Thoughts on Tongue Bite.

[ssjones]

The temperature of the smoke when it comes out of the mouthpiece and into the mouth has been measured and it's on par with the temperature of hot coffee.

It's only hotter when the unseasoned smoker sips/puffs forcefully, and/or when the pipe is lit/relit, but it hardly ever passes the 373 K mark. I've never heard of a pipe smoker ending up in the ER due to a forceful puff.

Most of my burns have happened from improperly lighting the pipe.

Heat is definitely a major factor, but not the only one. Other factors, like pH cause and/or compound the problem. Aaaand... everyone's mouth has a different pH—which in turn is due to many factors: diet, body chemistry, genetics, ailments, et cetera.

I can't find anywhere that shows the temperature of smoke- an internal temp of a cigarette or pipe bowl, sure. Smoke, I'd love to see those results.

This thread was also inconclusive. We have a tongue bite thread, about every year. As Ashdigger states here, it's way more fun speculating and second-guessing than actual measurement.

Smoke Temperature :: General Pipe Smoking Discussion

This thread is exactly why I abandoned my thoughts of testing. Its way more productive and interesting second guessing and talking shit.

pipesmagazine.com

 

[olkofri]

I can't find anywhere that shows the temperature of smoke- an internal temp of a cigarette or pipe bowl, sure. Smoke, I'd love to see those results.

PIPE SHOW

Chicago Pipe Show 2015 – Pipe Picture Report

web.archive.org

 

[ssjones]

PIPE SHOW

Chicago Pipe Show 2015 – Pipe Picture Report

web.archive.org

These first few lines are not exactly confidence inspiring. The article is full of statements that back up mine - you cannot measure the temperature of smoke.

the best measurement tool I found was your average Barbeque thermometer.

It’s a special metal that is very sensitive to temperature and I must say, it is rather accurate.

I love "rather accurate"!

I'm in the restaurant business, and use cheap and very expensive infrared thermometer devices (most expensive is a Thermocouple. They are only mildly accurate and very inconsistent.

The infra-red thermometer is very accurate but it does not record smoke temperature.

My intention was to focus on the smoke coming out of the stem slot. The smoke that enters our mouth. That data point is hard enough to nail down.

The author is measuring the temperature of the stem, which while interesting, is not the temperature of smoke. Again, I find no relaible record period, measuring the temperature of smoke.

 

[Briar Lee]

When I took up pipe smoking fifty years ago as a kid, tongue bite and mouth burn was a constant problem for me.

Today I’ve forgotten how many decades ago it’s been since it’s been a problem.

Smoke a pipe down to the draft hole and get a mouth full of hot embers, and that’s a heat burn.

Smoke something like Virginia #1 too fast and that’s a chemical burn.

Fifty years ago all the literature that came inside new drugstore pipes claimed bite was caused by hot tars concentrated in a tiny hole in the bit burning your tongue.The way to avoid it was use the special gizmo in that brand of pipe that cooled the smoke.

I took out my EA Carey apple from 1974, and sure enough Carey’s patented sleeve worked to cool the smoke. Grabow’s filters and Kaywoodie stingers accomplish much the same, a different way.

Pipe smokers teach themselves to sip on their pipes to avoid getting bit or burned. Gadgets are a shortcut, like training wheels on a bicycle.

It’s rather like extraordinary skill at playing snooker.

An indication of a misspent youth.

 

[blacklucast]

I disagree with your article. It took me years of trying before I could commit to the pipe due to issues with Tongue Bite and while steam/heat will certainly do it, my biggest problem was Perique. I love the taste and smell of perique but as soon as I stopped smoking Perique heavy blends, that stopped. I limit myself to maybe one bowl per week and without fail, it’ll bite me. There are no other tobacco’s that will cause this problem for me unless I generate too much heat. Mike with Pipe and Tamper podcast famously has a Virginia tobacco allergy which proves that it’s not solely on poor technique.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

whereas tobacco burns at 1400°F.

Ha ha ha ha... I want to see some bonafides. What the hell is your area of study? 1400F is like putting an lit oxy propane torch in your mouth with a number #1 size tip on the torch. WTF. It kills me when someone comes on the forum and tells everyone that decades of observations are wrong. I and only I, know the truth of what is really happening inside your mouth, ha ha. 1400F, ha ha. Kills me.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I didn’t read all this, because it’s annoying.
I’m not the type to argue on the internet, especially in this day and age-and by that I mean the age where people all over-on myriads of topics they aren’t experts in-are clinging to single sources of spurious information and espousing them as paradigm-shifting gospel.

As to pipe smoking, it’s another example of a uniquely human characteristic of justifying the enjoyment of behaviors that are actually physically harmful to us.
No other species uses free will to continue such behaviors, it’s a part and parcel effect of our free will.

I know power-smoking a pipe of any blend after eating crispy, stupid spicy nachos is going to make my mouth sore in one way or another, just as I know riding my Harley at excessive speeds in traffic may cost me dearly some day-but I’ll probably still do such things because it’s what I choose to do.

If I were to research reasons why pipe smoking is physically detrimental in any way shape or form, I will find data to support my theory, but in the end I will choose to do what I do-primarily because I knew the risks and still chose to start.
Have a good day, unless you’ve made other plans.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Try smoking a Virginia and then as soon as you finish, drink a glass of cold milk. Ha ha... I have actually done this once, and have avoided milk ever since. Never was a milk fan anyways.

 

[yanoJL]

...1400F is like putting an lit oxy propane torch in your mouth with a number #1 size tip on the torch. WTF....

Agreed. Just doing a basic Google search returned an article by the American Association for Cancer Research that shows pipe tobacco burns at about 500C or 932F. The temperature was measured using a "calibrated thermocouple", and was described as "relatively low", and was much cooler than temperatures measured of a cigarette.

Link: On the Burning Temperatures of Tobacco* - https://aacrjournals.org/cancerres/article/16/6/490/473384/On-the-Burning-Temperatures-of-Tobacco

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Agreed. Just doing a basic Google search returned an article by the American Association for Cancer Research that shows pipe tobacco burns at about 500C or 932F. The temperature was measured using a "calibrated thermocouple", and was described as "relatively low", and was much cooler than temperatures measured of a cigarette.

Link: On the Burning Temperatures of Tobacco* - https://aacrjournals.org/cancerres/article/16/6/490/473384/On-the-Burning-Temperatures-of-Tobacco

That might/would be the point of heat at the actual center of the cherry on a heavy puffer. But, the BTUs given off of burning dried tobacco is relatively low. Around and above 130F you can start to get burns, especially on the sensitive skins in your mouth.

Someone posted actual thermal readings of a pipe on here once, and it was around 600F, which is still hot.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Just for relativity... a 200F room temp would kill someone rather quickly. 120F is scalding, and yet, I can tamp my pipes with my fingers without injury.

 

[Briar Lee]

Kaywoodie made a big deal of doing laboratory tests on their product for years.

Time 1952



One thing beyond any debate, pipe smokers have been tongue bit and mouth burned for a very long time.

Whether it’s mostly heat or mainly chemical that’s the culprit, the fixes remain the same.

A mild blend,

Filters and gadgets help,

But eventually a pipe smoker learns how to smoke a pipe without getting hurt.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Kaywoodie made a big deal of doing laboratory tests on their product for years.

Time 1952

View attachment 202267

One thing beyond any debate, pipe smokers have been tongue bit and mouth burned for a very long time.

Whether it’s mostly heat or mainly chemical that’s the culprit, the fixes remain the same.

A mild blend,

Filters and gadgets help,

But eventually a pipe smoker learns how to smoke a pipe without getting hurt.

With the way you posted that picture, I cannot enlarge or read any of it. What is the advertisement saying that you want me to take for science?

 

[Briar Lee]

With the way you posted that picture, I cannot enlarge or read any of it. What is the advertisement saying that you want me to take for science?

That particular one claimed a Kaywoodie pipe was 35 degrees cooler out the business end than a cigarette, after so many puffs. They both started out at 80 degrees but the cigarette got hotter as it was smoked down.

There are others that show heat with and without the Kaywoodie ball stinger.

I have lots of stingers for Lee pipes, and smoke them with and without the stinger. I have no doubts the Kaywoodie stinger did cool the smoke, a little, and it certainly trapped some tars on the ball.

I had training wheels on my first bicycle, too.

I can remember Daddy taking them off, and I felt like a big boy until I piled up out by the Grade A milk barn.

You have to learn pipe smoking.

All any gadget does, is help a beginner.

 

[olkofri]

These first few lines are not exactly confidence inspiring. The article is full of statements that back up mine - you cannot measure the temperature of smoke.



I love "rather accurate"!

I'm in the restaurant business, and use cheap and very expensive infrared thermometer devices (most expensive is a Thermocouple. They are only mildly accurate and very inconsistent.





The author is measuring the temperature of the stem, which while interesting, is not the temperature of smoke. Again, I find no relaible record period, measuring the temperature of smoke.

That's the closest I've seen to actual measurements of temps. When I first picked up the pipe, I too was plagued by bite/burn so I bought an infrared thermometer with wire probes to measure the temps of all things pipe related. I meant to use the probes to measure the temp of the smoke, but I never got that far. I did get as far as measuring the temperatures of different flame sources, as I was worried the lighter was causing the burning—at the time some were suggesting hemp wick for the coolest flame (and I did get a ball of that)—but didn't go beyond that.

Eventually, the problem went away for me so I gave up on being scientificky about it.

I also concluded that if I could see the smoke, then its temperature couldn't be higher than 100 °C.

 

[anotherbob]

Guys. I've seen a lot of talk about tongue bite being caused by the pH of the tobacco, or the pH of the smoker's mouth. It's nonsense. There is no tobacco acidic or alkaline enough to cause necrosis. Burley is notorious for having the worst tongue bite, and its pH is neutral. There are foods with pH more extreme than any tobacco, but they don't cause tongue bite.

Look at this article: Nicotine stomatitis | DermNet - https://dermnetnz.org/topics/nicotine-stomatitis

Smoker's keratosis is a medical condition caused by extreme heat in the mouth. According to one study, about 60% of pipe smokers have smoker's keratosis. See where I'm going with this?

Smoke is made up of tiny particles. Tongue bite is caused by extremely hot smoke particles entering your mouth. Burley most likely has worse tongue bite because it burns at a higher temperature. Charcoal filters decrease tongue bite because they filter out larger particles from the smoke; large particles have more mass and transfer more heat to your mouth resulting in a burning sensation, while the smaller particles cool quickly enough not to burn you. Churchwardens tend to help with tongue bite because they allow the smoke to cool; smoke particles are so small that their temperature changes drastically in milliseconds, and every inch of stem the smoke travels down will reduce the temperature of the smoke particles, leaving only the largest particles with enough heat to burn you.

So, that's it. Mystery solved. We can all stop reading tea leaves and consulting the stars to give us the answer to this ineffable mystery. The next time I read some garbage about pH causing tongue bite, I'm going to reach through my computer screen and strangle the idiot who wrote it.

Not advisable. Nor is the person who writes that impaired. I took the word De-mystifying out of your title.

not the same thing. Sorry but you didn't hit the home run you think you did at all. First off this isn't a massively studied thing. The medical explanation is good enough because it doesn't really matter any more then it's something that happens to smokers. If the explanation which serves mainly to get people to make healthier choices doesn't have to be right. From a medical stand point you get the same end result no matter the actual cause. So even if you do happen to be right it's not a mic drop, case closed, or even anywhere close to it. Sorry.

 

[anotherbob]

Man, I've been piping for about five years now and I still get that (and leather tongue) almost every time. I try to smoke agonizingly slowly, still get it. Pack lighter, or pack tighter, still get it. I think I might be lighting too aggressively - the more relights I get, the worse it seems to be.
Those nirvana smokes where the starts all align are worth all the trouble, though.

sip my man sip pretend it's the last glass of whiskey in the world. That might help. If you sip you don't have to worry about slow or fast and it's way easier to control for me at least and instead of getting the bite it's a lot easier to tell it's growling. Oh and even if a burn is caused by heat I would think ph would be able to intensify the burn too so or cause it to penetrate the protective layers in the mouth.

 

[edger]

View attachment 202191

Tongue bite? She needs to bite her tongue.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Tongue bite? She needs to bite her tongue.

 

[yaddy306]

This is anecdotal, but...

One time, at band camp, I was sitting around a campfire. I got smoke in my eyes, and guess what? It "burned".

DUH! Smoke is caustic. It isn't the heat that causes the burning sensation.