Watch Out or Watch on? Pt 2.

[Briar Lee]

The mailman came with two watch presents for me today.

$20 from India. A fully restored (unless it’s NOS) Favre Leuba 17 jewel hand wind Swiss Made watch with new 18mm leather band.



$30 from China. A super clone of a Unitas 6486 watch movement with long micro regulator and decorated. A PAM case is still on the way.

 

[Briar Lee]

The more I look at my $20 Farvre Leuba the more I’m convinced it’s new old stock.

On the back was a line where a plastic tag was to protect the stainless case back.

And a little polishing with cotton wadding jewelry polish removed the line and made the letters and engraved texture pop.



After independence from the British in 1948 all the London and Geneva dealers pulled out of the Indian market except Farve Leuba. This made F-L sort of the Indian Rolex, for a long period.

Then Citizen helped build a watch factory in India where they used modern Japanese 21 jewel automatic movements and by the seventies it was hard to sell a 17 jewel hand winder new in India.

And in India the most faked watches were a Farve Leuba and a Citizen Eagle 7, so I might have a counterfeit NOS watch.

It comes with a full return guarantee until June 12, so I’m not risking much.

 

[Grangerous]

Update: I set and fully wound this watch on Thursday afternoon at the Rolex AD and it has not been off of my wrist since. -TUDOR RANGER 39mm.

Today is Monday so it’s been 4 days on the wrist. It’s gaining < 1 second per day as it is presently plus 3 seconds on day four.

I just finished enjoying the Eclipse. There’s 5 minutes of my life I’ll never get back!

Very happy with this purchase. It’s simplicity is charming. A simple, clean, rugged, brushed field watch.

With a 70 hour power reserve and the wrist time it may take from my other watches - it may very well prove to be that that initial “in-store” winding will be it’s only winding for years!

On edit: For those interested. My wrist size is 19cm or 7.5”

I find that watch cases in the 39mm to 40mm are my preference, even though I can easily accommodate larger. I just never liked the “bigger is better” watch craze.

Glad that’s over now.

 

[woodsroad]

I love watches, and clocks, but find a wrist watch to be annoying, both in feel and in constantly being reminded what time it is. I wore an inexpensive watch for many years until my first cell phone in 1991. Haven't worn one since, but damn, looking at these posts...it's tempting.

 

[huntertrw]

Being a watch-buff myself, I thought that I was familiar with all of the obscure Swiss marques. Not so, as this is a new (and interesting) one to me.

Congratulations on your purchase!

 

[Briar Lee]

The sun came up from behind the moon, to reveal a beautiful pattern under the domed crystal of my brand new old Farve Leauba, or excellent fake, if it is fake.



The watch doesn’t hack, but according to where the second hand was when I set it, in five hours it’s still exact to the second.

Inside is a little 18,000 beats per hour movement running like a champ to listen to it tick, and I can count the second hand jerk 1-2-3-4-5 as it sweeps between the seconds.

It could be a Franken Farve Leauba, an old movement cleaned and oiled inside a brand new “Bombay Special” case. There’s no serial numbers.

But look how crisp and new the lettering is, after polishing off the tarnish and gum from a plastic sticker.



I read on the Indian sellers reviews how the buyers of a few modern Casio, Diesel, and Fossil watches are mad at the guy who makes a living selling $20-40 watches he has to buy somewhere and flip.



I couldn’t buy the brand new extra long 18mm lined, padded, and sewn leather band with a stainless buckle and ship it to India for twenty bucks.

And every part in my Farve Leuba was in that hand made 1,440 hour watch in Texas, and all work exactly the same way.

If the watch had an oyster style screw back I’d remove it and gander at the movement.

But it looks like this was a front loader with an acrylic crystal, I can’t be sure.

Best to leave it the way the seller shipped it.

Anybody know where to buy a minute and second hand for a sixties Longines Ultra Chron?.

 

[ssjones]

Anybody know where to buy a minute and second hand for a sixties Longines Ultra Chron?.

View attachment 301870
View attachment 301871View attachment 301872View attachment 301873

Maryland Watchworks could restore that for you.

 

[Briar Lee]

Update: I set and fully wound this watch on Thursday afternoon at the Rolex AD and it has not been off of my wrist since. -TUDOR RANGER 39mm.
View attachment 301840
Today is Monday so it’s been 4 days on the wrist. It’s gaining < 1 second per day as it is presently plus 3 seconds on day four.
View attachment 301841
I just finished enjoying the Eclipse. There’s 5 minutes of my life I’ll never get back!

Very happy with this purchase. It’s simplicity is charming. A simple, clean, rugged, brushed field watch.

With a 70 hour power reserve and the wrist time it may take from my other watches - it may very well prove to be that that initial “in-store” winding will be it’s only winding for years!

On edit: For those interested. My wrist size is 19cm or 7.5”

I find that watch cases in the 39mm to 40mm are my preference, even though I can easily accommodate larger. I just never liked the “bigger is better” watch craze.

Glad that’s over now.

About watch sizes:

When George Washington authorized Governor Morris to buy him a watch in Paris for 25 Guineas (27 pounds) (about $4,500 in current dollars) Morris rejected two watchmakers and stumbled onto Jean-Antoine Lepine.

Jean-Antoine Lépine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

By 1789 Lepine and his student Breguet were making astonishingly modern pocket watches. My $30 ST 36 movement is 31.3mm wide and is a Lapine movement, the same as my Chrysler 300 is an Otto cycle 8 cylinder gasoline engine. They’ve only been refined, not radically changed in all that time.



It’s possible to put a 6486 size pocket watch movement in a 40mm case but most are 42mm or larger.

The smaller a watch caliber is made the more difficult it is, and the less accurate it will be, all other things equal.

Super accurate hand wind pocket watch movements more or less stopped development with the 6498. Even today it’s about the state of the art for a tool watch pocket watch or large pilot’s watch.

But we all know what happened to the pocket watch. It’s not dead, but nearly so.

During the thirties the fashion in men’s wrist watches was tiny, smaller than current women’s watches.

1940 Hamilton Brock with 982M





What started wristwatches getting larger was likely the untold millions of 32mm A-11 watches made for the United States and allied armies in WW2.

Military Watches of the World: A-11, the Watch That Won the War - Worn & Wound

England, 1945. A nighttime briefing of U.S. Army Air Forces personnel is in session, prepping the flight officers and enlisted men with details on target, weather conditions, aircraft, payload, and more. Just one thing remains. “Gentlemen,” begins the briefing officer, “the time on my command...

wornandwound.com

Then Rolex released their jumbo sized 36mm Explorer after Sir Edmund Hillary conquered Mount Everest with one, and it’s been uphill since, until lately.

 

[Briar Lee]

Maryland Watchworks could restore that for you.

Somewhere in my office is the minute hand and second hand, and I have a cheap hand press and cheap crystal press to pop that all back on.

When I bought my Ultra Chron maybe twenty years ago it was supposed to have been serviced. My watchmaker said it had a good rate, and the reason it did was because it had not been worn much.

Longines had special oils and service procedures to try and keep the 36,000 beats an hour Ultra Chrons running.

He said it would need a specialist to service it, and parts were all made of pure unobtainum.

To replace it would likely cost less than a service.

By the way, this is exactly why a Swiss watch with a 2824 movement is a hundred year purchase and specialty movements are not.

 

[mikethompson]

Well we will find out! Just ordered one and having a black metal bracelet for it as well.

And....

The watch was junk. Will be getting a refund. Just felt loose and cheap.

 

[Briar Lee]

And....

The watch was junk. Will be getting a refund. Just felt loose and cheap.

Why that’s not a good watch.

The price is just too cheap, compared to list price.



But you get your money back if not satisfied.

My $67 Bliger Nautilus homage was a beautful watch but the hands were loose.

I got my $67 back.

A Chinese watch consists, like all Swiss watches, of a collection of parts assembled and shipped, and there’s intense competition.

Let’s see how I like this $100 grade Tandorio on sale for $50. Bliger and Parnis and Tandorio are all sister brands, the same exporter.



All the parts to it, can be bought separately.



The case, is supposed to be the heavy sapphire crystal 36mm brushed stainless steel military with a 200 meter rating.



I can remove if and see if the gaskets are there and sealed.

And if I don’t like that strap any 20mm flat end strap works.

There are complete mechanical watches that sell for $20 USA on eBay. I own a few. They work, but are ghastly cheap looking. They have to use $5 Chinese movements put up in a case and band that costs $5.

Just like a hundred years ago, the heart of any mechanical watch is the movement.

In large quantity the Seiko NH35A likely costs $20 each.

And the band, dials, hands and case must cost at least $20 total in China to be of good commercial quality.

A good name brand quartz watch is less than $40 if made in China, using a good $2.50 Japanese movement.

But a complete watch with a Seiko NH35A must cost at least $50.

The watch companies have to make something.

 

[mikethompson]

The price is just too cheap, compared to list price

AliExpress watches are hit and miss, and this time was just a miss is all.

 

[Grangerous]

TUDOR knocked it out of the park for 2024!

GMT “COKE” METAS 39mm

Black Bay 41mm on a Jubilee bracelet.

 

[ssjones]

TUDOR knocked it out of the park for 2024!
View attachment 302336
GMT “COKE” METAS 39mm
View attachment 302337
Black Bay 41mm on a Jubilee bracelet.

The New Black Bay releases are impressive!

 

[Briar Lee]

TUDOR knocked it out of the park for 2024!
View attachment 302336
GMT “COKE” METAS 39mm
View attachment 302337
Black Bay 41mm on a Jubilee bracelet.

When I was a teenager fifty years ago I lusted after a Tudor Prince advertised in all the outdoors magazines for $175, one year, then $195 the next year, and $215 the next.



Stainless steel case with a stainless steel bracelet. Fixed stainless steel bezel. Silver dial with gold-tone hands and alternating Arabic numeral and index hour markers. Minute markers around the outer rim. Dial Type: Analog. Date display at the 3 o'clock position. ETA calibre 2824 automatic movement with a 38-hour power reserve. Scratch resistant sapphire crystal. Screw down crown. Solid case back. Round case shape. Case size: 36 mm.

Xxxx

Using $175 and 1974 that watch above should be $1,100, according to the inflation calculators. And the one the teenaged boys all wanted in 1974 had no gold, pure stainless.

Sort of like this:




Here’s what has changed the most.

According the the inflation calculators, $50 today was worth a shade under $8 in 1974.

The cheapest pin lever Timex was more than twice $8 then.

Truly good mechanical watches that are truly cheap, have never been cheaper than today.

I own a Hamilton 947 in pristine condition that cost $15 for the movement in 1913. That was Hamilton’s lowest grade watch, and Hamilton in 1913 occupied the same spot Rolex does today in the quality scale, the best mass produced watch in the world.

1913 Advertisement



My 947 has a high grade 25 year guarantee gold filled case that likely retailed for $15 making it a $30 watch in 1913.



$30 in 1913 would be about $950 today, and you’d need a chain.

My 974 was serial numbered in 1918 and cased in 1921. Because it’s not railroad grade it’s only worth half or less what a 992 grade is worth today, in the same case. This one runs strong and is accurate to a couple seconds a day. But if I carry this one, my real railroad watches don’t get worn.



This watch habit I have needs controlled.

For $40 I just bought this modem homage to a Hamilton dress watch from Jomashop. It has a $20 retail Japanese quartz movement, Invicta gets a lot cheaper by the thousands.



The real thing cost $80 in solid gold in 1940, about $1,800 today.

My Brock might be worth $500 or more, if I don’t beat it up.

That’s the real value of a $40 Invicta homage. The new watch uses a mineral glass crystal instead of acrylic, it’s actually sort of water resistant rated at 30 meters, and you don’t worry about knocking it against a door and breaking a balance staff.

1940 Brock with 982M

Not in the slightest water or shock resistant.

 

[Briar Lee]

AliExpress watches are hit and miss, and this time was just a miss is all.

Only on those Chinese direct web sites, can you buy a $40 counterfeit of a $120 Orient.



The seller refunded the money and let me keep the watch, which is a really good fake, except it came in a Forsing box and the Orient lions are blurry.

How cheap is it, for the Chinese to make a watch?

 

[Briar Lee]

Today Swatch Group occupies the same spot that Elgin did a century ago, the largest watch maker in the world.

Xxxx
The Swatch Group is the largest watch company in the world and employs about 31,000 people in 50 countries.[5] The group owns the Swatch product line and other luxury brands, including Blancpain, Breguet, Certina, ETA, Glashütte Original, Hamilton, Harry Winston, Longines, Mido, Omega, Rado, and Tissot.
Xxxxx

Rolex (and it’s Tudor subsidiary) are owned entirely by a charitable trust, so revenue numbers are not transparent.

But Rolex only has about 25% of the Swiss watch market. They are a modern Hamilton to Swatch being Elgin.

Swatch earns about 10% net profits year, and Rolex likely about the same, except a charity in Switzerland pays a lower tax rate.

Revenue	CHF 7.31 billion[1] (2021)
Operating income	CHF 1.02 billion[1] (2021)
Net income	CHF 774 million[1] (2021)
Total assets	CHF 13.68 billion[1] (2021)
Total equity	CHF 11.61 billion[1] (2021)
Number of employees	31,444[1] (2021)

A century ago there were six big watch companies in the USA, that made high quality jeweled watches, and the Swiss made luxury watches and cheaper imitation American watches.

Hamilton bought Illinois in 1928.

South Bend went bankrupt in 1929.

Hamden sold out to the Soviet Union in 1930 and the Soviets used the machinery until modern times, maybe still.

Waltham went broke in 1957, the last time.

Elgin shut down American production about 1964.

And in 1969 Hamilton shut down Lancaster production but never really died. Swatch owns the brand (and Illinois) today.

Gruen and Bulova were American watch companies that always used Swiss movements. Gruen is a dime store brand today but Bulova still survives, owned by Citizen.

To make a watch, you must first have a case, and cases have always been machine made and the machines don’t care if they sit in China or Switzerland.

And so it goes with the rest of the parts to a watch. Million dollar watches have almost all the parts hand made one at a time on a jeweler’s lathe in Switzerland.

Rolex uses clever machines to make every part they can, and so does Seiko.

If you don’t buy a counterfeit, you still get what you pay for in a new watch.

As my old watchmaker friend John Martin used to say, making a watch is the easy part, it’s already been done for a century all over the world.

It’s the selling them at a profit that’s hard.

 

[Bengel]

What are you wearing today?

 

[Briar Lee]

What are you wearing today?
View attachment 302418

1979 Montgomery Wards LeGant

Owned since new

 

[PaulRVA]

Tudor Black Bay GMT