Time To Get Serious About Smoking; Brisket Fat Side Up Or Down?

[cosmicfolklore]

I interviewed Ray "Dr. BBQ" Lampe, and asked him this question. If you don't know him, he is a celebrity pit master that has won tons of BBQ competitions over a few decades, and is in the BBQ Hall of Fame. His answer was:

"It depends on your cooker. You want the fat to face the direct heat. If I'm cooking on a Big Green Egg with a deflector in between, the direct fire is coming from underneath, fat down. If I'm cooking on an offset smoker, where the fire is coming over, and over the top, I'm going to go with fat up."

Well, there we go... the first descent from the run on agreements, and it comes from an expert. That makes prefect sense that protecting the meat from scorch would take precedence over drippings. It could be the same reason that you cook a chateaubriand fat down in a skillet when you braise.

 

[stokesdale]

Ha ha, funny how we can all be in agreeance, but still find some aspect to bicker over. Smoking meat is a long slow process, but you are supposed to keep adding water to make steam while it cooks. I'll wager that the steam makes more a difference on the moisture of the meat over fat drippings. But yeh, putting it fat side up in a smoker seems to be the choice that makes the most sense... except removing the fat altogether.... that makes sense also, and sounds healthier.
Also, fat could hinder the absorption of the smoke. Not speaking as an expert, just a dabbler in the smokey arts.

Good points.

Here is something I found on the web to explain why removing the fat on a brisket is needed

The brisket muscles include the superficial and deep pectorals. As cattle do not have collar bones, these muscles support about 60% of the body weight of standing/moving cattle. This requires a significant amount of connective tissue, so the resulting meat must be cooked correctly to tenderize the connective tissue.

In other words, this is a working muscle. Another piece I found...

When we exercise the tissues release toxic materials and if these accumulate then we feel poorly.

So, fat that is adjacent to working muscles absorb these "toxins", this is why fat around a brisket has a much different consistency than fat around a ribeye, for instance (ribeye fat is more 'solid' for lack of a better term).

That said, keep about 1/4" or less of fat and keeping the fat side up when cooking is okay because it will keep that outer layer moist, but it's not enough fat to actually soak into the meat.

Again, the brisket cut has enough connective tissue in it to break down and give the meat a good flavor.

All of my experience comes from when I spent some time in Lubbock TX which is arguably the brisket/beef capital of the US (next to Kansas City probably). I was there doing field work on experimental crops and was in daily contact with cattle farmers...they know how to cook brisket for sure.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Good points.

Here is something I found on the web to explain why removing the fat on a brisket is needed

The brisket muscles include the superficial and deep pectorals. As cattle do not have collar bones, these muscles support about 60% of the body weight of standing/moving cattle. This requires a significant amount of connective tissue, so the resulting meat must be cooked correctly to tenderize the connective tissue.

In other words, this is a working muscle. Another piece I found...

When we exercise the tissues release toxic materials and if these accumulate then we feel poorly.

So, fat that is adjacent to working muscles absorb these "toxins", this is why fat around a brisket has a much different consistency than fat around a ribeye, for instance (ribeye fat is more 'solid' for lack of a better term).

That said, keep about 1/4" or less of fat and keeping the fat side up when cooking is okay because it will keep that outer layer moist, but it's not enough fat to actually soak into the meat.

Again, the brisket cut has enough connective tissue in it to break down and give the meat a good flavor.

All of my experience comes from when I spent some time in Lubbock TX which is arguably the brisket/beef capital of the US (next to Kansas City probably). I was there doing field work on experimental crops and was in daily contact with cattle farmers...they know how to cook brisket for sure.

I never get much fat on a brisket to begin with, but I tend to get my meats from places that have real butchers on staff.
Also for roasts, I will brown the meat with herbs and spices first and then drop into a crock pot with the veggies, and then just let it cook on low all day long. The meat just melts in your mouth.

 

[stokesdale]

I never get much fat on a brisket to begin with, but I tend to get my meats from places that have real butchers on staff.
Also for roasts, I will brown the meat with herbs and spices first and then drop into a crock pot with the veggies, and then just let it cook on low all day long. The meat just melts in your mouth.

I cook a whole brisket on the grill probably 4 times a year, I became a lover of that cut (as something other than corned beef) when I was out there in Texas.

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

Depends on the size of the brisket. If its a big one, I will do fat down to protect the meat.

 

[shanez]

I interviewed Ray "Dr. BBQ" Lampe, and asked him this question. If you don't know him, he is a celebrity pit master that has won tons of BBQ competitions over a few decades, and is in the BBQ Hall of Fame. His answer was:

"It depends on your cooker. You want the fat to face the direct heat. If I'm cooking on a Big Green Egg with a deflector in between, the direct fire is coming from underneath, fat down. If I'm cooking on an offset smoker, where the fire is coming over, and over the top, I'm going to go with fat up."

More reading last night revealed this unanimously amongst professionals (like multi-time national champions). It's not a matter of up or down, it's fat towards the heat.

 

[shanez]

I still have a few tricks up my sleeve so this weekend I'm going to experiment:

1) I have a Masterbuilt electric smoker so I'll be putting the fat side down (towards the heat) for the first time.

2) I have been using a modified/lazy version of Alton Brown's (I'm a big fan of his) recipe which called for scoring the fat. The idea, I think, being to help render out some of the fat during cooking (kinda like cooking duck). I also would lay strips of black pepper bacon over the fat. With the fat side down this time I'm not going to score it but I'm going to still lay a few strips of bacon on the non-fat side. I will, however, use less than usual to help ensure smoke will get through to the brisket.

(As an aside, I'm going to put some extra strips of the bacon on a rack under the brisket and let the brisket fat drip onto the bacon. Black pepper bacon that has been smoked while laying on the brisket fat is one of the best things I've ever tasted. In fact there have been times I though about making brisket just for the bacon. Hopefully I'll get the same flavor results with the bacon under the brisket.)

3) I found Myron Mixon's rub recipe online so I'm going to use that but I'm going to forego the chipotle powder and increase the standard chile powder to match quantities.

4) My smoker has a large drip pan which I've always poured a beer and cup of apple cider vinegar in. (If you're going to introduce steam you might as well try to bring some flavor along with it.) I'm going to stick with it. I think this is a good happy medium in the "to mop or not to mop" debate.

5) Wood chips. I've been using a 50/50 mix of apple and cherry which I've been happy with but I'm thinking I might try a 50/50 oak/hickory mix. Not sure yet. I'm happy with just about anything but mesquite. I always seem to end up with a creosote flavor when I use mesquite.

I think this is a step in the right direction for an electric smoker in a Vegas backyard.

Results will be posted. ???

 

[admin]

I still have a few tricks up my sleeve so this weekend I'm going to experiment:

1) I have a Masterbuilt electric smoker so I'll be putting the fat side down (towards the heat) for the first time.

2) I have been using a modified/lazy version of Alton Brown's (I'm a big fan of his) recipe which called for scoring the fat. The idea, I think, being to help render out some of the fat during cooking (kinda like cooking duck). I also would lay strips of black pepper bacon over the fat. With the fat side down this time I'm not going to score it but I'm going to still lay a few strips of bacon on the non-fat side. I will, however, use less than usual to help ensure smoke will get through to the brisket.

(As an aside, I'm going to put some extra strips of the bacon on a rack under the brisket and let the brisket fat drip onto the bacon. Black pepper bacon that has been smoked while laying on the brisket fat is one of the best things I've ever tasted. In fact there have been times I though about making brisket just for the bacon. Hopefully I'll get the same flavor results with the bacon under the brisket.)

3) I found Myron Mixon's rub recipe online so I'm going to use that but I'm going to forego the chipotle powder and increase the standard chile powder to match quantities.

4) My smoker has a large drip pan which I've always poured a beer and cup of apple cider vinegar in. (If you're going to introduce steam you might as well try to bring some flavor along with it.) I'm going to stick with it. I think this is a good happy medium in the "to mop or not to mop" debate.

5) Wood chips. I've been using a 50/50 mix of apple and cherry which I've been happy with but I'm thinking I might try a 50/50 oak/hickory mix. Not sure yet. I'm happy with just about anything but mesquite. I always seem to end up with a creosote flavor when I use mesquite.

I think this is a step in the right direction for an electric smoker in a Vegas backyard.

Results will be posted. ???

I'm a fan of Alton Brown too.

 

[troutface]

Agreed. In my offset pit it goes fat side up. In my vertical cabinet pellet smoker it goes fat side down. The pit gives better flavor, but sometimes I don't have time to babysit the pit and resort to the pellet smoker.

 

[python]

I interviewed Ray "Dr. BBQ" Lampe, and asked him this question. If you don't know him, he is a celebrity pit master that has won tons of BBQ competitions over a few decades, and is in the BBQ Hall of Fame. His answer was:

"It depends on your cooker. You want the fat to face the direct heat. If I'm cooking on a Big Green Egg with a deflector in between, the direct fire is coming from underneath, fat down. If I'm cooking on an offset smoker, where the fire is coming over, and over the top, I'm going to go with fat up."

This is very interesting. I will have to try it this way.

 

[python]

I'm a fan of Alton Brown too.

I love Alton Brown. I have learned a lot of food from him.

 

[Lordbigbee]

First hour fat down to protect the meat , then up (also after wrapping).
But I still have a lot of learning/experimenting to do. A few months before temperatures will be good enough to practice again

 

[jaytex1969]

Smoking meat is a long slow process

I can never keep it lit...

 

[FurCoat]

I still have a few tricks up my sleeve so this weekend I'm going to experiment:

1) I have a Masterbuilt electric smoker so I'll be putting the fat side down (towards the heat) for the first time.

2) I have been using a modified/lazy version of Alton Brown's (I'm a big fan of his) recipe which called for scoring the fat. The idea, I think, being to help render out some of the fat during cooking (kinda like cooking duck). I also would lay strips of black pepper bacon over the fat. With the fat side down this time I'm not going to score it but I'm going to still lay a few strips of bacon on the non-fat side. I will, however, use less than usual to help ensure smoke will get through to the brisket.

(As an aside, I'm going to put some extra strips of the bacon on a rack under the brisket and let the brisket fat drip onto the bacon. Black pepper bacon that has been smoked while laying on the brisket fat is one of the best things I've ever tasted. In fact there have been times I though about making brisket just for the bacon. Hopefully I'll get the same flavor results with the bacon under the brisket.)

3) I found Myron Mixon's rub recipe online so I'm going to use that but I'm going to forego the chipotle powder and increase the standard chile powder to match quantities.

4) My smoker has a large drip pan which I've always poured a beer and cup of apple cider vinegar in. (If you're going to introduce steam you might as well try to bring some flavor along with it.) I'm going to stick with it. I think this is a good happy medium in the "to mop or not to mop" debate.

5) Wood chips. I've been using a 50/50 mix of apple and cherry which I've been happy with but I'm thinking I might try a 50/50 oak/hickory mix. Not sure yet. I'm happy with just about anything but mesquite. I always seem to end up with a creosote flavor when I use mesquite.

I think this is a step in the right direction for an electric smoker in a Vegas backyard.

Results will be posted. ???

I have a Masterbuilt also. My last brisket I used 50/50 hickory and cherry. It was good. I have to ask, does the bacon crisp up a bit in the smoker?

 

[gervais]

I think I'm going to go out and get a smoker after reading through this thread.

 

[macaroni]

" . . . won tons of BBQ competitions over a few decades, and is in the BBQ Hall of Fame. His answer was:

"It depends on your cooker. . . . fat down. If I'm cooking on an offset smoker, . . . "

I gotta go with admin on this completely! I too talked to a pit master, BBQ award winner Jamie Geer when he delivered his smoker to me (google him!). He also had a great restaurant in Ft. Worth for a while. Here's what he told me on how to cook with this beast of an offset smoker--USING PECAN WOOD only

For Brisket: smoke w/fat side DOWN - 4 hrs (275 - 290) or 6 hrs (250-270). I asked him about folks I know who smoke a brisket all night (lots of friends and neighbors here in Texas do this) and he said, ". . . you'll have all the smok yu want after 4 hours." After smoking it fat side DOWN (and yes--the red smoke ring is thick and the pecan wood smoke is crazy good and delic!), then wrap it in double foil fat side UP and put back in for 1.5 hours. Temp probe it for brisket 212 degrees. Rest 1-1.5 hours.

For Pork Butt/Shoulder-(NOT loin)--and for my tast, after doing both meats for a few years--MY FAVORITE ))---cook on left side of grill away from fire box, ) first, sprinkle w/salt pepper & garlic granules only before cooking; smoke it below 300 degrees and bring the meat to 200 or 201 only. MMMM good )

Jamie Geer, as with many other top pit masters, knows his stuff.
thnx for a great thread!
mike

p.s. I cooked brisked inside in the oven all night for many years and do that FAT SIDE UP with liquid smoke--really good in my book but NOT great like the above.

 

[macaroni]

". . . does the bacon crisp up a bit in the smoker?"

My bacon will get done. I cook it in a pan in the smoker 'cause I want the drippings. It gets done AND it will even overcook/get burned; however, cooking in the pan in the smoker does NOT crisp it (but my wife LOVES it, for my part -- I like it smoked or pan fried or oven baked).
mike

 

[captainsousie]

You have to go up! You need to get all that juicy goodness drizzling down into the meat.

It's elementary my dear Watson!

Man speaks truth. Even after reading the thread.

I gotta put my smoker back together when I go back home this summer...?

EDIT: I do rotate at intervals if there is heat from underneath though. Still lets the fat run down/into the meat.

 

[shanez]

I have a Masterbuilt also. My last brisket I used 50/50 hickory and cherry. It was good. I have to ask, does the bacon crisp up a bit in the smoker?

Directly on the rack and below the brisket produced a texture that was firm, almost crispy, but not dry crispy like can happen in a pan. It was almost a dry-ish texture but still moist. A little bit like good jerky but not chewy. It positively melted when chewed.

After this weekend I would recommend anyone with racks in their smoker to put some bacon on a rack below the brisket and give it a whirl. Especially a nice black pepper coated bacon.

I intend to always do this but I'm not going to put bacon on top of the brisket anymore as I don't think the brisket is benefiting from it.

 

[FurCoat]

Directly on the rack and below the brisket produced a texture that was firm, almost crispy, but not dry crispy like can happen in a pan. It was almost a dry-ish texture but still moist. A little bit like good jerky but not chewy. It positively melted when chewed.

After this weekend I would recommend anyone with racks in their smoker to put some bacon on a rack below the brisket and give it a whirl. Especially a nice black pepper coated bacon.

I intend to always do this but I'm not going to put bacon on top of the brisket anymore as I don't think the brisket is benefiting from it.

I'll be doing it the next time I smoke a brisket. It's bacon...what can go wrong?