WTF IS In My Tobacco?

[latbomber]

@Woodsroad: El Laguito and H Upmann (although at that one they roll all brands depending on the day, the day I was there it was Partagas and Cohiba Siglo IVs from what I saw) You make a good point about pesticides, but there were many Cubans I met there who had been rollers/smokers for many decades and didn't have three arms or extra eyes so it can't be that bad lol.
Also as a side note, the cigars that rollers make for themselves to take home are unbelievable, torpedoes that are 22cm long and 3-4cm thick!

 

[frankenstein]

woodsroad: A list of ingredients in C&D tobacco would be very interesting.

 

[kalvort]

@Woodsroad thank you so much for your answer!

@Dottiewarden appreciated man! Don't worry, i'm very open minded and think alike, as long as I am not drinking it then it should be fine really, I just tend to avoid the specifically flavored ones like Frog Cellar unfortunately!! And I've heard good things about it too! If anyone could convince me that it's just the Whiskey flavor and non or very low percentage alcohol then that would be fine I guess.

@yaddy306 ripe fruit would be fine and in our religion our prophet was very fond of and promoted vinegar (contains ethyl alcohol as well) so not everything with ethyl alcohol would be prohibited. I was just worried it was in the ingredients for a different reason.
Thank you guys for the answers, saved me my cellar! LOL, as I said I tend to stay away from alcohol flavored tobaccos to be at peace of mind, and I hope not alot of ethyl alcohol remains in the final product of the other tobaccos.

 

[dottiewarden]

I would LOVE to see the captain black ingredient list haha.
In Cuba I've seen the entire production chain for making cigars. Not a single additive or mechanical device ever even touches the tobacco. Even the boxes are hand nailed together and finished with vegetable glue. I would love to see a blend produced with that level of transparency

I have a pound of near organic Mexican Cigar Leaf in my "cellar" and I love the chocolatey taste it gives to a blend. Although it tastes very different in a pipe, as compared with a cigar, it is still a very delectable ingredient.

 

[woodsroad]

Whole leaf tobacco is available from several vendors. Here are the two most prominent:
wholeleaftobacco.com is a good seller: http://wholeleaftobacco.com/main.sc

Owner's name is Don, tell him that Dan Johnson (Woodsroad) sent you. He's got a great stock, and responsive customer service. My only complaint is that he ships leaf in a bag. He told me that he'll start offering box shipment, but If that isn't yet an option, please ask him about it.
The other vendor is "Leaf Only" and I've received some nice cigar leaf from them.http://www.leafonly.com/index.php

 

[Strike Anywhere]

RE: alcohol

It may be somewhat true that it's used as a "homogenizer" but it's real purpose rests with flavorings and colorings. I don't work in the tobacco industry, but I work with companies that manufacture food-grade flavorings, fragrances, and dyes. They are sold to companies at extremely concentrated levels. It would not be economical to ship them in a ready-to-use concentration. So these companies get a very concentrated caramel color and vanilla flavor, etc. and dilute it in some form of alcohol so that it's in a concentration and consistency easy to apply to the tobacco.
Once diluted, they can easily apply the color/flavor evenly across the batch, and the alcohol will evaporate quickly. No need to worry about alcohol consumption for religious reasons, etc. Even in the unlikely scenario some alcohol remained in the tin/pouch, it would evaporate as you're loading your bowl. In the even more unlikely event some remained after you loaded your bowl, the alcohol would vaporize instantly from the heat of your match/lighter.
With all due respect, guys like Russ and Greg have been telling us for years that none of us are smoking "all natural" tobacco. There might be a couple blends out there, but almost every tobacco is going to have at least some kind of casing to help sweeten it, even if just a tad, no matter how much they advertise "all natural tobacco taste". You should really just be reading that as "no cherry/vanilla/chocolate flavor, but we're still adding a pinch of sugar and humectant because it would taste like crap and arrive as dust if we didn't".

 

[kalvort]

@TAB thank you for your detailed answer!! Right I'm completely satisfied now, sometimes I just think way too much...

 

[Strike Anywhere]

@kalvort - glad to help. I wouldn't be concerned about any blends that use brandy/bourbon, etc. as a flavor either. Dip a Qtip in a bottle of alcohol and swipe it across your counter top and watch how long it takes to evaporate. I'm sure you realize this, but it might give you more peace of mind. That being said, always listen to your inner voice. If you have a personal conviction about something, don't ignore it. Happy puffing and health to enjoy...

 

[blendtobac]

Regarding the use of alcohol, it's used as a carrier for the top-dressings. The flavors are diluted in alcohol, which is then applied to the tobacco at the end of processing. The reasons for using alcohol are two-fold. The alcohol reduces the surface tension of the flavoring, which allows it to penetrate the leaf better, and it evaporates off in the 24 to 48 hour resting period, so the tobacco doesn't have to be re-dried with heat. It's actually quite efficient, and virtually none of the alcohol remains in the tobacco by the time it's packaged.

PG can also be used as a carrier, and it adds a bit of sweetness, along with helping to keep the tobacco moist by attracting moisture from the ambient environment, but it doesn't have a significantly negative impact on the burning qualities of the tobacco.
Russ

 

[appointed]

If you're really concerned with what is added in pipe tobacco for health reasons, then you should consume any kind of processed food. Things like hot dogs and fast food have way more and worse stuff in them. I don't mind a little pg if it means my tobacco ain't dust when it arrives.

 

[woodsroad]

Appointed, you are making a wrong assumption. I posted this information not out of alarm or rightous indignation, but because it provides an unusual insight into commercial tobacco production. It also dispels some myths about which brands do or do not contain humectants and preservatives. I'm not making a qualitative judgement.
In addition to the above, as an amateur blender, I've encountered some hurdles, like mold and maintaining moisture content, and these documents show me how these problems are dealt with on a large scale basis. Almost last and most important (and quite interesting) is the data on flavoring. Prune juice? Cocoa? Blending tobacco is even more like cooking than I knew.
And last but not least, who knew that Orlik, which produces a good percentage of the world's pressed tobaccos, relies on Gum Arabic to hold it down on the slice tip, yo'? My guess is that all of the tobacco pressing operations do the same, and I intend to give it a try myself.

 

[dottiewarden]

Thanks for this thread woodsroad. As someone curious about starting a little home blending myself, I found this conversation excedingly informative. I aslo enjoyed the unexpected contributions that arose. Good tip on the tobacco leaf resources as well.
Happy blending!

 

[woodsroad]

Dottiewarden, my pleasure.
Russ, thanks for chiming in and giving the definitive answer on the use of alcohol as a flavoring carrier. I've used alcohol (in the form of Cognac and Rum) in blends that do not have any other added flavors. It extracts juices and oils from the tobacco and redistributes them into the blend. That can be good and bad. The first time I tried it, the blend became too homogenous. What I do now is add the alcohol to a subset of the blend, press it, let it dry, then add in the rest of the tobaccos. That subset of pressed tobacco becomes a base element, to which other tobaccos are added who's favorable character might be obscured by the alcohol and pressing. It's interesting to experiment and see how tobaccos are changed by whatever process is applied to them. Orientals do an interesting transformation when pressed, but I also like to hold them out of a pressing and add them back in later, so that their aromatic character is kept more defined.
I'm kind of running in to a problem now that I had back when I homebrewed: I can only consume so much. So I'm trying to stay focused and not branch off too much. The drill down for me is a Balkanesque blend, the myriad of possibilities in changing just one ingredient at a time.

 

[kalvort]

@blendtobac Thank you for your crystal clear answer Russ! Much appreciated

 

[misterlowercase]

woosroad - you might enjoy digging through the Legacy Library, especially the BAT archives. The whole thing is very deep and somewhat difficult to navigate, but you'll find some very interesting stuff.
Some of the old British casing recipes were so complex and took up to 3 months of fermentation to complete.
They used code words for the specific ingredients, but you can also find a deciphering key on there.
For an appetizer, here's a couple of quick links...
A 1943 experiment in casing Capstan with apple juice,

http://www.legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=het66a99
general notes on manufacture,

http://www.legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=baw76a99&page=3
in 1971, Three Nuns had 22% perique, 1/3 of which was manufactured (fake) perique,

http://www.legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=evl27a99

...you'll see the code words in use for the Casing F 14 recipe.
A few of the various codewords decoded:
SPIDELLA = oil of pimento

MATILE = oil of nutmeg

POLLOST = bergamont oil

KINTOLLY = menthol

ENELBY = tonka tincture

MAXLAW = musk ambrette

AVON = Ceylon cinnamon

ORANG = coriander

CARPAS = liquid extract of deertongue

BUTITE = rum

EDFORM = angelica root

ASRIKER = acetic acid

TRUMSTER = balsam

PITMAN = peanut oil

WARPONTER = oil of dill

WINLOW = tokay wine

WASPEY = apricot extract

YEDEMONT = essence of cedar oil

RULABON = pure dried violet root

SILNEW = ground sage

MURSOL = fine superior saffron

QUANTOSS = sea water

GORLIND = soda ash

RADCOP = soluble essence of raspberry

RIFKIN = raisin concentrate

DUPLEX = virgin otto of rose

AMDINER = pure licorice in blocks

KIBRON = oil of ginger

LOOPIST = methyl alcohol

LAMUS = calamus oil

etc etc etc

 

[masspiper]

Very interesting read. If my SPC Mississippi River had shark shit in it I would still smoke it daily. ::

 

[woodsroad]

@misterlowercase: You have to love the eclectic Brits. The people that also brought us the Burton Union fermentation system, and some of the world's great cheeses. Who knew that they also invented Loopist, something that I use in my secret windshield wiper juice formula?
I have skimmed the Legacy Archives. It is deep and wide, and I need some quiet brain time to delve in....your links are tantalizing.
@Phonomet: Ha! It's not a question of tobacco piling up here, the guys at Lehigh Valley and Morley's pipe Clubs help me with that. It's a matter of how many bowls I can smoke in a given day. The answer is usually "one", so it slows blend development. Oh well, all things in good time.

 

[natibo]

However, it is interesting to note that even Holy Grail blends like Orlik Golden Sliced. contain a few unexpected extras like Propylene Glycol (2.2%); Glycerol (1.6%); Gum Arabic (2%)

I'm glad you brought that up. I think OGS is one of the most flavorless tobaccos even with their listed toppings (I know I'm probably alone in this.)
It just goes to show that most of the "non-aro" blends are really aros in disguise. But, who cares. If it tastes good, smoke it.
I would like to know if all of these blends had these additives well prior to 1968. If so, they had no affect (or a positive one) on the surgeon general's report about the positive effects of pipe smoking.

 

[appointed]

Woodsroad, I am not making a wrong assumption. Maybe I misread them, but it seemed a few others were concerned about such things for health reasons and I was trying to dispel that. Frankly, I find this informing and you are quite right, tobacco blending is a lot like cooking. I have even more appreciation for all that goes into even a simple blend. Gives me something to ponder next time I sit down to enjoy a bowl. Sorry if my post came off the wrong way. I was quite sleep-deprived when writing it.

 

[yaddy306]

Now that I reflect on it, I'm sure that I did taste a little 2,6-dimethylpyrazine in that Borkum Riff Bourbon Whiskey...
But seriously, I counted 138 ingredients in the Swedish Match list. That's not like cooking, as far as I'm concerned.