What Makes a Great Work of Art?

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mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
4,263
12,611
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
@sablebrush52 mentioned Mark Rothko and it made me think of a few things. Seeing a Rothko painting in person is nothing like seeing a reproduction of one in a book (this could be said of a great many works). Books can't capture what the real paintings offer in front of your eyes. It's just a shame that Rothko paintings are so often seen in museums in such dim light to preserve them because he didn't use colorfast pigments. Years ago, a friend of mine (one of my teacher at the School of Visual Arts) was bicycling in New Jersey and he took a spill. He ended up knocking on a door of a house to ask if he could use the telephone. A woman let him in. As my friend was on the phone, he noticed a couple of paintings in the home and thought they might be by Mark Rothko and was perplexed. He asked the woman about them when he completed his call. They were indeed original Mark Rothko paintings to my friend's amazement. She was Rothko's daughter and these were paintings by her dad.
I had the privilege of living a few blocks away from the Rothko Chapel in Houston back in the early 80s. I remember I could go in any time and there would be no-one else there. Maybe that's still true today but I suspect not. The works were monumental in size and covered all walls in one not very large space. He was in a dark monochromatic phase and they all were very sombre. And very moving. I was very grateful that I was allowed to see them.

Barnett Newman's Broken Obelisk is just outside the Chapel and a fitting complement to the Rothko pieces inside.

I thought of the paintings and the obelisk as pieces of America Agnostism, reflections on the death of God and our solitary condition.
 
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brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
10,065
16,151
1) The utter lack of money behind it
2) The overall curmudgeonliness of the artist
3) The social ineptitude of the artist
4) The absence of the artist's social media presence
5) The inexplicable disinterest of the entire public
Damn, I didn't know I was an artist!
 
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telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
Hmmm…. If “no one” gets it? Or just you… or a certain group?

For example, of I don’t understand death metal, does that mean that it’s not a valid musical expression?

BTW… if you had better “communicated” that you meant a homeless man crapping in front of my house, instead of just an artist doing it in a defined space, we may have circumvented some choice words split between us, ha ha.
Unfortunately, "This is Not the Way" to quote the Keepers of the Watch. Internet forums simply aren't equipped for long form writing.

No one is asking, but a better way to reply to a post would be, "by this do you mean?"

This assist with clarification points as well as needless insinuating name calling.

But... what would be the fun in that. ;)
 
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Unfortunately, "This is Not the Way" to quote the Keepers of the Watch. Internet forums simply aren't equipped for long form writing.

No one is asking, but a better way to reply to a post would be, "by this do you mean?"

This assist with clarification points as well as needless insinuating name calling.

But... what would be the fun in that. ;)
Ummm… for clarification… I said that your definition was snobbish. You called “me” an asshole. There is a difference between criticizing someone’s content verses attacking the poster. You’re a language guy. I would think you would understand this. As a debate coach, I deal with this type of distinction every week. High schoolers seem to “get it.”
 
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telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
Let's take the genre of Deathmetal.

Enthusiast of the genre are able to come together in agreement about what pieces are "better" or more representative of the genre than others. This indicates that a certain quality regarding the pieces is perceived or understood.

I think that quality is what we are in disagreement. Does a piece of art have quality? Is quality perceivable?

Phaedrus would argue that it is possible for a piece of art work to lack quality, and that if it does, then the world is less because of it.

In the genre of Deathmetal, certain artistic pieces make the genre more beautiful than others, because if those pieces did not exist, then Deathmetal would be lesser for it.

This is the quality of which we speak. One may not appreciate Deathmetal, but the fact that aficionados of the genre can differentiate between those pieces that improve the genre versus those that do not suggest and Deathmetal has a value and that this value can be measured in terms of quality because aficionados can understand and communicate to each other the various values.

Phaedrus was a mess. I think I'll take a motorcycle ride now. Adios.
 
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telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
Ummm… for clarification… I said that your definition was snobbish. You called “me” an asshole. There is a difference between criticizing someone’s content verses attacking the poster. You’re a language guy. I would think you would understand this. As a debate coach, I deal with this type of distinction every week. High schoolers seem to “get it.”
Are you saying you aren't?
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,046
50,516
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
It's easy to confuse the "art market" with "Art," but these are two separate institutions. The cost of painting in "the market" has little to do with the actual artistic value of the art.
The art market is influenced by a number of factors that only peripherally touch on the quality of the art. It's become another tax dodge for corporations and wealthy "benefactors" to museums. Big money has woven its corrupting influence throughout the art market. Desecrating Cambodian temples, hacking off figurines at the calf because they have such a "love" for this art. Gangs murdering one another while plundering a site. Blow enough Gallery owners and you can become a success. Attributions withheld because of fears for personal reputation, or concerns over a potential leap in value due to an attribution outweighing academic considerations, an international black market in stolen art. It's not the entirety of the market by any means, but it's a significant portion of it.
 
The art market is influenced by a number of factors that only peripherally touch on the quality of the art. It's become another tax dodge for corporations and wealthy "benefactors" to museums. Big money has woven its corrupting influence throughout the art market. Desecrating Cambodian temples, hacking off figurines at the calf because they have such a "love" for this art. Gangs murdering one another while plundering a site. Blow enough Gallery owners and you can become a success. Attributions withheld because of fears for personal reputation, or concerns over a potential leap in value due to an attribution outweighing academic considerations, an international black market in stolen art. It's not the entirety of the market by any means, but it's a significant portion of it.
You may be right about an aspect of the market. But, having sat for a few years on the board of a fairly sized museum, many of the people who invest A large portion of their savings into art are doing this for truly good intentions for the general public. I might suggest that it not be painted with such a wide brush… So to speak.
 
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,046
50,516
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
You may be right about an aspect of the market. But, having sat for a few years on the board of a fairly sized museum, many of the people who invest A large portion of their savings into art are doing this for truly good intentions for the general public. I might suggest that it not be painted with such a wide brush… So to speak.
I did say it wasn't the whole of the market, just a significant part of it. Sure hope that Da Vinci, floating around on a private yacht, is doing well with the sea air...

I've known a number of collectors who were absolutely sincere in their love for the arts and in their support of it. But when money supplants love, things really go to hell.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
What have I ever said that was cruel enough to make me an asshole? Just because we disagree doesn’t mean that I am being cruel. I was really trying to be open and amiable… that did not deserve a personal attack.
Personal attack? You walk a fine line with your Insults and unsolicited observations about all types of people. Usually under the auspices of humor. But you're a big boy. Put on your big boy pants and buck up. And get over it. If you don't like snippy responses don't get uppity and snippy with others. And no, your initial reply didn't come across as open or amiable. I enjoy reading your posts, your are very knowledgeable and a gift to the pipe smoking community. But if you can't see that you come across like an ass from time to time in your responses to others, then so be it. We all can come across that way. Regardless, I stand by my observation and we will simply disagree. For the record, I'll rephrase... you're not an ass. You come across AS an ass. Better, 😀.


The problem is I can never tell when you're deadpan or serious. I haven't been serious