Or.. You pasteurized your leaf when you added honey and then steamed it. Did the twists you did not add honey too also get the steam method?
Brighleaf guy.. nice info!
Tobacco Secret Sauce?
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Brighleaf guy.. nice info!
It is a lot of information, and it can take the magic out of smoking for some. The quote from mso489 in this thread is an example of how it may be like telling a child there is no Santa Claus, "Oh no-no-no-no. Not knowing and guessing is one of the great joys of pipe smoking." I am not trying to be mean, it is just that threads like this probably should have a spoiler alert.
I think the Borgwaldt company is the final piece of the puzzle in the mystery of the secret sauce. They hold the recipes concocted for their customers as trade secrets and do not divulge them. They will make a custom recipe for anyone, or will sell components to blend your own. I think there are more tobacco blenders that use their services than don't.
I think the Borgwaldt company is the final piece of the puzzle in the mystery of the secret sauce. They hold the recipes concocted for their customers as trade secrets and do not divulge them. They will make a custom recipe for anyone, or will sell components to blend your own. I think there are more tobacco blenders that use their services than don't.
http://hertz-flavors.com/ links to another tobacco casing company, Hertz Flavors.
I also tracked ownership of a third company to what is now called Givaudan https://www.givaudan.com/ but don't see a lot of interest in the tobacco market by this company.
I also tracked ownership of a third company to what is now called Givaudan https://www.givaudan.com/ but don't see a lot of interest in the tobacco market by this company.
Actually I just found a list of 17 different Tobacco Flavor suppliers. The link is here https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=yjmb0147
it is titled Tobacco Flavor Seminar and has a lot of information on how to create and analyze tobacco flavors. My favorite document so far, but it has too much good info to give a sampling in a post.
it is titled Tobacco Flavor Seminar and has a lot of information on how to create and analyze tobacco flavors. My favorite document so far, but it has too much good info to give a sampling in a post.
This post is going to cover some facts of general interest in addition to more pertinent thread topics.
Here is a document that covers the casing (involves a more sugary solution) process in flavoring, it is from a different tobacco flavor seminar than the one from a previous post https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=thmv0137
To place the casing in perspective to the top flavoring consult this image
Most terms are commonly understood. Prizing is the process of putting tobacco into Hogsheads which are large barrels that hold about 1000lbs of Virginia or about 950lbs of Burley tobacco for storage, Bales are probably more common nowadays. Ordering is the process of increasing the moisture content of the tobacco.
I want to add that not every company threshes their tobacco. Threshing is the process of removing the mid-rib. It is shown with an asterisk because it can be done at either position in the process. For those who read the Bird's Eye thread, Bird's Eye is the process of cutting the midrib at right angles and is mainly done for the visual effect. The occasional 90 degree midrib cut or inclusion of midrib does not make a tobacco a Bird's Eye.
For those interested in the flavoring agents bought by B-A.T. Here is a document describing all of the flavoring products and the companies they purchased them from. It is clear that they shop around.
https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=xxdv0210
I have been curious about Red Virginia for awhile, wondering how it was different from other Virginias. I assumed it had to do with the placement of the leaf on the stalk, and the coloring that happened after Stalk Harvesting (which may be an out-dated harvesting method) and subsequent curing while hanging upside down. This may be why some leaves are known as Red Leaf on the Burley plant, but is probably not accurate for Virginia. The Virginia plant is commonly Flue Cured and achieves it's coloration at the “setting” stage of the flue cure process. The color becomes Orange, Orange-Red, or Red commonly in this process. It seems that like the placement of Red leaf on the Burley plant, it is the leaves near the middle of the stalk that are generally going to produce a higher grade leaf. Here are two pictures for your consultation.
All pics in this post came from a Tobacco Dictionary created for Phillip Morris in 1987, it can be found here https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=kldm0114
Here is a document that covers the casing (involves a more sugary solution) process in flavoring, it is from a different tobacco flavor seminar than the one from a previous post https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=thmv0137
To place the casing in perspective to the top flavoring consult this image
Most terms are commonly understood. Prizing is the process of putting tobacco into Hogsheads which are large barrels that hold about 1000lbs of Virginia or about 950lbs of Burley tobacco for storage, Bales are probably more common nowadays. Ordering is the process of increasing the moisture content of the tobacco.
I want to add that not every company threshes their tobacco. Threshing is the process of removing the mid-rib. It is shown with an asterisk because it can be done at either position in the process. For those who read the Bird's Eye thread, Bird's Eye is the process of cutting the midrib at right angles and is mainly done for the visual effect. The occasional 90 degree midrib cut or inclusion of midrib does not make a tobacco a Bird's Eye.
For those interested in the flavoring agents bought by B-A.T. Here is a document describing all of the flavoring products and the companies they purchased them from. It is clear that they shop around.
https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=xxdv0210
I have been curious about Red Virginia for awhile, wondering how it was different from other Virginias. I assumed it had to do with the placement of the leaf on the stalk, and the coloring that happened after Stalk Harvesting (which may be an out-dated harvesting method) and subsequent curing while hanging upside down. This may be why some leaves are known as Red Leaf on the Burley plant, but is probably not accurate for Virginia. The Virginia plant is commonly Flue Cured and achieves it's coloration at the “setting” stage of the flue cure process. The color becomes Orange, Orange-Red, or Red commonly in this process. It seems that like the placement of Red leaf on the Burley plant, it is the leaves near the middle of the stalk that are generally going to produce a higher grade leaf. Here are two pictures for your consultation.
All pics in this post came from a Tobacco Dictionary created for Phillip Morris in 1987, it can be found here https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=kldm0114
Those documents make me wonder.
When we’re enjoying the “fig and prune notes” of our “natural” pipe tobaccos: which chemical company supplied the flavourings?
When we’re enjoying the “fig and prune notes” of our “natural” pipe tobaccos: which chemical company supplied the flavourings?
Concerning casing. I believe the most common ingredients in casings besides water to be licorice (licorice root extract, I do not know the amount) and cocoa at 05% to 1% weight (dutch processed cocoa or cocoa higher in cocoa butter content) Honey, Molasses or Fig, Date or Prune syrup can also be used. The casing should bring the total sugar in the blend to 10% tobacco weight. Casing is most likely where the humectant and other amendments will be added, humectants are generally added at about 2.5% to 4% of total tobacco weight. After the casing is applied the tobacco (tobacco should be about 40% moisture level) it is dried to about a 6% (in an oven perhaps) then moisture level is raised back to a 16% level, caramelizing some of the sugars in the heat/drying process (The sugary casing of the Burley is dried more than the none sugary casing of Virginias or Orientals.) (Licorice and Cocoa are important for Burley more than the other types of tobacco.)
Here a couple pics that I found to be interesting. They are from document RDM 60-040 authored by J Keaton, L Upton in 1960
For those that want to case their own leaf it may be a good idea not to case your more aromatic leaves (Turkish for example) as it can reduce their aroma. Since Burley is naturally low in sugars the casing for it includes more sugars, if casing Virginias or Orientals much less sugar (about 1/3 of what is used on Burley) is used.
The casing is usually applied warm (120-180 degrees Fahrenheit) by a fine spray, this helps to keep the solutes in solution and may aid absorption. Then the cased tobacco is steamed to further open the tobacco pores thereby aiding absorption. The tobacco is then cooled to room temperature.
I thought this was a clever proposal.
Top Flavoring is usually a last step before packaging and is only used in very minute amounts. The art of subtlety is stressed so as to maintain the natural tobacco flavor. It is usually misted on via an alcohol solution. Top Flavoring is applied to the entire tobacco blend evenly, whereas casing can be different for each tobacco type. At least a week should pass before smoking flavored tobacco to allow for even flavor dispersal.
On a side note:
From my research into quality leaves, there is a direct correlation between total sugar content (up to 24% at the upper end) and smoke-ability of Flue-cured( Virginia) tobacco, with low sugar varieties being the worst. The quality is also impaired by low rainfall years (low rainfall=low sugar) and excess fertilizer application. Lower grade tobacco could be improved by the addition of sugar before aging, the aging process shows most of it's effects in the first two years, where the sugar content is naturally reduced (glucose is the sugar that changes significantly, sucrose changes a little bit, the other sugars not so much) in the process.
From what I have found out about harvesting; Burley was traditionally stalk harvested while Virginia and Orientals were traditional primed (hand picked leaves.) Virginias are Flue cured, Burleys are air cured and Orientals are sun cured. For the home grower in the U.S., air curing seems to be the most practical, and allow easy selecting of high quality leaves. In addition Burleys do better in richer soils and can benefit more from some fertilizer application. These attributes also seem to be better for the small scale home grower who has a small garden, with experience growing other garden plants that require good soil, fertilizer and watering. Growing a Burley, then curing, and casing seem like a simple task. Buying some quality flue cured Virginia, fire cured Kentucky, sun cured Oriental and Perique can then be mixed with your home grown Burley to which can be applied a Top Flavoring if you desire to finish of your homemade blend.
Here a couple pics that I found to be interesting. They are from document RDM 60-040 authored by J Keaton, L Upton in 1960
For those that want to case their own leaf it may be a good idea not to case your more aromatic leaves (Turkish for example) as it can reduce their aroma. Since Burley is naturally low in sugars the casing for it includes more sugars, if casing Virginias or Orientals much less sugar (about 1/3 of what is used on Burley) is used.
The casing is usually applied warm (120-180 degrees Fahrenheit) by a fine spray, this helps to keep the solutes in solution and may aid absorption. Then the cased tobacco is steamed to further open the tobacco pores thereby aiding absorption. The tobacco is then cooled to room temperature.
I thought this was a clever proposal.
Top Flavoring is usually a last step before packaging and is only used in very minute amounts. The art of subtlety is stressed so as to maintain the natural tobacco flavor. It is usually misted on via an alcohol solution. Top Flavoring is applied to the entire tobacco blend evenly, whereas casing can be different for each tobacco type. At least a week should pass before smoking flavored tobacco to allow for even flavor dispersal.
On a side note:
From my research into quality leaves, there is a direct correlation between total sugar content (up to 24% at the upper end) and smoke-ability of Flue-cured( Virginia) tobacco, with low sugar varieties being the worst. The quality is also impaired by low rainfall years (low rainfall=low sugar) and excess fertilizer application. Lower grade tobacco could be improved by the addition of sugar before aging, the aging process shows most of it's effects in the first two years, where the sugar content is naturally reduced (glucose is the sugar that changes significantly, sucrose changes a little bit, the other sugars not so much) in the process.
From what I have found out about harvesting; Burley was traditionally stalk harvested while Virginia and Orientals were traditional primed (hand picked leaves.) Virginias are Flue cured, Burleys are air cured and Orientals are sun cured. For the home grower in the U.S., air curing seems to be the most practical, and allow easy selecting of high quality leaves. In addition Burleys do better in richer soils and can benefit more from some fertilizer application. These attributes also seem to be better for the small scale home grower who has a small garden, with experience growing other garden plants that require good soil, fertilizer and watering. Growing a Burley, then curing, and casing seem like a simple task. Buying some quality flue cured Virginia, fire cured Kentucky, sun cured Oriental and Perique can then be mixed with your home grown Burley to which can be applied a Top Flavoring if you desire to finish of your homemade blend.
yaddy306 it is possible that the fig or prunes flavors come from fruit syrup or fruit concentrate applied during the casing process. Fruit concentrate can also act as an humectant, and serve a double role. Chemistry ensures consistent quality when applied as a flavor and nature often serves as the source for these chemical marvels. The chemist's job is merely to concentrate and purify the goodness.
A tobacco that has “Flue-cured resinoid F50” from Fries & Bros. Flavours added to it, of course.
Good find snagstangle.
The document is mostly encoded but they provide the key on pages 123, 124, 130 and 157. You can find the codes for familiar brands of completed pipe flavors on page 142 and then starting on page 160-184 it starts listing more recipes for pipe tobaccos.
Concerning Spirits in the document they use U.P. and O.P., meaning under proof and over proof. I am guessing from memory but I believe 120 is the real proof, which would make 75 O.P. 195 proof or as pure an alcohol as you can get by distillation.
Flue-cured as defined in the Phillip Morris dictionary https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=kldm0114
The document is mostly encoded but they provide the key on pages 123, 124, 130 and 157. You can find the codes for familiar brands of completed pipe flavors on page 142 and then starting on page 160-184 it starts listing more recipes for pipe tobaccos.
Concerning Spirits in the document they use U.P. and O.P., meaning under proof and over proof. I am guessing from memory but I believe 120 is the real proof, which would make 75 O.P. 195 proof or as pure an alcohol as you can get by distillation.
Flue-cured as defined in the Phillip Morris dictionary https://www.industrydocumentslibrary.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=kldm0114
Hi! Welcome to the forum! You're eagerness to contribute as a new pipe smoker is great. Geranium flavoring is likely used in Grasmere Flake, Brown Flake Scented and the blends that have a rose flavor. There's no indication Samuel Gawith uses these flavorings made by a German company in 1967 is there? While yes the use of flavorings like Tonka is associated with SG or GH now, I imagine in the 1960s there were still quite a few more companies especially in Europe still using flavors like Tonka or Geranium. So it's just pure speculation although it could be possible as Borgwalt appears to be still in business
In my view, the future of pipe smoking may involve a barter economy. Many of us will grow and trade raw tobacco and homemade blends. This keeps us 100% off the radar of law, insurance, nagging neurotic nanny nabobs, and others who are dismayed that someone anywhere is having a good time.
@pipeman7 This thread extends through time (a few months) and is a good example of my learning process. You are right that SG and G&H may use another company, the data I used is mostly older data and may not reflect current formulas. Snuff (SG) is a whole different ball game, and while I did find their flavors I didn't find it pertinent to post. The quotes you used were fun speculations by me, not facts. I included the speculations as an example of the fun that could be had while reading the descriptors; smooth, fruity, new mown hay, floral, balsamic, etc. For me, the Borgwalt list was like a final piece of the puzzle, at least in a larger sense. I know I will continue to learn in this field. What the Borgwalt list provided was evidence of chemistry used exclusively for the tobacco market. Chemistry that is applied to top flavoring. The indications of tailor made Pipe Blends that could be modified with Latakia or Perique was my main take away. I do not think these indicate that the types of tobacco in a blend are unimportant, but it may explain our inability to recreate blends by using blending kits or mixing single type tobaccos on our own. It was with respect to the Secret Sauce that I felt it lead to a revelation.
I looked back for the snuff recipes and did not find them. All I found was general flavor notes, nothing specific. If you're interested in English snuff this is a good read. Snuff Yesterday and Today pgs 22-26 especially. Pgs 25-26 list the flavor notes of Smith & Sons snuff, but again no recipes. Embarrassingly I think this is what I based my claim on
Samuel Gawith News Article
"Bob Gregory is director of Samuel Gawith Limited, the company that runs the antique machine. Mr Gregory is a menthol snuff man: “It is very good for when you've got a bad head cold or a hangover. It clears the head,” he claims. The machine is old but some things have changed. Flavoured snuff is the company's idea of modernisation. Traditional Kendal Brown remains the big seller but nowadays you can buy mandarin and cherry favours. Their website boasts of 'NEW!! GIN & TONIC snuff' - a whole night out to be enjoyed up your nostrils. Gregory, a gregarious man with a habit of introducing Dickensian flourishes into his speech, assures me the flavours are of good quality. “If you buy a packet of wine gums, the flavour in the wine gums is the flavour we use in the snuff, so to speak.”
Flavours are added at the end of the process. Samuel Gawith have about five different base snuff products made from tobacco originating in countries like Brazil and Malawi. The best product goes into the pipe tobacco that the factory makes. Snuff is made from what's left.
“You don't need to use the finest of tobacco leaf,” explains Gregory. “Half of the character of pipe tobacco is what it looks like. You want it to look nice. You use the best you can afford. With snuff, it's a powder. As long, as it looks like powder, then everyone is happy. You've got very little straw coloured snuff, light coloured, light brown, dark brown, very dark brown and black snuff. It doesn't matter so much with snuff as long as the colour is right.”
I added the bold because we are pipe enthusiasts
Samuel Gawith News Article
"Bob Gregory is director of Samuel Gawith Limited, the company that runs the antique machine. Mr Gregory is a menthol snuff man: “It is very good for when you've got a bad head cold or a hangover. It clears the head,” he claims. The machine is old but some things have changed. Flavoured snuff is the company's idea of modernisation. Traditional Kendal Brown remains the big seller but nowadays you can buy mandarin and cherry favours. Their website boasts of 'NEW!! GIN & TONIC snuff' - a whole night out to be enjoyed up your nostrils. Gregory, a gregarious man with a habit of introducing Dickensian flourishes into his speech, assures me the flavours are of good quality. “If you buy a packet of wine gums, the flavour in the wine gums is the flavour we use in the snuff, so to speak.”
Flavours are added at the end of the process. Samuel Gawith have about five different base snuff products made from tobacco originating in countries like Brazil and Malawi. The best product goes into the pipe tobacco that the factory makes. Snuff is made from what's left.
“You don't need to use the finest of tobacco leaf,” explains Gregory. “Half of the character of pipe tobacco is what it looks like. You want it to look nice. You use the best you can afford. With snuff, it's a powder. As long, as it looks like powder, then everyone is happy. You've got very little straw coloured snuff, light coloured, light brown, dark brown, very dark brown and black snuff. It doesn't matter so much with snuff as long as the colour is right.”
I added the bold because we are pipe enthusiasts
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