Why does pipe tobacco gain value with time and not coffee or tea?

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sardonicus87

Lifer
Jun 28, 2022
1,825
16,328
38
Lower Alabama
Because different things are different.

Not everything behaves in the same way in the same circumstances.

That's also presuming that tobacco does improve with age and therefore, becomes more valuable.

Having said that, value is meaningless, just tells you what people think something is worth, not how good or desirable it is in and of itself. A one-of-a-kind artwork is "worthless" if nobody wants it... a one-of-10,000 could be high value if 500,000 people want it, even if each of the 10K was made for a nickel a piece.

"Value"—in the sense of monetary value as what I think is implied here—means nothing.

Not to be an asshole, but this seems like "duh" and obvious, like is this really a serious question?
 
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irishearl

Lifer
Aug 2, 2016
2,551
4,891
Kansas

"Similar to aging wine, the tea reaches a peak with age and can degrade in quality afterwards. Due to the many recipes and different processing methods used in the production of different batches of pu'er, the optimal age for each tea will vary. Some may take 10 years while others 20 or 30+ years. It is important to check the status of ageing for your teacakes to know when they have peaked so that proper care can be given to halt the ageing process."
While a lover of loose leaf black teas, never did like pu'er teas much.
 

OzPiper

Lifer
Nov 30, 2020
8,118
46,744
73
Sydney, Australia
While a lover of loose leaf black teas, never did like pu'er teas much.
Pu-erh tea is an excellent aid to digestion, especially when eating rich or oily/fried food

The more commonly found pu-erh tea is the "cooked" (shou cha) form which has a "dusty, earthy" character.
Less common is "raw or uncooked" (sheng cha) which has a more appealing nose and palate with fresher, lighter floral notes. Worth searching out.
 

irishearl

Lifer
Aug 2, 2016
2,551
4,891
Kansas
Pu-erh tea is an excellent aid to digestion, especially when eating rich or oily/fried food

The more commonly found pu-erh tea is the "cooked" (shou cha) form which has a "dusty, earthy" character.
Less common is "raw or uncooked" (sheng cha) which has a more appealing nose and palate with fresher, lighter floral notes. Worth searching out.
Have only had the ones that taste like dirt.:LOL:
 
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Jan 28, 2018
15,757
196,564
68
Sarasota, FL
My primary experience is with Virginia blends. I've yet to encounter a straight virginia blend that doesn't improve with age. Most of what I smoke now is 4 to 7 years old. At the moment, I'm smoking the last bowl from an 8/18 tin of F&T Special Brown Flake that has improved immensely compared to fresh. Smoother, much sweeter and more complex.

VaPers seem to age well also. Recently opened some 8/19 Peter Heinrich Curly Block. This was very good fresh, it's off the charts now. Perique can be a bit overwhelming on the peppery side when fresh but morphs to sweet with fruit tones with some mild spice with 5 or more years of age. At least that's been my experience.

I don't think the value of tobacco increases as much as it should with time. A bowl of tobacco costs around 75 cents. I'd pay $1.50 to $2.00 per bowl all day every day for the 7 year old Special Brown Flake versus a freshly opened tin. However, if 7 year old tins were put up for sale here, you'd be lucky to get a 50% increase over the price a fresh tin sells for today. Only difficult to get out of production blends seem to warrant high prices. I would never choose a bowl of Esoterica over a 5 year old bowl of Virginia Flake. To each their own though.

In my opinion, if you have blends you really like, especially if they're Virginias or VaPers, buy all you can afford and store them. You'll be happy you did 5 years from now.

I would add Cigars are somewhat similar. Good quality stronger cigar blends age beautifully and don't hit their prime until they're 7 to 10 years old. Milder Cigars don't agree as well and in general, tend to get rather bland when they reach 7 years or older. Crap Cigars are still crap no matter how old they are. I think pipe tobacco will age better over extended periods of time because it is sealed. Just my theory.
 
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PLANofMAN

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 13, 2024
190
389
45
Salem, Oregon
Please elaborate.
Dunhill has manufactured tobacco for decades.
Dunhill is no longer in the pipe tobacco business. Pipes and accessories are now sold under "The White Spot" brand, and all Dunhill pipe tobaccos were either discontinued or spun off under Peterson's mark.

Dunhill branded pipe tobacco now only exists in cellars or as dusty tins on shelves in the less popular pipe smoking regions of the world.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
6,958
23,522
Humansville Missouri
There is popular opinion that pipe tobacco improves in taste and value much like wine. One rationale is that the tobacco is vacuum sealed, which inhibits the tobacco from degrading and allows its flavors to blend more thoroughly. If so, why wouldn't the same be true for the coffee bean or the tea leaf. Also, when the tobacco ages, at what point does it stop developing or begin to degrade.

An individual conducting this test themself is likely to be biased to what they believe true about the tobacco's. If they expect it to be better, most likely it will be. The test would need to be conducted by someone unbiased to the tobacco or the tobacco owner.

My personal opinion is that tobacco would improve with age to an extent. I'm a new "piper", so my palate is not developed enough to pick up the subtleties in tobacco myself, but I would like to know of anyone who has had the opportunity to taste aged tobacco and compare it to the same blend of fresh tobacco. And I would love to know anyone elses opinion on the subject.


Here is why—-

IMG_2326.jpegIMG_2325.jpeg

Once upon a time in Weaubleau Missouri, I stopped off at a store on the way to deer camp and overheard a middle aged man say to a young man about my age then—-

Hey, where’s that movie star girlfriend of yours?

And the young man said that no account #%*^} screwed all my friends and when she left she took all my stuff and put a restraining order on me and my landlord evicted me and I lost my job and almost lost my truck. I’m just now getting back on my feet. I’ll have to archery hunt because I can’t own my guns again for six months.

The older man said, I went through all that.

What I did is find me an ugly woman. They are grateful to have a man. She cooks and cleans and has a good job and with the lights out you can’t tell any difference, you know?

You should find yourself an ugly girlfriend!

The young man smiled, and said I don’t think I’ll try that, but I’ll bet you’re right.:)

Men overpay for somethings and pay for them gladly.
 
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Alejo R.

Lifer
Oct 13, 2020
1,347
2,954
50
Buenos Aires, Argentina.
There is popular opinion that pipe tobacco improves in taste and value much like wine. One rationale is that the tobacco is vacuum sealed, which inhibits the tobacco from degrading and allows its flavors to blend more thoroughly. If so, why wouldn't the same be true for the coffee bean or the tea leaf. Also, when the tobacco ages, at what point does it stop developing or begin to degrade.

An individual conducting this test themself is likely to be biased to what they believe true about the tobacco's. If they expect it to be better, most likely it will be. The test would need to be conducted by someone unbiased to the tobacco or the tobacco owner.

My personal opinion is that tobacco would improve with age to an extent. I'm a new "piper", so my palate is not developed enough to pick up the subtleties in tobacco myself, but I would like to know of anyone who has had the opportunity to taste aged tobacco and compare it to the same blend of fresh tobacco. And I would love to know anyone elses opinion on the subject.
It's an experiment that can be separated from a high degree of subjectivity. If you try a tobacco sealed 20 years ago today and the same tobacco manufactured a few months ago, you can't tell if the difference in flavor is due to the distance between the two or because the raw materials are not the same today as yesterday. If you tried a tobacco 20 years ago and did a detailed tasting, and you do the same tasting again today, you won't know if the difference is due to the tobacco itself or your ability to taste it.
 

Mez

Might Stick Around
Dec 20, 2024
95
573
30
Ohio
It's an acquired taste for sure. If you like tea, don't over look Pu-Erh. Use a clay pot and experiment with brewing times and amount used in the pot. The green or "raw" is more finicky than the black or "cooked" Pu-Erh. It's worth the time and experimenting.
I tried to get into Chinese tea like two years ago. Ordered a bunch to try. It was all pretty much awful no matter how hard I tried to like it. On the bright side of things I learned a lot about Chinese tea culture and have a cool looking gaiwan I can use as a decoration and conversation starter.
 
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Briarcutter

Lifer
Aug 17, 2023
2,147
11,924
U.S.A.
I tried to get into Chinese tea like two years ago. Ordered a bunch to try. It was all pretty much awful no matter how hard I tried to like it. On the bright side of things I learned a lot about Chinese tea culture and have a cool looking gaiwan I can use as a decoration and conversation starter.
Well, I've noticed especially with the green or raw Pu-Erh steeped too long it is terrible! Almost like a bad medicine. Then when I steeped the same tea for no more than ten to fifteen seconds it was a wonderful floral taste.
 

Mez

Might Stick Around
Dec 20, 2024
95
573
30
Ohio
Well, I've noticed especially with the green or raw Pu-Erh steeped too long it is terrible! Almost like a bad medicine. Then when I steeped the same tea for no more than ten to fifteen seconds it was a wonderful floral taste.
Whatever I did raw pu'er was super bitter. I was following tea "experts" on YouTube and such and tried to follow proper procedure but maybe I messed something up lol. My favorite was white tea. It was alright.
 
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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
18,408
33,485
47
Central PA a.k.a. State College
Yeah it's only some tobacco in certain situations that improves with age.

If I buy an aged carton of Newports or roll of Copehagen it pisses me off.

In my experience coffee loses it's flavor pretty quickly, can't speak for tea though.
both coffee and tea lose much and gain nothing. At best with tea you can keep it pretty stable but it's not going to improve .
Whatever I did raw pu'er was super bitter. I was following tea "experts" on YouTube and such and tried to follow proper procedure but maybe I messed something up lol. My favorite was white tea. It was alright.
Love Pu'er but the lower grades of the stuff are garbage.
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
18,408
33,485
47
Central PA a.k.a. State College
I tried to get into Chinese tea like two years ago. Ordered a bunch to try. It was all pretty much awful no matter how hard I tried to like it. On the bright side of things I learned a lot about Chinese tea culture and have a cool looking gaiwan I can use as a decoration and conversation starter.
If you like strong latakia blends some of the Chinese Lap Song Such are great. Anything from Yunnan is my cup of tea, especially Golden Yunnan which is very velvety. Oolongs are an extremely diverse style of teas (basically anything that's not green or black but in between, sometimes barely so i.e. practically green or practically black. Have had some of that style that taste lightly floral with a very sweet honey taste or that taste very earthy and minerally. Iron Goddess of Mercy and Gunpowder are amazingly good teas and great starter teas because they're not as temperamental as other teas are to preparations.
Curious which Chinese teas you've tried.
 
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Chieftiabo

Can't Leave
Oct 24, 2024
347
9,013
52
Grayson, Georgia
Not all tobaccos age well and not all teas do not.
Pu-erh Tea is a fermented tea that actually improves with age. If stored properly good pu-erh teas can be aged for years and will develop nuanced flavors like aged tobacco does.
 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
14,384
28,939
SE PA USA
Dunhill is no longer in the pipe tobacco business. Pipes and accessories are now sold under "The White Spot" brand, and all Dunhill pipe tobaccos were either discontinued or spun off under Peterson's mark.

Dunhill branded pipe tobacco now only exists in cellars or as dusty tins on shelves in the less popular pipe smoking regions of the world.
My bad, mean’t to type “hasn’t”.
I need to proof read a little better!
 
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