Are you implying there is a difference? LOL
I'm laying off this thread now, don't wish to have it derailed. I apologize that I can't mask my disgust for our government and the loss of our freedom.
Update: Timing of Removal of Tobacco Blends Introduced After February 2007
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I'm laying off this thread now, don't wish to have it derailed. I apologize that I can't mask my disgust for our government and the loss of our freedom.
Jesse, I don't think you read all of my comments on the subject. Allow me to highlight:
"Oh, I get the rule, and do my best to respect it. Without it, the forum would be a smoking heap of rubble in about four hours."
"Politics isn't a team sport anymore; it's all politicians vs. all citizens at this point."
"...occur organically in a thread, and in a way that is actually germane to the discussion."
My point isn't that we should discuss politics, rather that it's a shame we can't manage to do it in a relevant and non-destructive way. So no, not "Really?".
"Oh, I get the rule, and do my best to respect it. Without it, the forum would be a smoking heap of rubble in about four hours."
"Politics isn't a team sport anymore; it's all politicians vs. all citizens at this point."
"...occur organically in a thread, and in a way that is actually germane to the discussion."
My point isn't that we should discuss politics, rather that it's a shame we can't manage to do it in a relevant and non-destructive way. So no, not "Really?".
The Transitive property of Forums:
This is a forum (A).
Politics NEVER work in discussion forums (B).
Therefore Politics cannot work on this forum (C)
I've been involved with web discussion forums since the 90's. Politics NEVER work. It's not a people problem, it's the nature of humans on the internet.
This is a forum (A).
Politics NEVER work in discussion forums (B).
Therefore Politics cannot work on this forum (C)
I've been involved with web discussion forums since the 90's. Politics NEVER work. It's not a people problem, it's the nature of humans on the internet.
Ah, my bad. Unfortunately, that's the truth of it. It's been tried elsewhere and it killed that forum.
So true at least up here in Canada. Some of the most virulent anti-tobacco folks I know are otherwise very conservative. True, I can see them all over the place on the political map.
As Jesse indicates this is more about using policy to advance a big industry by trying to stagnate or kill its perceived competition in the market. Our beloved pipe tobaccos are merely collateral damage.
Smoking is framed as a health issue as well as an economic liability due to decreased production brought about by health related issues and costs. So there are anti smoking proponents all across the political spectrum.
The reason that the FDA gave for extending the deadline revolved around a study, or maybe more than one, that they were conducting, which would conclude by 2021. Given how these suits play in the courts any decision could be years away.
As always, my recommendation is that you buy what you like while it's available. Had there not been an extension, many blends would have been long gone. As a reminder, we're only 5 days away from the original deadline.
The reason that the FDA gave for extending the deadline revolved around a study, or maybe more than one, that they were conducting, which would conclude by 2021. Given how these suits play in the courts any decision could be years away.
As always, my recommendation is that you buy what you like while it's available. Had there not been an extension, many blends would have been long gone. As a reminder, we're only 5 days away from the original deadline.
Thank you to everyone who have contributed in a positive manner to this thread. Especially Lawdawg for keeping track of the traveling circus surrounding the Deeming Regulations. Love the "Moral Panic" post. My point being that we are well beyond partisan politics here, and the chances of the FDA going into reverse gear on any of the tobacco regs is damned near nil. They may pop it into neutral for a while, but as a better writer than I once observed, you can't go home again.
It's quite annoying when I find a hobby/stress valve I genuinely enjoy and the moral busybodies decide to badger the powers that be to ruin it instead of doing something useful. Shouldn't be surprised, but I hope these things are delayed long enough for me to try some newer stuff and stock up.
George Holding, who represents North Carolina's 2nd Congressional District, was,when I knew him back in the 1980's and ,1990's, an avid pipe smoker. He frequently attended shows, particularly the Richmond Corps show as I recall, and had a wonderful collection of early Ashton's.
Because businesses and politicians see a profit in it. Not a bad thing, but I find it very hypercritical that people who evangelize the virtues of pot are to quick to demonize hundreds of years of recipes, history, traditions and craftsmanship simply because it's not as cool as the "new" thing.
It sounds like we need a benevolent pipe smoking billionaire with good taste in tobacco who will pay the FDA analysis bill for all the finer post-2007 brands and save them from certain extinction...
LOL
Anyways,
I really don't think we need to collectively promote any more hoarding as the pipe smoking community is already hurtling down that track at breakneck speed and there is no need to encourage it any further. Unfortunately, however, it looks like the situation is even more precarious than we imagined...
With that said, I personally won't advocate for people to cellar large quantities of random blends they've never smoked before or to capitalize on scarcity by attempting to snatch up the next unobtainium blend. My goal is to buy what I already like in a slow and steady fashion until they pull the plug, whenever that may be...
lawdawg, do you know when they are expected to give a decision on this case? Is this going to be decided in a matter of days or is it a few weeks/months down the road?
LOL
Anyways,
I really don't think we need to collectively promote any more hoarding as the pipe smoking community is already hurtling down that track at breakneck speed and there is no need to encourage it any further. Unfortunately, however, it looks like the situation is even more precarious than we imagined...
With that said, I personally won't advocate for people to cellar large quantities of random blends they've never smoked before or to capitalize on scarcity by attempting to snatch up the next unobtainium blend. My goal is to buy what I already like in a slow and steady fashion until they pull the plug, whenever that may be...
lawdawg, do you know when they are expected to give a decision on this case? Is this going to be decided in a matter of days or is it a few weeks/months down the road?
:clap: The 2009 congressional legislative intent of course was to "protect the children"
Spot on. The case could potentially take years to resolve. That's common in the legal system, and even more so for high stakes litigation.
The plaintiffs (anti-tobacco groups) recently filed a "motion for summary judgment" which essentially means that they think they have a good case, and they are asking for an immediate ruling in their favor to force the FDA to restrict the sale of post-2007 tobacco products.
However, filing a motion for summary judgment is standard procedure in high stakes litigation. The FDA's response to the motion for summary judgment is due next week. My expectation (and hope) is that the Court will deny the motion for summary judgment, and the case will drag on, as Sable mentioned. Because this is all new law, there is no legal precedent because courts have not yet interpreted these laws. Courts generally grant a motion for summary judgment only when higher courts have already ruled on the same issue. I would bet that the anti-tobacco groups' motion for summary judgment will be denied, and the case will drag on with no immediate impact on tobacco sales.
On the other hand, to paint a fuller picture, plaintiffs in legal matters (being the anti-tobacco groups in this case) have their choice of forum, meaning that they get to choose the court where they will file their case, within certain limitations. The anti-tobacco groups must think that this court will likely rule in their favor ultimately, although that does not mean the case will be resolved quickly.
All in all, I expect this case will at the very least take a matter of months, if not years, to resolve. That being said, I would not count on the post-2007 blends being available until 2022 at this time.
Thank you for your informed and enlightening opinions on the matter! I have been skeptical about this 2022 extension and now I see it is with good reason. Still, thanks for pointing out that it is most likely that we shall continue on the same course for now unless the courts really deviate from established practice...
It is so unfortunate that pipe tobacco got caught up in this taxation quagmire with RYO! These newer blends might have survived if only American pipe tobacco was taxed at a higher rate instead of being exploited as a loophole. At the same time, there is no rhyme or reason to anti-tobacco legislators so we really can't place any blame here - those in power will make up the rules to suit their own agendas.
Anyway, that is the end of my political comments. I'm a little uneasy about what the future holds but I'm confident that the sky isn't falling - just yet...
It is so unfortunate that pipe tobacco got caught up in this taxation quagmire with RYO! These newer blends might have survived if only American pipe tobacco was taxed at a higher rate instead of being exploited as a loophole. At the same time, there is no rhyme or reason to anti-tobacco legislators so we really can't place any blame here - those in power will make up the rules to suit their own agendas.
Anyway, that is the end of my political comments. I'm a little uneasy about what the future holds but I'm confident that the sky isn't falling - just yet...
Okay, can’t help myself: are there any current updates?
I’m steadily cellaring at the risk of both the FDA cut off and an annoyed wife who doesn’t understand my tobacco spending.
Also, as it currently stands, the pre 2/2007 blends are still legally ‘safe’, even if the FDA drops the hammer ‘next week’, yes?
Apologies: I know this has been discussed to death, but my OCD drives me to ask for any recent news :D
I’m steadily cellaring at the risk of both the FDA cut off and an annoyed wife who doesn’t understand my tobacco spending.
Also, as it currently stands, the pre 2/2007 blends are still legally ‘safe’, even if the FDA drops the hammer ‘next week’, yes?
Apologies: I know this has been discussed to death, but my OCD drives me to ask for any recent news :D
Blends continually available on the US market before, during, and after February 15th 2007, are grandfathered in. But not all. Unless things change, "flavored" tobaccos, which we think of as aromatics like vanilla or cherry flavored blends, will go the way of the dodo. Moreover, there's nothing to stop other "grandfathered" blends from following them. I find a total ban unlikely as the "death by a thousand cuts" method is working successfully. And a total ban would affect the folks who helped craft this legislation, Big Tobacco, in order to have a virtual monopoly on the tobacco marketplace.
Oh man. While it's true a summary judgment seems unlikely, much stranger things have happened in courts of law.
Like a lot, I'm pretty much set, probably more than I'll need (in total). But there are a few Pease post 2007 blends I'm now thinking I might want to replenish.
Must...re..si...st....
Like a lot, I'm pretty much set, probably more than I'll need (in total). But there are a few Pease post 2007 blends I'm now thinking I might want to replenish.
Must...re..si...st....
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