Why does pipe tobacco gain value with time and not coffee or tea?

[JBrumBravo]

There is popular opinion that pipe tobacco improves in taste and value much like wine. One rationale is that the tobacco is vacuum sealed, which inhibits the tobacco from degrading and allows its flavors to blend more thoroughly. If so, why wouldn't the same be true for the coffee bean or the tea leaf. Also, when the tobacco ages, at what point does it stop developing or begin to degrade.

An individual conducting this test themself is likely to be biased to what they believe true about the tobacco's. If they expect it to be better, most likely it will be. The test would need to be conducted by someone unbiased to the tobacco or the tobacco owner.

My personal opinion is that tobacco would improve with age to an extent. I'm a new "piper", so my palate is not developed enough to pick up the subtleties in tobacco myself, but I would like to know of anyone who has had the opportunity to taste aged tobacco and compare it to the same blend of fresh tobacco. And I would love to know anyone elses opinion on the subject.

 

[jpberg]

Because this has never been discussed ever.

 

[Sig]

Opinions will vary, because people vary and taste is subjective.
Some blends change more than others, some for the better and some for the worse.
I dont "age" tobacco myself. I have many dozens of pounds saved for other reasons. Mainly that availability will dwindle as laws are enacted and tobacco growers disappear.
In my experience Greg Pease probably has written the most about this subject. His observations have been that Virginia based blends usually stop "changing" at about 10 years.
Latakia blends seem to mellow a bit, but keep the campfire goodness.
Im pretty sure almost everyone here has tasted the same blends from many years. A lot of us have been cellaring tobacco for decades.
As for tea and coffee, I have no clue.
I do not partake in either.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Unlike tobacco, once roasted, coffee has a limited shelf life. It's a rare fellow who is willing to buy large bags of unroasted coffee beans for long term storage. Also, this aging process does nothing for the coffee.

Tea, I'm less familiar with, but I think some people do cellar or age loose leaf teas.

 

[OzPiper]

Not all wine improves with age.
Tobacco, as with wine, changes with time. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not.

I have not come across aged coffee.
But I do age my cakes of pu-erh tea.
And yes, their value increases with age.

 

[elvishrunes]

Does it improve, that is subjective and based on the blend, it changes, some do some don’t. I only buy to cellar and hoard for future as I like fresh, not to age, except Virginia blends, still like them fresh too.

And only rare unicorn blends are generally worth more money older, try selling a 10 yr old pouch of Captain black white, and see if you get any more money for it

 

[Waning Embers]

Because some people will pay for it. Buyers created that market.

 

[Waning Embers]

Does it improve, that is subjective and based on the blend, it changes, some do some don’t. I only buy to cellar and hoard for future as I like fresh, not to age, except Virginia blends, still like them fresh too.

And only rare unicorn blends are generally worth more money older, try selling a 10 yr old pouch of Captain black white, and see if you get any more money for it

Captain Black Grape 12 ounce tins were going for $200 not long ago.

 

[JBrumBravo]

Because this has never been discussed ever.

Thanks. I was worried my thread might irritate some just for bringing it up. It was just on my mind when I saw the thread about cellaring.

 

[JBrumBravo]

Opinions will vary, because people vary and taste is subjective.
Some blends change more than others, some for the better and some for the worse.
I dont "age" tobacco myself. I have many dozens of pounds saved for other reasons. Mainly that availability will dwindle as laws are enacted and tobacco growers disappear.
In my experience Greg Pease probably has written the most about this subject. His observations have been that Virginia based blends usually stop "changing" at about 10 years.
Latakia blends seem to mellow a bit, but keep the campfire goodness.
Im pretty sure almost everyone here has tasted the same blends from many years. A lot of us have been cellaring tobacco for decades.
As for tea and coffee, I have no clue.
I do not partake in either.

Thanks. Like you, I can think of other good reasons to stockpile your preferred tobacco products. Can't have too much on hand.

 

[JBrumBravo]

Unlike tobacco, once roasted, coffee has a limited shelf life. It's a rare fellow who is willing to buy large bags of unroasted coffee beans for long term storage. Also, this aging process does nothing for the coffee.

Tea, I'm less familiar with, but I think some people do cellar or age loose leaf teas.

Thanks. It's always good to have your favorites on hand.

 

[JBrumBravo]

Not all wine improves with age.
Tobacco, as with wine, changes with time. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not.

I have not come across aged coffee.
But I do age my cakes of pu-erh tea.
And yes, their value increases with age.

Thanks.

 

[JBrumBravo]

Does it improve, that is subjective and based on the blend, it changes, some do some don’t. I only buy to cellar and hoard for future as I like fresh, not to age, except Virginia blends, still like them fresh too.

And only rare unicorn blends are generally worth more money older, try selling a 10 yr old pouch of Captain black white, and see if you get any more money for it

Another good point is that the same blends may not be available. When Dunhill stopped, fortunately many of their blends continued. If they hadn't, they could be lost.

 

[Briarcutter]

The price of some aged Pu-Erh is off the charts.Pu-Erh is one of the few teas that will get better with time. But I think the reason most coffee and teas don't have a "aged" market is the flavor doesn't hold up to time.

 

[elvishrunes]

Captain Black Grape 12 ounce tins were going for $200 not long ago.

Yeah sure it was YOU selling them trying to hawk your stash for cash, at an inflated price!

I know the really really old OTC sell for big money, or something rare, that is more antique stuff. Try selling a 5-10 yr old pouch of the Captain for more and see who pays you

Even a 5 yr old tin of Peterson Irish Cask is worth nothing more than today. Only certain blends go up…

 

[sablebrush52]

There is popular opinion that pipe tobacco improves in taste and value much like wine. One rationale is that the tobacco is vacuum sealed, which inhibits the tobacco from degrading and allows its flavors to blend more thoroughly. If so, why wouldn't the same be true for the coffee bean or the tea leaf. Also, when the tobacco ages, at what point does it stop developing or begin to degrade.

An individual conducting this test themself is likely to be biased to what they believe true about the tobacco's. If they expect it to be better, most likely it will be. The test would need to be conducted by someone unbiased to the tobacco or the tobacco owner.

My personal opinion is that tobacco would improve with age to an extent. I'm a new "piper", so my palate is not developed enough to pick up the subtleties in tobacco myself, but I would like to know of anyone who has had the opportunity to taste aged tobacco and compare it to the same blend of fresh tobacco. And I would love to know anyone elses opinion on the subject.

You’ve asked an interesting question.
Maybe some tobaccos become more valuable because they have developed a following, are in short supply, or are out of production.
I also suspect that the quantity of coffees and teas are far greater than tobaccos. Some rare teas are expensive. It’s a different market.
And it’s subject to supply and demand.

Tobaccos change as they age, to a varying degree. Whether that change constitutes an improvement is up to the individual smoker to decide.

 

[Waning Embers]

Yeah sure it was YOU selling them trying to hawk your stash for cash, at an inflated price!

I won't sell tobacco for a profit, I find it distasteful. I did give away quite a bit though as it doesn't transition well to RYO.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

Pu'er tea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Similar to aging wine, the tea reaches a peak with age and can degrade in quality afterwards. Due to the many recipes and different processing methods used in the production of different batches of pu'er, the optimal age for each tea will vary. Some may take 10 years while others 20 or 30+ years. It is important to check the status of ageing for your teacakes to know when they have peaked so that proper care can be given to halt the ageing process."

 

[woodsroad]

Another good point is that the same blends may not be available. When Dunhill stopped, fortunately many of their blends continued. If they hadn't, they could be lost.

Please elaborate.
Dunhill has manufactured tobacco for decades.

 

[fireground_piper]

Once roasted, coffee has a very quick rise to peak flavor (opinions vary, mine is 3-5 days after roasting) followed by a slow march of degradation after that peak.

Not only would I not pay for 5 year old coffee, I wouldn't even subject myself to it if it were free and waste my time.