Why smoke Burley?

[cosmicfolklore]

The coastal Virginia soil was so poor that it produced a varietal of orinoco that was not marketable, until flue curing was developed. Today there are a couple of books of tobacco that say that there is actually no genetic difference between (what we call) Virginias and burleys, except environmental impact on the way the varietals store starches. But, before flue curing, darker stronger burleys were more in demand.

Flue curing put Virginia on the tobacco map, so to speak.

 

[canucklehead]

The coastal Virginia soil was so poor that it produced a varietal of orinoco that was not marketable, until flue curing was developed. Today there are a couple of books of tobacco that say that there is actually no genetic difference between (what we call) Virginias and burleys, except environmental impact on the way the varietals store starches. But, before flue curing, darker stronger burleys were more in demand.

Flue curing put Virginia on the tobacco map, so to speak.

Burley tobacco was accidentally found in 1864 in Ohio on the farm of Captain Frederick Kautz. Previous tobaccos in the US were not burley. Dark air cured (Virginia) maybe, but not burley.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Burley tobacco was accidentally found in 1864 in Ohio on the farm of Captain Frederick Kautz. Previous tobaccos in the US were not burley. Dark air cured (Virginia) maybe, but not burley.

Where are you getting this information? All tobacco is derived from the burley varietal. Orientals, Bright leaf, etc… before there were other varieties there was just burley.

Please give me your source for your information.

 

[canucklehead]

The coastal Virginia soil was so poor

"Tobacco seeds were brought to Virginia around 400 years ago and formed a variety of the Nicotiana Tabacum tobacco plant. Due to the soil the leaves grew thinner and had a lighter taste than the “Spanish tobacco” growing in the Caribbean area. It became an instant hit among pipe smokers and production constantly increased. Today Virginia tobacco is a component of pipe tobacco, cigarettes and Roll Your Own tobacco, which qualifies Virginia tobacco to be the most smoked tobacco in the world."

virginia tobacco | Mac Baren Tobacco Company

mac-baren.com

 

[cosmicfolklore]

"Tobacco seeds were brought to Virginia around 400 years ago and formed a variety of the Nicotiana Tabacum tobacco plant. Due to the soil the leaves grew thinner and had a lighter taste than the “Spanish tobacco” growing in the Caribbean area. It became an instant hit among pipe smokers and production constantly increased. Today Virginia tobacco is a component of pipe tobacco, cigarettes and Roll Your Own tobacco, which qualifies Virginia tobacco to be the most smoked tobacco in the world."

virginia tobacco | Mac Baren Tobacco Company

mac-baren.com

That sounds like a bit of marketing quip. Check out these books…

 

[canucklehead]

That sounds like a bit of marketing quip. Check out these books…
View attachment 176554

I think we are disagreeing over language/semantics more than anything. Previously to flue curing, it is true that the majority of tobacco grown in the US was dark air cured, but it was not called burley, and it's genetic origin was/is from the tobacco farms in the Virginia region. Burley was not used as a tobacco descriptor/type name until the late 1860s.

 

[K.E. Powell]

Not to detract from your excellent treatise on Burley, but could you explain your usage of “sublimate”? I’ve seen JimInks use the word often, but it doesn’t jibe with my understanding of its definition and correct usage. What am I missing here?

I really appreciate you pointing this out. Sublimate, as a term, seems common in critical circles where the subject of taste is concerned. My understanding of how the term came into popular usage was when the scientific version of the word, which describes a solid being turned into a gas, was used outside of science to describe more mundane things. In a more colloquial sense, the "solid" flavors naturally present in a tobacco may be "sublimated" into a vapor-like taste (i.e. the taste is barely noticeable) by other flavors, which is to say, they are obfuscated or entirely buried by something else. The easiest example is when a casing or topping is so strong, you only taste it and not the tobaccos themselves.

That all being said, as you correctly suggest, this term is unwieldy and not very exact. Another poster here suggested the better term to use would be "subordinate." I have my issues with that term as well, but it is definitely much clearer than sublimate. I think I'll be more careful in my use of sublimate from now on. Describing how something tastes can be pretty tough to do, so I appreciate you pointing that out!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I think we are disagreeing over language/semantics more than anything. Previously to flue curing, it is true that the majority of tobacco grown in the US was dark air cured, but it was not called burley, and it's genetic origin was/is from the tobacco farms in the Virginia region. Burley was not used as a tobacco descriptor/type name until the late 1860s.

Until flue curing, yes, it all was just burley. It wasn’t until you had flue curing that you had to use differential terms. In the actual tobacco industry they do not use the term “virginia.” It is flue cured. In my own crops, when I air cure bright leaf, it is exactly like a white burley in taste and presentation. So, it is not correct to say that people enjoyed Virginias until burley was discovered, because burley was not “discovered.” It already was…

 

[canucklehead]

Until flue curing, yes, it all was just burley. It wasn’t until you had flue curing that you had to use differential terms. In the actual tobacco industry they do not use the term “virginia.” It is flue cured. In my own crops, when I air cure bright leaf, it is exactly like a white burley in taste and presentation. So, it is not correct to say that people enjoyed Virginias until burley was discovered, because burley was not “discovered.” It already was…

This is from Wikipedia, yes, I know, not a valid source itself, but it is a good general summary of what I have seen in all other sources as to the history of burley:

"The origin of white burley tobacco was credited to George Webb and Joseph Fore in 1864, who grew it on the farm of Captain Frederick Kautz near Higginsport, Ohio, from seed from Bracken County, Kentucky. He noticed it yielded a different type of light leaf shaded from white to yellow, and cured differently. By 1866, he had harvested 20,000 pounds of burley tobacco and sold it in 1867 at the St. Louis Fair for $58 per hundred pounds. By 1883, Cincinnati had become the principal market for this tobacco, and it was grown throughout central Kentucky and Middle Tennessee. In 1880 Kentucky accounted for 36 percent of the total national tobacco production, and was first in the country, with nearly twice as much tobacco produced as by Virginia, then the second-place state.[1] Later the type became referred to as burley tobacco, which is air-cured."

 

[cosmicfolklore]

This is from Wikipedia, yes, I know, not a valid source itself, but it is a good general summary of what I have seen in all other sources as to the history of burley:

"The origin of white burley tobacco was credited to George Webb and Joseph Fore in 1864, who grew it on the farm of Captain Frederick Kautz near Higginsport, Ohio, from seed from Bracken County, Kentucky. He noticed it yielded a different type of light leaf shaded from white to yellow, and cured differently. By 1866, he had harvested 20,000 pounds of burley tobacco and sold it in 1867 at the St. Louis Fair for $58 per hundred pounds. By 1883, Cincinnati had become the principal market for this tobacco, and it was grown throughout central Kentucky and Middle Tennessee. In 1880 Kentucky accounted for 36 percent of the total national tobacco production, and was first in the country, with nearly twice as much tobacco produced as by Virginia, then the second-place state.[1] Later the type became referred to as burley tobacco, which is air-cured."

It could be valid, but logically, you’d have to ask yourself what was smoked before the 1800’s if Flue curing wasn’t making starchy leaves sweet, and white burley wasn’t a thing? Burley, even if it was just called tobacco.

Dark burley has a cigar like flavor because it is derived from the same seed. Air cured brightleaf (orinoco derivatives) taste just like a white burley… which was not a big hit on a marketing level. Flue curing made it popular (1800s).

So… even if burley was not a term then, America was built on burley. They just called it “tobacco.”

 

[cosmicfolklore]

At this point, readers can make up their own minds, or read those books I posted above. I wouldn’t just rely on marketing copywork posted by a company, because their goal is merely to sell their product. A product I like, but marketing nonetheless.

 

[cigrmaster]

i don't smoke any straight Burley blends. I do how ever have the following Virginia/Kentucky/ Burley blends in my cellar.

1998 -2016 Orlik Dark Strong Kentucky
2007-2012 Esoterica Stonehaven
2012 Mac Baren Old Dark Fired
2018 Savinelli Doblone d'Oro
2007-2012 Peterson Irish Flake
2012 Peterson University Flake
2012-2013 Solano 660 Silver Flake
2013 Mac Baren Modern Virginia Flake
2012 GL Pease Navigator

 

[Scottmi]

“Why smoke burley?”

1. Simple answer…. because it is damn good!

2. More nuanced answer….. a) it really is what I believe MOST pipe smokers inevitably sample first and “cut their teeth on” when start out as most OTCs have at least some burley content. And, as such…. b) if a person ends up sticking with pipe smoking…. it would therefore be likely that they find burley pleasurable.

With that said… it appears you came into pipe smoking by another (non-burley) route. If you do not enjoy burleys…. no problem…. as you know, there are many other tobaccos.

“Anti-burley” folks can still be a part of the pipe smoking club…. albeit perhaps only as a radical fringe group. (sarcasm).

Not so much that i came to smoking pipes in some other way. I expect burley has always been part of my pipe experience. From the unknown aromatic my father enjoyed (and i still have an unlabeled and unsealed jar of now ~50 years old) to the early pouch and flavored tobaccos i tried early on...I am sure burley was a standard component in mosT. When I started to get more selective, i gravitated to either tins or house Virginia blends. Definitely expanding my experience now!

 

[Scottmi]

Burley in the morning with black coffee. I love it. Rustic, strong, woody, nutty, earthy, spicy, slight chocolate, dry, mouth filling and smooth in its own way, extremely satisfying. I’m talking about Cornell and Diehl here, the Clint Eastwood of Burley.

Which C&D blend do you have specifically in mind here? I’m gonna have to try it.

 

[Scottmi]

Great discussion cosmic and canuckle..thank you! Interesting and informative. Among the other things learned, I had no idea tobacco is grown in Ohio. But then, i only know next to nothing about the farming, harvesting, curing, markets, etc for tobacco. I am looking forward to much learning!

 

[Winnipeger]

Straight Burleys I smoke regularly include:

C&D Dark Burley
G&H Kendal Kentucky (Straight Dark Fired)
Tabac Manil Semois (Réserve du Patron)

C&D Burley Blends:

Big n' Burley (has a little subtle oriental and Latakia in it)
Pegasus (has Virginia and Cavendish but is very Burley forward)
Three Friars (Burley, Perique and Virginia — toasty and sweet)
Old Joe Krantz (more heavy on the Perique)
Old Joe Krantz Blue Label (I've heard good things)
Morley's best (Latakia heavy Burley blend)
The Burley flakes.

Of the above mentioned tobaccos, the only ones not available in bulk are Semois and the C&D Burley flakes.

 

[n_irwin]

I smoke burleys when I am working in the shop because I don’t have to think about it too much. Just load up the pipe and go. That’s the why. As for the what, I had WCC Deluxe Crumb Cut for the first time recently, and I can’t get enough of it.

 

[geoffs]

That sounds like a bit of marketing quip. Check out these books…
View attachment 176554

Reading Going Down Tobacco Road right now! Gene Hoots has a substack newsletter I would recommend as well. I have actually spoken with him and he is a great guy with a lot of insider knowledge to share.

Gene Hoots | Substack

Investment Professional at R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company (1965–1986). Author of “Going Down Tobacco Road,” a history of tobacco and R. J. Reynolds and its expansion. Worked in investments for almost sixty years.

substack.com

 

[luigi]

Even Perique is basically Burley.

 

[hawky454]

I am not too big on LJ Peretti’s Burley blends either save their old version of No. 8 Slices, most of their blends just didn’t do much for me, they were all too mild for my tastes. Definitely try Burley blends from different houses before making up your mind.