of the problem began when the auctions ended. Now farmers sell their crop direct with a pre set price. It really doesn't matter how "top of the line" their crop is. The majority will go to cigarettes and with all of the chemical enhancement that is done to them, it really doesn't matter about the tobacco itself. Growing tobacco is a labor of love effort. It is very time consuming when growing a particular type of leaf, but if your just growing a standard, run of the mill, leaf for Phillip Morris, it is much less time consuming. From a growers perspective, it makes economic sense to grow something that requires less time and effort.

    I think that many of the blenders saw this coming and probably stocked up on as much quality tobacco while they could. But as time goes on, those stock piles will run out. Then the blender will have to make some hard decisions, I think that we are seeing one of those hard decisions now with 5100 and I am sure that we will see more of our favorite blends being discontinued as time goes on.

    In my opinion, and it's only an opinion so take it for what it's worth, we have spent so much time fighting the anti-tobacco legislation, gaining a small victory here and there, but we failed to take a look at the bigger picture. The source. As it has been said a few times in this thread, pull out you credit card and buy, buy, buy. That's not a "sky is falling" statement, that is being said based on what has been happening for well over a decade plus in the industry.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  59. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    Mike also said that quality Red Virginia is becoming extremely difficult to locate these days and that he doesn't expect that will improve any time soon.

    Disturbing...


    A big part of the problem began when the auctions ended. Now farmers sell their crop direct with a pre set price. It really doesn't matter how "top of the line" their crop is.

    Sounds like the reason right there. If any red Virginia is as good as any other, why bother?

    There might be a need for a farm-to-market pipeline for pipe smoking tobacco. Or a co-op.

    "My own experience has been that the tools I need for my trade are paper, tobacco, food, and a little whiskey." -- William Faulkner

    The Metal Mixtures
    Posted 1 year ago #
  60. orobusto

    orobusto

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    I believe there are some cigar companies that grow their own leaf. I'm sure there is a reason pipe tobacco don't. Any ideas why not?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  61. raevans

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    Could be the cost. If a company is asking a farmer to grow something unique, it will be more time consuming and end up costing more to produce. That cost would be passed on to the consumer. How much is a person willing to pay for a tin of their favorite tobacco blend and would the company be able to sell enough to show a profit?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  62. menuhin

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    They can raise the price to test it out, I believe many people are willing to pay a higher price.
    My concern is more about the production being sustainable or not.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  63. leacha

    leacha

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    Sounds like Red Virginia can be another item Mark Ryan can add to his portfolio.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  64. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Here's one way for a big pushback. Simple to explain, hard to implement:

    Get all the major US blenders to get together to contract for 6,000 tons of Virginias, 8,000 tons of burley, 500 tons of perique, etc. Etc. Order together as a coop. If not known now, it will soon be known who the good farmers are, and they'll want in on this for the premium price.

    All I want from this is a case of tobaccos from each blender in this new coop.

    (And the figures above are WAGs. Not even guesses, just numbers.)

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  65. admin

    Kevin Godbee

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    jnielson

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    This site still shows in stock:
    http://elfumador.com/All%20McClelland%20Pipe%20Tobaccos.html

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    jeremyreeves

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    As laypersons in the art of blending, I doubt we see the whole big picture. It may be that the VA's they are now finding will not produce the taste outcome they seek, but will still create the desired outcome of another producer. As their processing is unique to themselves, we don't know what form of voodoo they doo...

    +1

    Posted 1 year ago #
  68. weedsnager

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    I can get it for $79 a pound if anyone needs some, they have a few pounds left

    Posted 1 year ago #
  69. thesillyoldbear

    thesillyoldbear

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    As laypersons in the art of blending, I doubt we see the whole big picture. It may be that the VA's they are now finding will not produce the taste outcome they seek, but will still create the desired outcome of another producer. As their processing is unique to themselves, we don't know what form of voodoo they doo...

    Kind of like beef. A certain cut will still make my tacos turn out well, but may leave your Wellington dish not great.

    +1

    Marketing Manager, Smokingpipes Europe
    Posted 1 year ago #
  70. tedswearingen

    tedswearingen

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    I doubt we see the whole big picture. It may be that the VA's they are now finding will not produce the taste outcome they seek, but will still create the desired outcome of another producer. As their processing is unique to themselves, we don't know what form of voodoo they doo..

    +1

    Superior Service, Superior Quality, Superior Pipes - http://www.smokingpipes.com
    Posted 1 year ago #

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