With so many seasoned pipe smokers applauding the virtues of cellaring tobacco for many years, why don’t pipe tobacco manufacturers age and label the product as is done with fine whiskey?
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Virtues of cellaring tobacco
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They used to! Dunhill had a blend called "three year matured" and their tobaccos supposedly had a "pungent/rotten" aroma when initially opened due to proper aging. With the decline of pipe smoking in the 60s/70s and decreasing availability of certain types of leaf, this awesome practice has become much more rare.
I've found that some blends get way better even with a year or two of aging, its worth the wait :D
I've found that some blends get way better even with a year or two of aging, its worth the wait :D
Will Aro's lose their flavoring over time? What is the longest that one should mason jar Aro's for?
Greg Pease wrote an article for PM.com called Saving For A Rainy Day. It covers most of the issues.
While I appreciate the changes that can take place during aging, I think I still prefer the exuberance of fresh tobaccos.
While I appreciate the changes that can take place during aging, I think I still prefer the exuberance of fresh tobaccos.
Cellaring isn't really that widespread. As Per Jensen of Mac Baren Tobacco has said, it's mostly an American phenomena and relatively new. What we see of old tins hitting the market has mostly been stashes from dead hoarders and forgotten treasures rediscovered. The idea of purposefully storing tobacco for aging just hasn't been a widespread concept, and most tobacco manufacturers hadn't been taking that into consideration. All of them consider their product ready to smoke right off the shelf. GLP seems to be the main force behind the concept, but I imagine eventually as the concept grows across the globe, the more the companies will start dating tins. However, I'm not even sure if America is the leading consumer in the pipe hobby.
There are a few companies that date their tins, Mac Baren and McClelland come to mind.
It would be nice if all tobacco houses did that as well. As cosmic said, maybe more companies will start doing so as the concept of cellaring catches on.
It would be nice if all tobacco houses did that as well. As cosmic said, maybe more companies will start doing so as the concept of cellaring catches on.
Thanks latbomber for the historical tidbit on Dunhill.
And I finally have a reason to seek out estate sales, mmmmmm the tobacco, thanks cosmic folklore.
Now I’ll be on the lookout for some date labeled tins by Mac Baren and McClelland. You’ve just given me a reason to expand my horizons petes03.
As far as dating tins goes, I suppose for some of us it would be the cat’s meow but I can also picture a backlash potential for manufacturers. We love our coffee fresh and our spirits aged, and our tobacco?
Dot
And I finally have a reason to seek out estate sales, mmmmmm the tobacco, thanks cosmic folklore.
Now I’ll be on the lookout for some date labeled tins by Mac Baren and McClelland. You’ve just given me a reason to expand my horizons petes03.
As far as dating tins goes, I suppose for some of us it would be the cat’s meow but I can also picture a backlash potential for manufacturers. We love our coffee fresh and our spirits aged, and our tobacco?
Dot
I am new...ish. I have been smoking a pipe for going on 3 years now. I cellar to accumulate tobacco. I don't smoke many aros so it works out for me. I am saving and buy while it is at the price it is now, plus unlike whiskey the tobacco isn't aged in a barrel. It's not like you can age a whiskey at home after purchase it's not the same as sitting in a barrel for 12 years. I am cellaring tobacco to save it for when the pries become exorbitant or is gone altogether...then maybe better taste due to aging. in that order. I have about 30# so far... no where near Peck's 600+#...kudos brother... if the tobaccolypse happens...party at Peck's house.
McClelland, Pease, and C&D all date-label their tins on the bottom. Dunhill, Rattray, Germain, and most others I can think of do not.
As for "age and label their tins" -- if you mean like a "vintage," this would be impossible. Nobody, to my knowledge, is producing pipe tobacco made from a single year's crop. Most blenders are using leaf that may be three years old -- or may be 10 years old and more. After all, every tin of MacBaren's HH Old Dark Fired includes leaf from the 1970s! What kind of date would you put on that tin?
Bob
As for "age and label their tins" -- if you mean like a "vintage," this would be impossible. Nobody, to my knowledge, is producing pipe tobacco made from a single year's crop. Most blenders are using leaf that may be three years old -- or may be 10 years old and more. After all, every tin of MacBaren's HH Old Dark Fired includes leaf from the 1970s! What kind of date would you put on that tin?
Bob
I'm 67 yoa and am not leaving any unopened tins around for my son-in-law to enjoy after the funeral. He and my daughter will get a bit of the old estate but, no tobacco. Laying on my death bed would be excruciating if I knew I was leaving behind an expensive collection of tobacco. I love 'em both, the kids, just not that much!
When the time comes, just pile the tobacco up in a rowboat, set me on top of it with a few pipes in my mouth, light that baby up, and push me out to sea. There ain't nobody who would pay top dollar for a jar of something, lol.
I've been smoking a pipe for over a decade and by accident, have managed to age some tins during this time. Is there a difference? In my opinion, not enough of one to dedicate time and worry to aging. If anything, I find blends to lose their appeal with age. Full Virginia Flake is one of them for me. I smoked a few tins of this that was at least 5 years old, probably much more, and found it very... underwhelming. Same goes for many other blends. To me, that "mellow" taste of age is muddy and frankly... boring. Most blenders blend for us to taste it fresh, so aging is more of a crapshoot than anything. Sometimes it's ok, and other times it's just stale (flavour wise).
Some people go nuts for age. Personally, I think it's something cooked up by tobacco blenders to get more sales. Here's looking at you GL Pease! Of course, I'm a big fan of his blends, so my conspiracy theories may be best left unsaid. But now I've said it. The power of suggestion, especially in marketing, is very... very strong. It's so strong that you'd do well to read a couple of books on it to see how often we're tricked into thinking certain things. Cigarettes don't cause cancer? The industry threw everything they had at that one, and for good reason, from a business perspective. Note: I don't think saying aged tobaccos are magnificent and that saying cigarettes don't cause cancer are even in the same ballpark, as far as devious marketing is concerned. Still, I think it's been trumped up to more than it is for economic reasons. It's clever, and the suggestion that it's going to be better is, well, good. Also, when you sit on some tins for 5+ years, I suspect we're more inclined to believe that they are better because of the effort (and sometimes, suffering) that we put into that age. Not many people will wait five years for something, with high expectation, and then say it's crap. It's just the way we work.
Hoarding tobacco from an economical perspective makes sense. It's only going to get more expensive, but that being said, I'm happy to fork over a few more bucks for fresh tobacco. I think it tastes better and is much more rich than the more muddled taste I get from a lot of age. But then again, some people like mud puddles over clear water, so what the hell do I know?
Hopefully that doesn't set your pants on fire...
Some people go nuts for age. Personally, I think it's something cooked up by tobacco blenders to get more sales. Here's looking at you GL Pease! Of course, I'm a big fan of his blends, so my conspiracy theories may be best left unsaid. But now I've said it. The power of suggestion, especially in marketing, is very... very strong. It's so strong that you'd do well to read a couple of books on it to see how often we're tricked into thinking certain things. Cigarettes don't cause cancer? The industry threw everything they had at that one, and for good reason, from a business perspective. Note: I don't think saying aged tobaccos are magnificent and that saying cigarettes don't cause cancer are even in the same ballpark, as far as devious marketing is concerned. Still, I think it's been trumped up to more than it is for economic reasons. It's clever, and the suggestion that it's going to be better is, well, good. Also, when you sit on some tins for 5+ years, I suspect we're more inclined to believe that they are better because of the effort (and sometimes, suffering) that we put into that age. Not many people will wait five years for something, with high expectation, and then say it's crap. It's just the way we work.
Hoarding tobacco from an economical perspective makes sense. It's only going to get more expensive, but that being said, I'm happy to fork over a few more bucks for fresh tobacco. I think it tastes better and is much more rich than the more muddled taste I get from a lot of age. But then again, some people like mud puddles over clear water, so what the hell do I know?
Hopefully that doesn't set your pants on fire...
I am pretty sure McClelland will pre-age some of their tobacco. Last year I purchased a tin of Yenice Agonia (Grand Oriental Line) from my local tobacconist that was from 2007. I loved it so much that I had to get more. I placed an order from 4Noggins, low and behold, the tins I received from them were also from 2007. There is no way both retailers aged the same tobacco for the same amount of time and just decided to sell them to me at no additional charge. So they must have received this aged supply directly from McClelland.
As far as aging goes: I agree that the effects may be overstated, but I can tell a difference between a fresh tin of Blackpoint and the 7 year old tin I've got open now. The colors darken, the flavors deepen, and most importantly, things meld. It's less like tasting components and more like tasting everything at once. But I will agree that the effects are overstated sometimes, and a bad blend doesn't magically become good after two years in the tin. It's more like the aged tins give more of what I like about most blends. I bet there are some blends that are better fresh, but I smoke GLP tobaccos mostly, and I think he intends his to age and meld.
I am in the camp that aged tobacco does get better but only to a point. I have had some sublime smokes from thirty year old blends but you do hit a point of diminishing returns. I mostly cellared for when times would be tough, either financially or due to excessive taxation/banning. The benefits of aging are just a bonus. I've hit the stage where I am no longer buying large quantities of tobacco, no where near Peck and Harris but enough to keep me going until I depart this plane of existence.
Thanks rmbittner for the valuable lesson as this is exactly the reason I opened this thread. It seems that in many cases we’re already smoking an aged tobacco as a component in the blend and it would be far too complex to date every leaf type used.
What I’ve learned so far is that some (i.e. Cortez) like it fresh and others (i.e. northernneil) like it aged. I am now convinced that certain blends tend to marry the flavors over time (escioe) and others are simply better smoked fresh.
Despite the possible limits on the value of aging (unadoptedlamp, mrenglish), I hope to purchase more tobacco than I could ever smoke for a much less practical reason. I simply would love to step into my tobacco room full of tins, jars and pouches of an endless variety of blends just for the pure and utter self indulgence. The idea of having a fellow pipe smoker or two over at the house for dinner and being able to stroll into my tobacco room, look over the famous and obscure blends together, make a unanimous choice, open up something one of us recommends to the others, or something none of has ever tried and share the experience – wow – could pipe smoking camaraderie get any better. I’m sure for some this is a reality, for me it’s still a pipe dream.
Dot
P.S. Andrew, thanks for the tip on the McClellend's Christmas cheer. Gotta get me some!
What I’ve learned so far is that some (i.e. Cortez) like it fresh and others (i.e. northernneil) like it aged. I am now convinced that certain blends tend to marry the flavors over time (escioe) and others are simply better smoked fresh.
Despite the possible limits on the value of aging (unadoptedlamp, mrenglish), I hope to purchase more tobacco than I could ever smoke for a much less practical reason. I simply would love to step into my tobacco room full of tins, jars and pouches of an endless variety of blends just for the pure and utter self indulgence. The idea of having a fellow pipe smoker or two over at the house for dinner and being able to stroll into my tobacco room, look over the famous and obscure blends together, make a unanimous choice, open up something one of us recommends to the others, or something none of has ever tried and share the experience – wow – could pipe smoking camaraderie get any better. I’m sure for some this is a reality, for me it’s still a pipe dream.
Dot
P.S. Andrew, thanks for the tip on the McClellend's Christmas cheer. Gotta get me some!
Dot:
I'll just add -- and I've said this here before, so forgive me if you've seen this opinion already -- but the only blend I strongly prefer "fresh" is Penzance. For me, it changes significantly after I've owned it for even a year. There is a unique zing in the tin when fresh that dissipates after about a year. Longer than that, and Penzance slips from being "phenomenal" to being "really good."
That doesn't mean I haven't been cellaring Penzance, though! Even though I prefer it fresh, I prefer having aged Penzance to not having any at all!
And I realize this is an entirely unhelpful blend to offer up for comparison; these days, it's very hard to get any sort of Penzance whatsoever, so fresh/aged is kind of a moot point. (And I also know that Penzance is not everyone's cup of tea. But it is my "Arcadia" blend -- a blend that I strongly prefer over every other blend I've ever tried.)
Bob
I'll just add -- and I've said this here before, so forgive me if you've seen this opinion already -- but the only blend I strongly prefer "fresh" is Penzance. For me, it changes significantly after I've owned it for even a year. There is a unique zing in the tin when fresh that dissipates after about a year. Longer than that, and Penzance slips from being "phenomenal" to being "really good."
That doesn't mean I haven't been cellaring Penzance, though! Even though I prefer it fresh, I prefer having aged Penzance to not having any at all!
And I realize this is an entirely unhelpful blend to offer up for comparison; these days, it's very hard to get any sort of Penzance whatsoever, so fresh/aged is kind of a moot point. (And I also know that Penzance is not everyone's cup of tea. But it is my "Arcadia" blend -- a blend that I strongly prefer over every other blend I've ever tried.)
Bob
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