Well I'm Fat Pt2

[warren]

In reality, the truly tough people climb the ladder of life with their own strength, not by pulling others down to get to the next rung. Of course some of you just stay at the bottom too.

I presume you enjoy the ambience there on the bottom rung.

 

[The Benedictine]

Got my results from my sleep apnea test on my app and I apparently stopped breathing 33 or more times per hour.

 

[telescopes]

I think that most people who have dealt with drug addicted friends and family receive no satisfaction from telling them that they have to change their life. Comparing obesity with a drug addiction, although they are similar in many ways and may have the same root cause, is not helpful for anyone.


Again, the conflation of drug abuse and obesity isn't going to contribute to a favorable outcome for anyone.


While apnea is often caused or aggravated by obesity, it is not the sole cause. About 30% of obstructive sleep apnea patients have physiological problems that will not be cured by losing weight. As long as I can remember, I'd wake up gasping for air. And I wasn't overweight until I was in my mid 40's.


Just before COVID hit, I went out to breakfast with a friend, as I had done quite often. He's a big guy. 6'5, muscular, big bone structure. It can hide a lot of excess weight. He usually ordered the special that had one of everything on the menu. That day, he was just having coffee. Said he was retiring in 3 months and he wanted to get back to his weight when he started the job, 20 years earlier, so he was doing a keto-style diet and cutting out one meal. He had already lost ten pounds since the last time I saw him, and had 40 more to go. He was happy and looked great. That was all the motivation I needed to try losing the weight that I had gained over the previous twenty years. Despite having tried and failed so many times before, that was the only thing I needed to see. Now, OK, I eventually gained some of it back (he didn't), but this thread has motivated me to do it again. I'll report back. And maybe it will get me off the meff, too.

Sugar and many of the chemicals in our foods for some have the same driving addiction as drugs. It's a reality whether someone wants to acknowledge it or not. Often times for those individuals suffering from the addiction driven behaviors propagated by the foods and chemicals that are reacting with their bodies, there is no difference. Which is my point. But... if anyone wants to think that I am wrong, so be it. I personally don't care because I am right. Period.

 

[jpberg]

If you find this forum offensive, you should cancel your internet service. Why did it matter if you find a few people you disagree with our even find offensive? Block them. Ignore them. If you otherwise enjoy the site, I don't understand. Your choice though.

My takeaway thus far, other than the fact that everyone who posted wants @The Benedictine to be successful, healthy, and happy, is that we really should appreciate the diversity of this joint.

 

[telescopes]

Back in the 90s, a doctor gave me some medication - you can't get it in the USA. He told me this would eliminate my desire to over eat. In 2 months I lost 45 pounds. I could walk by donut shops, pastries, any number of things. I had no desire to try them or indulge in them. For the first time in my life, I understood what it was like to suddenly have "will" power. I could say no to it all. It was then that that I started to pay attention to research that conflated food cravings and addiction - over eating - with the same forces that drive drug addiction.

I am not alone in this thinking. More and more research is demonstrating the addictive powers of additives and chemicals in our foods. More importantly, some of these chemicals behave and act just like many of the drugs that addict so many people.

So for those who give cheap advice about "just say no to food and exercise" feel free to do so. Those words are flat and won't help those for whom their bodies are being recoded and manipulated by the additives and chemicals they are ingesting. Of course it comes down to healthy eating and exercise, but getting there isn't a one size fits all road.

 

[ThermionicScott]

The problem with using medications to lose weight is that eventually you have to stop taking them.

With some medications, sure. GLP-1 agonists appear to be safe for long-term use.

Here's to loose skin, @The Benedictine !

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Got my results from my sleep apnea test on my app and I apparently stopped breathing 33 or more times per hour.

Regardless of what's been written, I sincerely wish you the best.

 

[The Benedictine]

With some medications, sure. GLP-1 agonists appear to be safe for long-term use.

Here's to loose skin, @The Benedictine !

If I cannot get the skin to retract then I shall donate the excess to burn victims.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

I think they should just outlaw sugar and butter... maybe bread too.

Some people apparently act like junkies around the stuff. Haha

It's an absolute damn shame to blame the junk food makers for adding sugar to make the food taste good.

God Almighty...

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Back in the 90s, a doctor gave me some medication - you can't get it in the USA. He told me this would eliminate my desire to over eat. In 2 months I lost 45 pounds. I could walk by donut shops, pastries, any number of things. I had no desire to try them or indulge in them. For the first time in my life, I understood what it was like to suddenly have "will" power. I could say no to it all. It was then that that I started to pay attention to research that conflated food cravings and addiction - over eating - with the same forces that drive drug addiction.

I am not alone in this thinking. More and more research is demonstrating the addictive powers of additives and chemicals in our foods. More importantly, some of these chemicals behave and act just like many of the drugs that addict so many people.

So for those who give cheap advice about "just say no to food and exercise" feel free to do so. Those words are flat and won't help those for whom their bodies are being recoded and manipulated by the additives and chemicals they are ingesting. Of course it comes down to healthy eating and exercise, but getting there isn't a one size fits all road.

I don't think people are debating what you're saying. Until recently, sugar had my number. My car had an autopilot mode to find bakeries. I couldn't push my grocery cart past the pastries, cakes and pies. I felt it was a God given right, even a necessity, to have dessert after dinner. I made a decision this had to change if I were to meet my health and weight goals.

I've gone from 206 to 192 in 6 weeks primarily by changing my eating habits. Nearly eliminating sugar has not been easy. However, regardless of the addiction, it is still a conscious decision. And it's been a good one. I feel better, have more energy, sleep better and my cardio has improved substantially.

 

[The Benedictine]

I think they should just outlaw sugar and butter... maybe bread too.

Some people apparently act like junkies around the stuff. Haha

I'm French, do not touch my bread or wine.

 

[craiginthecorn]

Regarding the potential of certain drugs to affect weight, in my work as a CASA (court-appointed special advocate), I worked with a deaf, intellectually-disabled young man who could not be placed in a foster home and lived in a facility. His meals were all provided by this facility and his school. He had no access to treats between meals and due to having pre-diabetes, his caregivers were diligent about monitoring his access to carbohydrates.

When I first met him, although only 5’8”, he weighed north of 250 pounds and was taking Haldol, an anti-psychotic. After I arranged for a re-evaluation of all of his medications by a new psychiatrist, he was removed from Haldol.

Immediately after stopping Haldol, the pounds began to melt away. My next struggle was to get DCFS to buy him new pants, as it wasn’t long before his old pants were literally falling off of him. The diet available to him did not change. Clearly, Haldol led to his weight gain. As for the mechanism by which this happens, there are a variety of factors.

Best of luck achieving the weight loss you seek and maintaining a healthy weight for life.

 

[Sig]

That's exactly what I'm referring to as homespun wisdom. You can couch it in those scientific terms if you like, but basically what you're saying it 'eat less, move more'. Ask a 1,000 people how to lose weight, and 999 of them will offer that advice. Restating such tiresome cliches here seems unlikely to help. I mean, do you really, honestly believe that such advice will be new to the OP?

At least only 1 person has suggested chopping off a limb....so far.
There are 101 ways to lose weight.
But in the end, it is just that easy....use more calories than you take in. You can eat tons of calories and work our 6 hours a day, or you can eat a grape and a cracker everyday and sit on the couch.
I believe the point some are making is there are better, and healthier ways to lose weight than drugs. And when you're told "I did all that and it didn't work", you gotta kind of say, "really?"
I get it, I gained 110 pounds in a bit over a year. But once I realized I didn't have to choose health over good food, I lost that 110 pounds quicker than I gained it. Im an eater, I love food. I love to cook it, smell it, and eat it. And again, I was on medicine that "causes" weight gain and stores fat in odd places. But, watch the diet, with GOOD food, and walking the dog everyday isn't exactly rocket science.

 

[Sig]

Regarding the potential of certain drugs to affect weight, in my work as a CASA (court-appointed special advocate), I worked with a deaf, intellectually-disabled young man who could not be placed in a foster home and lived in a facility. His meals were all provided by this facility and his school. He had no access to treats between meals and due to having pre-diabetes, his caregivers were diligent about monitoring his access to carbohydrates.

When I first met him, although only 5’8”, he weighed north of 250 pounds and was taking Haldol, an anti-psychotic. After I arranged for a re-evaluation of all of his medications by a new psychiatrist, he was removed from Haldol.

Immediately after stopping Haldol, the pounds began to melt away. My next struggle was to get DCFS to buy him new pants, as it wasn’t long before his old pants were literally falling off of him. The diet available to him did not change. Clearly, Haldol led to his weight gain. As for the mechanism by which this happens, there are a variety of factors.

Best of luck achieving the weight loss you seek and maintaining a healthy weight for life.

Your own article shows what ive been saying. If you take 2 people of the same weight and put 1 on that drug and the other not on the drug, and feed them the same diet, the drugged one will not gain more weight. The weight may be distributed differently, like moon face, or fat stored in the neck and upper chest.
Drugs "cause" weight gain because they can make you more hungry, so, you eat more. That's how I gained a lot of weight years ago.
As far as the highly controlled diet, there are ways around that. Not knowing the whole story I cannot comment, but drugs will not defy science. From the article you posted.

"Antipsychotic drugs can make you hungrier, so you might eat more. That’s because they change the way your brain and hormones work together to control your appetite. You might crave sweets or fatty foods. They can also raise the amount of sugar and fat in your blood."

 

[andrew]

I'll be prescribed zepbound. With my activity level and the medicine I should be able to burn just the fat and not the muscle.

That's great, alot of bodybuilders are using it, terzepide is much better than semaglutide. I think this will be the magic bullet for you.

 

[andrew]

The problem with using medications to lose weight is that eventually you have to stop taking them. The side effects are real and can be life-threatening for some patients. The only sustainable way to maintain a healthy weight is through diet and exercise. Or tapeworms.

GLP's are a relatively new phenomena and they've proven to be very effective. The flipside is being obese and the complications from that. Sleep apnea itself is dangerous untreated.

 

[andrew]

Got my results from my sleep apnea test on my app and I apparently stopped breathing 33 or more times per hour.

Mine was once in maybe 4 hours. I have severe sleep apnea as my oxygen levels drop below 80% for hours. I was telling a nurse at work that and they said they'd be calling a code if that happened in the hospital. The big difference for me is I don't dream now with the cpap, which is good as I had crazy dreams, which I now know was linked to oxygen deprivation. I'd had them since being a teenager. Most people think oh cool you're lucid dreaming, but 9 times out of 10 it's being attacked or something bad

 

[WerewolfOfLondon]

At least only 1 person has suggested chopping off a limb....so far.
There are 101 ways to lose weight.
But in the end, it is just that easy....use more calories than you take in. You can eat tons of calories and work our 6 hours a day, or you can eat a grape and a cracker everyday and sit on the couch.
I believe the point some are making is there are better, and healthier ways to lose weight than drugs. And when you're told "I did all that and it didn't work", you gotta kind of say, "really?"
I get it, I gained 110 pounds in a bit over a year. But once I realized I didn't have to choose health over good food, I lost that 110 pounds quicker than I gained it. Im an eater, I love food. I love to cook it, smell it, and eat it. And again, I was on medicine that "causes" weight gain and stores fat in odd places. But, watch the diet, with GOOD food, and walking the dog everyday isn't exactly rocket science.

You may well doubt someone when they tell you they've done everything as far as diet and excercise is concerned. And I do get that, it's clearly obvious that some people who are overweight are that way because of laziness. But the crucial point here, is that the OP's doctor is not of that opinion, otherwise he/she wouldn't have prescribed the weight loss medicine. When you cast doubt in this way, you're contradicting the professional opinion of someone who knows the full medical history of the person in question and is personally acquainted with them. I do understand your points, they're well made and articulated, but I also hope you appreciate why some of us are uncomfortable with some of the advice that has been offered here, for the reasons stated.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

You may well doubt someone when they tell you they've done everything as far as diet and excercise is concerned. And I do get that, it's clearly obvious that some people who are overweight are that way because of laziness. But the crucial point here, is that the OP's doctor is not of that opinion, otherwise he/she wouldn't have prescribed the weight loss medicine. When you cast doubt in this way, you're contradicting the professional opinion of someone who knows the full medical history of the person in question and is personally acquainted with them. I do understand your points, they're well made and articulated, but I also hope you appreciate why some of us are uncomfortable with some of the advice that has been offered here, for the reasons stated.

You're assuming all Doctors are competent and act in the best interest of their patient. Or even consider the doctor believes there's a better natural approach but knows the patient is unwilling or incapable of executing that approach. Just because a doctor prescribes something doesn't mean that is the optimal cure. Some Doctors act due to financial incentives or perks.

 

[WerewolfOfLondon]

You're assuming all Doctors are competent and act in the best interest of their patient. Or even consider the doctor believes there's a better natural approach but knows the patient is unwilling or incapable of executing that approach. Just because a doctor prescribes something doesn't mean that is the optimal cure. Some Doctors act due to financial incentives or perks.

You could have a point there. Doctors this side of the pond don't really have the opportunity to act in such nakedly self interested ways, given our system is run by the government. I can see that in a privatised system this could be a problem. Indeed it is well documented that this problem was rife before our healthcare was nationalised. I'd stll like to believe that the hippocratic oath means something, but perhaps not.