How is a hand made briar pipe's price determined and how much of that price is simply associated to demand raising the suggested retail?
I'm not thinking of basket pipes or multiple replicated factory pipes based on an original form. I am trying to see what retail mark up is for a good entry level unsmoked hand made briar pipe. Lets for example use an ebochaun from the outside layer of a Mediterranean Heath burl aged 50 years prior to being harvested. I am also not thinking of stopping in at Jess Chonowitch's place over coffee and having him make me one right there and then; kidding of course, that would never happen as I'd expect to pay $5000 for that fantasy purchase at least but you get the idea I hope.
Being new to this hobby but seriously hooked I am trying to educate myself on what is actual value and what is retail mark up. I have no issue with a guy trying to make a profit but how much profit is simply based on luxury (ie the market demand will pay that amount) and how much is solid actual value outside of the fashion aspect. Reason I ask is I have been reading some reputable books on the subject and watching interviews on Youtube of world famous carvers and how they price pipes. My reading in particular is from a 1965 book by Carl Weber where in his opinion a good briar will start at $15 US (he referenced basket pipe prices separately) which I calculated out in today's dollars is actually $120 US now. I also watched a interview on Youtube with Mr Jess Chonowitch who mentions he had been approached by international retailers and collectors who offered him 50% to I think 70% over his usual price for his pieces many years ago when the Americans were building the briar pipe market in the US. I also read a book by R. Newcombe titled "In Search of Pipe Dreams" where he documents himself actually meeting with these international artisans and discussing US markets for for their pipes.
So that is where I am basing my question. Much like womens haircut fees, clothing or jewelery is marked up 4 times its value due to it being a fashion industry (I pay the bills here so I see what it costs my wife) is it the same for briar pipes. Yes I understand availability and market demand determines the price. A hand made pipe is a one and only version and the hours involved to make it are quite extensive. I am also aware perhaps most briar ebochauns are perhaps only 50 years old now as opposed to 200 years old - big difference in value I am sure. I am also aware different parts of a Heath burl produce better ebochauns and are priced accordingly; outer being more expensive due to denser grain. What percent is mark up and how much of the price is real material and labour.
As an example I looked at smokingpipes,com and found 80 Dunhills and their associated prices deleting the high end kits ($3000 US) and entry level prices ($450 US). I calculated that a Dunhill average asking price is $700 roughly. Once again I am not looking to offend anyone's values in any one brand or a retailers pipe pricing strategy. They set the price its up to me to accept that price but that is hard to do given my ignorance of this new hobby. I am trying to understand what mark up is so that if I see a great pipe in Ebay I will know values and be ready to take a chance on a good briar despite the price tag shock without being taken for a ride. There are retailers out there who do misrepresent their products as I have been stung in the past for instance only later learning about pressed and block Meerschaum when I bought a $400 Meer Calabash from over seas. I bought an advertised block Meer but I received a pressed Meer bowl instead which promptly cracked in a day. Lesson learned!
So if the Weber text is saying I will be looking at $120 for a good unsmoked pipe (note he was not identifying Dunhill I just grabbed that as an example) where does the other $500 come from in the Dunhill example? I hope and trust that is a fair example to use. Based on my limited experience that previously calculated $700 Dunhill average then includes at least $400 mark up for a suggested retail sale price. If everyone will pay that, and if I want it, I better "strap on a pair" and hit the Ebay "buy it now" button. I am hoping to learn how to ensure I am getting a fair deal when buying pipes I can't hold first by determining what the 'fashion percentage' is in pipe pricing. If I want a specific pipe but a portion of the retail cost of having it means I have to give up $500 just for that privilege then I will pass as I am not a seasoned collector. I just really like pipes!
I'm not thinking of basket pipes or multiple replicated factory pipes based on an original form. I am trying to see what retail mark up is for a good entry level unsmoked hand made briar pipe. Lets for example use an ebochaun from the outside layer of a Mediterranean Heath burl aged 50 years prior to being harvested. I am also not thinking of stopping in at Jess Chonowitch's place over coffee and having him make me one right there and then; kidding of course, that would never happen as I'd expect to pay $5000 for that fantasy purchase at least but you get the idea I hope.
Being new to this hobby but seriously hooked I am trying to educate myself on what is actual value and what is retail mark up. I have no issue with a guy trying to make a profit but how much profit is simply based on luxury (ie the market demand will pay that amount) and how much is solid actual value outside of the fashion aspect. Reason I ask is I have been reading some reputable books on the subject and watching interviews on Youtube of world famous carvers and how they price pipes. My reading in particular is from a 1965 book by Carl Weber where in his opinion a good briar will start at $15 US (he referenced basket pipe prices separately) which I calculated out in today's dollars is actually $120 US now. I also watched a interview on Youtube with Mr Jess Chonowitch who mentions he had been approached by international retailers and collectors who offered him 50% to I think 70% over his usual price for his pieces many years ago when the Americans were building the briar pipe market in the US. I also read a book by R. Newcombe titled "In Search of Pipe Dreams" where he documents himself actually meeting with these international artisans and discussing US markets for for their pipes.
So that is where I am basing my question. Much like womens haircut fees, clothing or jewelery is marked up 4 times its value due to it being a fashion industry (I pay the bills here so I see what it costs my wife) is it the same for briar pipes. Yes I understand availability and market demand determines the price. A hand made pipe is a one and only version and the hours involved to make it are quite extensive. I am also aware perhaps most briar ebochauns are perhaps only 50 years old now as opposed to 200 years old - big difference in value I am sure. I am also aware different parts of a Heath burl produce better ebochauns and are priced accordingly; outer being more expensive due to denser grain. What percent is mark up and how much of the price is real material and labour.
As an example I looked at smokingpipes,com and found 80 Dunhills and their associated prices deleting the high end kits ($3000 US) and entry level prices ($450 US). I calculated that a Dunhill average asking price is $700 roughly. Once again I am not looking to offend anyone's values in any one brand or a retailers pipe pricing strategy. They set the price its up to me to accept that price but that is hard to do given my ignorance of this new hobby. I am trying to understand what mark up is so that if I see a great pipe in Ebay I will know values and be ready to take a chance on a good briar despite the price tag shock without being taken for a ride. There are retailers out there who do misrepresent their products as I have been stung in the past for instance only later learning about pressed and block Meerschaum when I bought a $400 Meer Calabash from over seas. I bought an advertised block Meer but I received a pressed Meer bowl instead which promptly cracked in a day. Lesson learned!
So if the Weber text is saying I will be looking at $120 for a good unsmoked pipe (note he was not identifying Dunhill I just grabbed that as an example) where does the other $500 come from in the Dunhill example? I hope and trust that is a fair example to use. Based on my limited experience that previously calculated $700 Dunhill average then includes at least $400 mark up for a suggested retail sale price. If everyone will pay that, and if I want it, I better "strap on a pair" and hit the Ebay "buy it now" button. I am hoping to learn how to ensure I am getting a fair deal when buying pipes I can't hold first by determining what the 'fashion percentage' is in pipe pricing. If I want a specific pipe but a portion of the retail cost of having it means I have to give up $500 just for that privilege then I will pass as I am not a seasoned collector. I just really like pipes!