Peterson Mark Twain 1981 Anomaly

[pappymac]

Hey, to be a 'Geek', all you have to do is declare yourself such!

Not true. You have to have one of these...

 

[runscott]

All I told him was that he just needs to read the PetersonPipeNotes blog, participate in any event, and he'll get sent a PDF certificate.

I hate to quote myself, but here you go...

 

[kcghost]

Somedays the Peterson guys just do things different to get us Americans fired up.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Well, I was looking for unbiased ideas about this stamp, but my personal thoughts were that they made the 'odd' stamp first - number unknown - then decided it wasn't so great and went to the one we're familiar with. Since it was in a normal box with papers, I'm guessing they made a number of these before changing the stamp, and someone will chime in here with another example.

But the terrible line down the side really surprises me - it was an original 1981 issue, so you'd think that on an early run example they would notice things like this and at least finish the stem correctly.

Hey, it was just an oddity I thought I'd share for discussion, so thanks to all. I have plenty of Peterson oddities that I'll share as time permits.

Is it possible this was an early example for a salesman to show to dealers in its potential packaging? Sort of a prototype or dummy version—this might explain the seam on the stem and it being in the red box—before the limited production was actually done? If this this is the case, it’s a shame the seam was reduced (not to make you feel bad).

In the book collecting world, proof dust jackets are seen that differ wildly from the final release. It wouldn’t surprise me that a test pipe got out into the wild.

 

[runscott]

Is it possible this was an early example for a salesman to show to dealers in its potential packaging? Sort of a prototype or dummy version—this might explain the seam on the stem and it being in the red box—before the limited production was actually done? If this this is the case, it’s a shame the seam was reduced (not to make you feel bad).

In the book collecting world, proof dust jackets are seen that differ wildly from the final release. It wouldn’t surprise me that a test pipe got out into the wild.

The red box is the same packaging as the non-numbered 1981 pipes. As far as the seam goes - it was actually a ridge when I received the pipe. I sanded it down smooth, but didn't attempt to hide it completely, as it still provides historical information. But I see your point. The only other Mark Twain I had handled before this one was a 1984 in a grey box, so I figured it was a production problem that they had fixed by 1984.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

The red box is the same packaging as the non-numbered 1981 pipes. As far as the seam goes - it was actually a ridge when I received the pipe. I sanded it down smooth, but didn't attempt to hide it completely, as it still provides historical information. But I see your point. The only other Mark Twain I had handled before this one was a 1984 in a grey box, so I figured it was a production problem that they had fixed by 1984.

Everything we come up with will be speculation. There is an assumption that this is a production pipe that was for sale via a store to the general public. Unless there’s provenance with a sales slip and a back story from the person who originally purchased the pipe, we really have no way of knowing the red box actually came with the pipe; any seller or previous owner before you could have married the two items together.

I think about all the stories you hear about a friend or family member worked for a company and got a hold of some prototype of something the company made.

“Wow, that's cool!”

“You want it? I’ve had it for years. They were lying around in the sales rep’s office and were going to get tossed. So I grabbed a few. That’s my last one, but it’s yours if you want it.”

“Wow! Thanks!”

Regardless, your anomaly is very cool. I hope we find a clear answer.

 

[runscott]

Everything we come up with will be speculation. There is an assumption that this is a production pipe that was for sale via a store to the general public. Unless there’s provenance with a sales slip and a back story from the person who originally purchased the pipe, we really have no way of knowing the red box actually came with the pipe; any seller or previous owner before you could have married the two items together.

I think about all the stories you hear about a friend or family member worked for a company and got a hold of some prototype of something the company made.

“Wow, that's cool!”

“You want it? I’ve had it for years. They were lying around in the sales rep’s office and were going to get tossed. So I grabbed a few. That’s my last one, but it’s yours if you want it.”

“Wow! Thanks!”

Regardless, your anomaly is very cool. I hope we find a clear answer.

I agree whole-heartedly with everything you just said. I was trying to avoid adding my own personal speculation to this thread, as I didn't want my thoughts influencing others. I don't personally think it's a prototype, but if I did believe that, and stated it, some here would think this was an advertising thread. To the contrary, my Peterson 'anomaly' pipes will probably have to be handled by my heirs - no intention of selling any of them.

I did show it to Mark I back when I got it, and he had not seen the stamp before.

 

[Hillcrest]

Yet they only produced 1 ?!?!?

Its like the Willy Wonka ticket ... you get to run the factory now !! Press the button now !

 

[jpberg]

OP, you know more about Pete’s than 99% of the website fanboys, most of whom bought their first Pete in the last ten years.
You’ll have to ask Pete to ask Paddy about it. That’s as good a start as any.

 

[runscott]

OP, you know more about Pete’s than 99% of the website fanboys, most of whom bought their first Pete in the last ten years.
You’ll have to ask Pete to ask Paddy about it. That’s as good a start as any.

Thanks. This was really a 'Hail Mary' post, hoping someone out there had one similar and/or knew the story.

I'll ask Mark to ask Paddy (who just turned 100, by the way!)

 

[Pipeoff]

The factory workers in Dublin must have had a pint before the shift ?

 

[runscott]

The factory workers in Dublin must have had a pint before the shift ?

Very likely. The funny thing about Peterson stamps is that they apparently never tossed any of them. So when someone was stamping a pipe, they could grab any stamp in their work area. We see plenty of 'Made in Ireland' variation stamps that we can prove were used in the 'Eire' stamp or 'Irish Free State' stamp periods. And I've had quite a few 1970's pipes (proven by date hallmarks) with 'Made in Ireland' circle stamps.

So your theory is as good as any - someone might have created a 'Mark Twain' stamp that should have ended up in the trash;i.e-the boss said: "No, that's too big - looks stupid. Try again." But someone found it lying around, read 'Mark Twain' on it, and stamped a few pipes.

 

[tobakenist]

I have over 200 Petersons currently and have sold 100 or so in the last few years. Trust me - this is an anomaly. The stamp is the main issue - did I already say that?

Only 200, your slacking, you are wrong and apologize to the OP for your wrong account, you were wrong and admit it, Peterson stamps were nether perfect, I know it from 50yrs of collecting, I have no respect for you for your comments, I have a massive collection, some from my Grandfather in 1965. you were insulting to the OP and should apologize, you nearly made him leave this forum because of your comments, you should leave, A good job I didn't report you, this Forum is for good information and not for slagging.

 

[runscott]

Only 200, your slacking, you are wrong and apologize to the OP for your wrong account, you were wrong and admit it, Peterson stamps were nether perfect, I know it from 50yrs of collecting, I have no respect for you for your comments, I have a massive collection, some from my Grandfather in 1965. you were insulting to the OP and should apologize, you nearly made him leave this forum because of your comments, you should leave, A good job I didn't report you, this Forum is for good information and not for slagging.

 

[tobakenist]

About Time.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

I’ve never seen a Twain stamp that big but if I had to speculate, I’d say it was made to used on non-sequential pipes but they found out pretty quickly that it was to big to be viable and discontinued it’s use quickly. I suspect they just went back to using the same stamp as the sequential pipes and the vast majority got that stamp as opposed to the large unwieldy stamp that was difficult to use. Just a theory.

 

[AroEnglish]

Very likely. The funny thing about Peterson stamps is that they apparently never tossed any of them. So when someone was stamping a pipe, they could grab any stamp in their work area. We see plenty of 'Made in Ireland' variation stamps that we can prove were used in the 'Eire' stamp or 'Irish Free State' stamp periods. And I've had quite a few 1970's pipes (proven by date hallmarks) with 'Made in Ireland' circle stamps.

So your theory is as good as any - someone might have created a 'Mark Twain' stamp that should have ended up in the trash;i.e-the boss said: "No, that's too big - looks stupid. Try again." But someone found it lying around, read 'Mark Twain' on it, and stamped a few pipes.

What years were the "Made in Ireland" stamp supposed to be used?

 

[runscott]

What years were the "Made in Ireland" stamp supposed to be used?

According to Mark Irwin's book 'The Peterson Pipe', 'Made in' over 'Ireland' began in 1922 and is still being used - I have one hallmarked 1923. 'Made in Ireland' in a circle, according to his book, was 1945-72.

 

[carp rides again]

It was probably made on a Monday or a Friday