What is Your Opinion on the Taste of SG's Products Post Merger?

[condorlover1]

I have not really noticed any major changes and I have been smoking the stuff for about 35 odd years. Recently I have noticed that Brown No:4 has exhibited signs of being totally fire proof and I cut my twists very fine before rubbing them out. Even with an extended dry time the stuff needs many matches to get it going. None of the other S&G plugs or twists seemed be afflicted with this issue. Maybe the last couple of tins have been effected by the humidity of Florida summer.

 

[Leo]

I can assure you that very little has changed in the production of SG tobaccos since the merger. Indeed we took on several of the SG staff and they just moved to our factory, along with some of the machinery and carried on making the tobacco the same. There is a difference in how SG and GH tobaccos are made as someone has already pointed out in terms of when flavouring is added. But in effect SG just moved into space in the GH factory.

No-one from Gawith's has come in and tweaked anything. We are an incredibly small company. We currently have just over 30 employees including all management, sales staff, office staff and production and packing staff. Much of the production is done by hand. So of course there will be some variations between batches. It is not mass produced product. Also batches vary depending on leaf being used.

There were no falling out between family members. Indeed there is just me and my brother and my Mum is the major shareholder. There were no 'Gawith's within Samuel Gawith for a long time prior to the merger.

Yes Chris has been looking at better quality control, better packaging and stuff, but this is not so much within the actual tobacco production process.

Thank you for your answers. I was surprised and moved.
and as a Pipe Smoker, Thank you always for your commitment to us.

I must say that I have no intention of criticizing your company.
I'm sorry if I offended you.
I just talked about Tobaccos as a pipe smoker.

Please continue to produce good products.

 

[Ahi Ka]

@gawithhoggarth ENNERDALE PLUG

 

[Smithy]

Some people just have to have something to bitch about…

I've only been smoking Sam Gawith's FVF and BBF for 3 years so can't really compare it to older production dates. But seasoned pipers noticing changes in their long-smoked tobaccos does hold some weight. This very forum is full of the same opinions regarding other manufacturers: regardless of the claims of tobacco producers, some blends have noticeably changed and not for the better.
It's great that Sam Gawith chimed in to be part of the discussion. Welcome, and I love your Virginias! But hopefully it won't sway people from continuing to have an honest, respectful discussion about perceived changes they see in their tobacco.

 

[fireground_piper]

But I think the overall consensus, regardless of manufacture, is that blends will change over the years through no process change of the manufacturer. Just different crop years, or the same crop years sitting in warehouse for a while, etc. that ultimately slowly changes blends over a period of time.

 

[gawithhoggarth]

So today I spoke to my brother (CEO/director) about the issue raised. It seems that in the past there were complaints about SG products being too wet, not staying a light or even being able to be lit and there were many tins being returned or complained about as mouldy. In the old factory basically there was no 'steaming' and the moisture was put on more or less using a watering can. This meant that much of it was far too damp and went mouldy when packed. When moved to the GH factory, to address this problem and loss in retail/production the tobacco is now steamed, similar to GH is, as the machinery is available for SG now and so this is why it is not as wet (this is a good thing for quality). The wetter the tobacco, the darker it is, hence why it is now lighter (and drier). This is in response to customer and retailer's feedback.

 

[gawithhoggarth]

Really nice to see you on the board and bothering to answer questions etc..... Much appreciated...
.... now when are you going to get some tours of the factory organised.. ?????

Bit difficult to do tours due to health and safety, security etc but I do intend to try and get some videos done of production and if there is something particular you want to see, I'll try and sort that.

 

[craig61a]

So today I spoke to my brother (CEO/director) about the issue raised. It seems that in the past there were complaints about SG products being too wet, not staying a light or even being able to be lit and there were many tins being returned or complained about as mouldy. In the old factory basically there was no 'steaming' and the moisture was put on more or less using a watering can. This meant that much of it was far too damp and went mouldy when packed. When moved to the GH factory, to address this problem and loss in retail/production the tobacco is now steamed, similar to GH is, as the machinery is available for SG now and so this is why it is not as wet (this is a good thing for quality). The wetter the tobacco, the darker it is, hence why it is now lighter (and drier). This is in response to customer and retailer's feedback.

I recall seeing tobacco being "watered" in an old video filmed at the GH&Co factory, probably back in the early 1970's, produced by Anglia Television.

Problem is the amount of watering can vary depending on who's doing the watering. And I didn't see any humidity monitoring equipment. I've seen other manufacturers recently using a spray bottle and checking humidity using a probe. In any case, changing the process in order to get more uniform results is a good thing.

I would also think that steaming in order to impart moisture is different than just applying water, so there might be a subtle difference in flavor because of that.

I have no experience in processing tobacco. Just what I've read on the interwebs. And some of the articles are written by people who have experience, some are written by people who have no experience, other than what they've read on the interwebs. A lot of articles seem to be based on speculation, conjecture, and are for the most part convoluted.

Over the years I've enjoyed GH&Co & SG products. Of late, (when they are available) I haven't had any issues with any products.

There are tobaccos that I have that have various amounts of age on them. In some cases what I seemed to remember about a particular tobacco doesn't come across a week or month later, even though it's from the same jar. And in some pipes it just seem quite the same. The weather, body chemistry on that day, who knows...

Guess I'm just happy to live at a time and place where there's so much variety available.

 

[heyeveryone]

So the answer is just less moisture, interesting. I'm tempted to wet a post merge jar and see if it will age like the pre merge.

But if more moisture makes it age faster/differently, it should mean that the new stuff will eventually get to the same point, but it will just take longer? I think.

 

[craig61a]

So the answer is just less moisture, interesting. I'm tempted to wet a post merge jar and see if it will age like the pre merge.

But if more moisture makes it age faster/differently, it should mean that the new stuff will eventually get to the same point, but it will just take longer? I think.

The ideal moisture of finished tobacco is 16-19%, and in open air, a RH of 60-70% is required to keep it from losing moisture. Adding any more moisture than that will probably promote mold growth, or other issues.

 

[heyeveryone]

The ideal moisture of finished tobacco is 16-19%, and in open air, a RH of 60-70% is required to keep it from losing moisture. Adding any more moisture than that will probably promote mold growth, or other issues.

I wonder how many of the mold complaints where just plume. Post merge tins seems to lack it, none of my post merge jars have it. Where as all of the pre merge have it.

 

[gawithhoggarth]

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by 'plume'?

 

[sablebrush52]

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by 'plume'?

The mineral accretions that form on flakes over time. Some call them sugar crystals. Many don't know how to tell the difference between "plume" and mold.

 

[craig61a]

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by 'plume'?

Plume or Bloom refers to tobacco that has been sitting for a period of time and develops a whitish cast over the surface. Caused by the oils in the tobacco exuding and drying on the surface.

 

[craig61a]

I wonder how many of the mold complaints where just plume. Post merge tins seems to lack it, none of my post merge jars have it. Where as all of the pre merge have it.

Really? I have post merger tobacco that has plume on it…

 

[fireground_piper]

Isn't plume the old cigar shop term used to convince customers their cigars weren't moldy from sitting in not well maintained humidors? Not to be confused with the sugar crystal remnants, though often tried to be pushed off as.

 

[craig61a]

But if more moisture makes it age faster/differently, it should mean that the new stuff will eventually get to the same point, but it will just take longer? I think.

I fail to follow your reasoning here.

A percentage of moisture does aid in aging tobacco. However more moisture doesn’t equal quicker aging.

Agricultural products require drying to certain percentage of moisture in order to be stored. Corn, rice, beans etc. Anything above the nominal amount invites rot and mold.

 

[craig61a]

Isn't plume the old cigar shop term used to convince customers their cigars weren't moldy from sitting in not well maintained humidors? Not to be confused with the sugar crystal remnants, though often tried to be pushed off as.

Term is used in the cigar world, and no it’s not a tricky way to describe mold. Plume and mold are two different things. And plume is not sugar crystal remnants.

 

[fireground_piper]

If Plume is not a mold cover up, and it's not sugar, then it's a third option? I've never seen it presented as something other than a mold cover up or sugar crystals.

 

[sablebrush52]

Isn't plume the old cigar shop term used to convince customers their cigars weren't moldy from sitting in not well maintained humidors? Not to be confused with the sugar crystal remnants, though often tried to be pushed off as.

Yep, though the term has been used with the whitish deposits that for on flakes that are also referred to as sugar crystals.