When Is Kentucky Not In Kentucky?

[cosmicfolklore]

Malawi Dark Fired has a tinny taste to it, IMO, big bold flavors but slightly metallic. To me, it is a big part of what I like about a couple of unscented lakelands.

Whereas DFK has more of a leathery flavor than the Malawi, with no metallic aftertaste.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Could not any leaf (from anywhere) be dark fired?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Fire curing is a process. In some cigarette blends there are a few that use a dark fired Virginia, Lucky Strikes maybe? I can't remember which exactly.

Kentucky Burley just absorbs smokes a lot more than most other varieties. Italian cigars sometimes use an Italian DF leaf. But, there are quite a few varieties of DF tobaccos. I just can't recall them all right now.

 

[sparroa]

When I see seed stock for sale, I know that I can buy and grow Kentucky Burley, and the details for how to fire cure is available in many places online and in print.

I have no idea whether DF Kentucky is actually produced commercially outside of Kentucky, but I do know that the lines between Kentucky and Tennessee farmland is vague. But, are you absolutely sure DF Kentucky is not produced outside of Kentucky or the US?

Virginias are grown worldwide, with very little actually being grown in Virginia, comparatively. Maryland is not just really grown in Maryland. These are where the strains were developed, but not limited to just where they are grown. So, it wouldn't surprise me if DFK were being grown elsewhere, but I have no idea whether it is or not. Just posting out of curiosity.

Since there is no central authority regulating tobacco growers, I think you are absolutely correct in your assumption that Kentucky seed is being grown and fire cured in other nations then subsequently sold as dark-fired Kentucky on the world market in direct competition with the original American product. The United States is growing less and less tobacco these days so I'm sure foreign competition like Malawi/Uganda/Tanzania has been picking up the slack. Probably some Asian or South American countries, too...
I don't have a whole lot of damning evidence at my disposal but here is a pretty convincing snippet from MacBaren's tin description that shows they are sourcing their dark-fired "Kentucky" from more places than the States.
"HH BOLD KENTUCKY
This is the strongest pipe tobacco among the blends in the Mac Baren range and is not recommended for inexperienced pipe smokers. HH Bold Kentucky contains a high amount of the finest Dark Fired Kentucky from the USA and Africa and is combined with bright Virginias to soften the taste just a bit. Still the taste is of earthiness and smoke plays the major part with just a slight nuance of sweetness as the underlying taste. The origin of the taste is in the leaf itself and thanks to the hot press the different tastes merry into one unique taste. Like all the other HH blends this blend has only an absolute minimum of casing and no top flavour at all."
I have also read this blog post from Russ Ouellette who makes a similar point. He doesn't supply any proof since it isn't a scholarly article he's writing but I know the man is a damn good source on tobacco varieties.
"The second point of confusion is the name. Just because a blend contains dark-fired Kentucky doesn’t mean that the leaf actually comes from Kentucky, just that the strain of tobacco used is Kentucky."
An Old Tobacco Finds the Spotlight

http://www.talkingtobacco.com/2014/08/an-old-tobacco-finds-the-spotlight/

 

[woodsroad]

While others may presume to call their product "Kentucky" or "Dark Fired Kentucky" for the sake of selling more of it, and while there are no laws or regulations to keep them from doing so, I'll hold out that Dark Fired Kentucky only comes from Kentucky. I buy mine directly from a farmer in the heart of The Black Patch. It's a unique product, and the chewing tobacco manufacturers that buy the crop before it's even harvested greatly appreciate it's qualities.

 

[sparroa]

That's certainly fair. I can imagine you've sourced some exceptional tobacco and I would probably look in a similar direction if I needed some Kentucky for myself.
As I've said before, it is a similar to a Dominican cigar claiming to be grown from Cuban seed. That does not make it equivalent to a Cuban cigar. One might even say the same about sparkling wines from California made with Champagne grape varieties versus the French originals who are protected by laws and regulations.
My only point is that what is popular known as "dark fired Kentucky" in such popular varieties as Old Dark Fired or the GH tobaccos is not guaranteed to be from Kentucky.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Well... the variety of plant is called “Kentucky burley,” and once it has been dark fired, what else would they call it?

 

[woodsroad]

My only point is that what is popular known as "dark fired Kentucky" in such popular varieties as Old Dark Fired or the GH tobaccos is not guaranteed to be from Kentucky.

That's for sure!
Honestly, in the long-run, I think that the non-Kentucky producers of Dark Fired are selling themselves short by not developing and promoting their own appellation.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

French winemakers had legal grounds for stopping the use of the term “Champagne” being made in other places. Cigar freaks have their own criteria for their ramblings, since they are stuck on one particular flavor, and can’t see past their own... whatevers. But, in tobacco, Virginias are grown worldwide, with very few people favoring the cogarette swag grown in actual Virginia. Some ever prefer Canadian and Ukrainian Virginias. Perique is also going through a marketing campaign to convince us that only Mark Ryan’s place makes true perique. But, Mark dodged questions on where Escudo sources their perique. Isn’t Escudo the standard for VaPers? For those of us who have tried samples of jitterbugdudes perique, semoise, and such can attest that place has very lttle impact on the finished product.

It’s just a varietal name. But, as I said, I am just assuming. Ass and all that. ::

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Actually, you’re right. I’m just going to start calling my Homegrown tobacco formerly known as Virginias, “Cosmic brightleaf.” ::

 

[woodsroad]

There.

“You know why Stonehaven sucks? It isn’t made with Cosmic Brightleaf!”

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yeh, it’s all that imported crap Esoterica uses. ::

 

[woodsroad]

North Korean Virginia does have a unique quality. Must be the dissidents that they use for fertilizer.

 

[sparroa]

People with the right knowledge and equipment could probably make a close approximation of perique (maybe they are without my knowledge) but the demand is probably low enough that it shall remain relatively artisanal...
Regulated tobacco appellations is an interesting concept but I think it will never come to pass since it seems to be considered the worst vice of all in our misguided countries...
By the way, websites I have seen from tobacco producers or brokers based in Africa seem to make no mention of Kentucky but dark-fired or dark fire-cured gets plenty of mentions so the whole Kentucky angle seems to be a marketing ploy made by the blenders and retailers we know/love in America and Europe.

 

[crashthegrey]

Cosmic brightleaf should be on shelves.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Crash, it is a shame that someone just can't start growing and making a boutique blend on their own.

People with the right knowledge and equipment could probably make a close approximation of perique (maybe they are without my knowledge) but the demand is probably low enough that it shall remain relatively artisanal...

Actually, more blends that you may know about are from outside la Poche. Russ did two whole series exploring the subtle differences between periques grown in different regions that were commercially produced in different areas. There is also the perique created by American Spirits that Mark Ryan spits on the ground when mentioned, and some European blending houses are getting their perique from somewhere.
Even Mark Ryan pulls some of the burleys used in his blended perique from as far away as Canada. Actually, I believe it was Canadian Kentucky DF that he said that he used in the blending. But, my memory is definitely not iron clad. I do know that he said that he sourced some of the burleys used in the perique process.
The idea that the "best" perique comes from that strip of cropland across the street from La Poche on the Delta is marketing mythology, and it works. However, if every Perique was actually made in LaPoche, then the world's supply of perique would fit into my garage easily, because I've seen the barrels, and there really aren't that many.

 

[sparroa]

The American Spirit perique used to come from the late Percy Martin's farm in St. James Parish - I've read that from multiple sources but this is a five year old article that briefly discusses his son Ray's continued involvement with American Spirit and references Mark Ryan's purchase of LA Poche.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/us/tobacco-lovers-discover-mystique-of-perique.html
"In 2005, a North Carolina businessman named Mark Ryan bought an old

processing facility in nearby Convent, La., with a lineage going back to

Pierre Chenet, thought to be the first Westerner to produce perique.

Recently, he added to it. Mr. Ryan has more demand than he can fill with

his local farmers, and augments his barrels with tobacco from places

like Kentucky, Virginia and Canada, as his predecessor had done for

years as more and more farmers left the business.
Unlike Champagne or Cuban cigars, perique lacks a legal protection

defining where it must be grown or processed. But for the purist, the

only true perique is grown and processed in St. James."
The last sentence is a little misleading as none of us consumers know where our perique is coming from and I've seen various industry figures say that all perique on the pipe tobacco market is of the blended variety that has been grown elsewhere but processed in Louisiana. (Basically, what Cosmic said)