There is Nothing Unauthentic About American Italian or Chinese Food

[telescopes]

Vibing off a comment by @anotherbob, the argument too often made by food snobs about America's versions of Mexican, Italian, or Chinese foods that these foods are somehow unauthentic is nuts. Even more nuts is that the versions of these foods found in America are somehow less tasty is even more nuts.

Good recipes and well made meals are delicious - in any country. The idea that somehow Americans are unable to recreate ethnic dishes is not just snobby, but disingenuous. Of course we can make and do make great ethnic dishes that can and do hold their own. To top it off, we often make them better. Case in point. The Burrito, Fajitas, taco, Chimichangas, and nachos are true American inventions (Nachos is barely Mexican, but the case can be made for it as being so). American pizza runs circles around anything I've had in Italy (Yeh, you can find good pizza in Italy) let alone many of our pasta dishes can and do taste better - (not always - but you can find places that do it superbly so). Having traveled extensively through China and Southeast Asia, I find our Chinese food can often out pace what most people will find in China. Our International student from Xian who lives with us is absolutely certain that Panda Express is proof there is a Heaven.

I always make a point to eat locally when traveling. It is soooo hit or miss. I've had Guinea Pig in Cuzco and Equador and I've had it here in a Peruvian restaurant in Palm Springs. I'll take the version here in Palm Springs any day.

America has some poor examples of ethnic restaurants. But we also have many good examples as well. But more to the point, the immigrants who came here found they were FREE to experiment and in many cases improve wildly upon the foods from their home countries. Orange Chicken, New York Pizza, and a plate of Fajitas are just a few examples of foods that are not just authentic, but elevate the dishes to the next level. A well-made Chimichanga in Tucson comes to mind. Yes, China, Italy, and Mexico all have dishes that are uniquely their own and typically can only be found in their home countries. But if those dishes are ever imported to America, you can be sure they will grow, develop, and improve.

 

[rakovsky]

I agree that Mexican-American, Italian-American, and Chinese-American food are all authentic because these communities have been in the US for 100+ years, so at least they are authentic expressions of the wider groups of their national cuisines. Mexico has been next to the US for most of the existence of the US, and the US even includes former parts of Mexico. The Italian community in the US has kept a close relationship to their home community of Italy. Supposing that some restaurants make an unauthentic version, like pizza with American Cheese, other Italian restaurants in the US are going to have Italians and do a good job making some authentic Italian dishes. I only vaguely remember having Italian food as a kid in Italy, but don't remember it being drastically different or better than anything I can imagine getting someplace in the US.

Where things get alittle tricky is with Chinese-American restaurants. I hear alot of comments that the food is better and different in China. And while sometimes I am in the mood for Chinese food, alot of Chinese-American places seem sub-standard for US food, greasy, relying on soy and frozen food. I've never been to China, so it's hard to say how these places compare to restaurants in China. I hear that US Chinese food historically tends to be Cantonese in origin, ie. from southeast China, and also Americanized. Certainly some items often found on Chinese-American menus seem Americanized, like some deep fried appetizers. Conceivably you could have a situation where low income Cantonese came to the US and made their menu to reflect US tastes at a low price to attract customers, instead of making better quality food and dishes more standard for China.

I've been to high end Chinese restaurants in big US cities where the food feels very good quality, but I don't know how reflective that higher-end food would be of food actually commonly prepared in China. I respect @telescope 's opinion about food in China vs. good Chinese food, like at Panda Express. I would like to hear more from you on the comparisons, @telescope!

I find P.F. Chang's restaurant to have good quality Chinese food. Some Chinese restaurants in the US have bigger Dim Sum menus than others, and Dim Sum can be pretty good. I've been to multiple Chinese restaurants in the same small US rural town and found significant variety in quality between those restaurants.

Can I please ask what are some of those dishes that come to mind when you write, "China, Italy, and Mexico all have dishes that are uniquely their own and typically can only be found in their home countries"?

It's nice writing with you.

 

[sablebrush52]

Vibing off a comment by @anotherbob, the argument too often made by food snobs about America's versions of Mexican, Italian, or Chinese foods that these foods are somehow unauthentic is nuts. Even more nuts is that the versions of these foods found in America are somehow less tasty is even more nuts.

Good recipes and well made meals are delicious - in any country. The idea that somehow Americans are unable to recreate ethnic dishes is not just snobby, but disingenuous. Of course we can make and do make great ethnic dishes that can and do hold their own. To top it off, we often make them better. Case in point. The Burrito, Fajitas, taco, Chimichangas, and nachos are true American inventions (Nachos is barely Mexican, but the case can be made for it as being so). American pizza runs circles around anything I've had in Italy (Yeh, you can find good pizza in Italy) let alone many of our pasta dishes can and do taste better - (not always - but you can find places that do it superbly so). Having traveled extensively through China and Southeast Asia, I find our Chinese food can often out pace what most people will find in China. Our International student from Xian who lives with us is absolutely certain that Panda Express is proof there is a Heaven.

I always make a point to eat locally when traveling. It is soooo hit or miss. I've had Guinea Pig in Cuzco and Equador and I've had it here in a Peruvian restaurant in Palm Springs. I'll take the version here in Palm Springs any day.

America has some poor examples of ethnic restaurants. But we also have many good examples as well. But more to the point, the immigrants who came here found they were FREE to experiment and in many cases improve wildly upon the foods from their home countries. Orange Chicken, New York Pizza, and a plate of Fajitas are just a few examples of foods that are not just authentic, but elevate the dishes to the next level. A well-made Chimichanga in Tucson comes to mind. Yes, China, Italy, and Mexico all have dishes that are uniquely their own and typically can only be found in their home countries. But if those dishes are ever imported to America, you can be sure they will grow, develop, and improve.

Every country has good and bad versions of dishes.
In SoCal and other parts of the Southwest you can find excellent Mexican food, including dishes from the Federal area where it’s much different from most of the Mexican food served in restaurants. Mexican food is a lot more than burritos, enchiladas, tacos and nachos. Mexican seafood can be spectacular.
In the San Gabriel Valley you can find all manner of Asian cuisine, from different regions of China including Islamic Chinese from Northern China, Vietnamese, Japanese, etc, due to the large Asian population. Keep in mind these eateries may be in the US, but they’re owned and operated by Asians who know what they’re doing. Pig intestine stew, anyone?
Outside of a few very traditional pizza parlors I’ve tried in the US, the pizza I had in Italy way outclassed them because they didn’t bury the flavors in a ton of salt. Also, bistecca fiorentina is best enjoyed in Florence Italy.
There’s excellent Indian food to be found here, especially in areas with an Indian population, where the flavors are quite different from the usual Indian restaurants which have “Americanized” versions of the same dishes, usually cutting down on the heat to fit American palates.
The only cuisine that I haven’t found in the US is really good Indonesian like I enjoyed at the Bali in Den Haag.
That said, I’m happy with the simpler things in life, like a good reuben sandwich, or Langer’s #19, often copied but never equaled.

 

[rakovsky]

The only cuisine that I haven’t found in the US is really good Indonesian like I enjoyed at the Bali in Den Haag.

I had Indonesian food that I really liked in restaurants in south downtown (or southside) Philadelphia.
In the years before COVID I had been getting over a cold so I was into noodle broth soups, and Noodle spicey chicken soup is one of the specialty items in Indonesian cuisine. It's like Vietnamese or Thai noodle broth meat spicey tender vegetable soup. It really hit the spot. The restaurants were clean and good quality in terms of food, woodwork, and artwork. I liked it about as much as good Vietnamese food, maybe as much as good Thai or Indian food. But generally I haven't found many Indonesian restaurants in different cities in the US. Generally it's been Indian, Thai, Vietnamese restaurants that I've come across.

"44 easy and tasty indonesian soup recipes by home cooks"

44 easy and tasty indonesian soup recipes by home cooks

Huge variety of great indonesian soup recipes published by home cooks like you!

cookpad.com

 

[irishearl]

I agree that Mexican-American, Italian-American, and Chinese-American food are all authentic because these communities have been in the US for 100+ years, so at least they are authentic expressions of the wider groups of their national cuisines. Mexico has been next to the US for most of the existence of the US, and the US even includes former parts of Mexico. The Italian community in the US has kept a close relationship to their home community of Italy. Supposing that some restaurants make an unauthentic version, like pizza with American Cheese, other Italian restaurants in the US are going to have Italians and do a good job making some authentic Italian dishes. I only vaguely remember having Italian food as a kid in Italy, but don't remember it being drastically different or better than anything I can imagine getting someplace in the US.

Where things get alittle tricky is with Chinese-American restaurants. I hear alot of comments that the food is better and different in China. And while sometimes I am in the mood for Chinese food, alot of Chinese-American places seem sub-standard for US food, greasy, relying on soy and frozen food. I've never been to China, so it's hard to say how these places compare to restaurants in China. I hear that US Chinese food historically tends to be Cantonese in origin, ie. from southeast China, and also Americanized. Certainly some items often found on Chinese-American menus seem Americanized, like some deep fried appetizers. Conceivably you could have a situation where low income Cantonese came to the US and made their menu to reflect US tastes at a low price to attract customers, instead of making better quality food and dishes more standard for China.

I've been to high end Chinese restaurants in big US cities where the food feels very good quality, but I don't know how reflective that higher-end food would be of food actually commonly prepared in China. I respect @telescope 's opinion about food in China vs. good Chinese food, like at Panda Express. I would like to hear more from you on the comparisons, @telescope!

I find P.F. Chang's restaurant to have good quality Chinese food. Some Chinese restaurants in the US have bigger Dim Sum menus than others, and Dim Sum can be pretty good. I've been to multiple Chinese restaurants in the same small US rural town and found significant variety in quality between those restaurants.

Can I please ask what are some of those dishes that come to mind when you write, "China, Italy, and Mexico all have dishes that are uniquely their own and typically can only be found in their home countries"?

It's nice writing with you.

Ate at a Panda Express once. Thought it one of the worst Chinese food dining experiences I've had.

I agree that Mexican-American, Italian-American, and Chinese-American food are all authentic because these communities have been in the US for 100+ years, so at least they are authentic expressions of the wider groups of their national cuisines. Mexico has been next to the US for most of the existence of the US, and the US even includes former parts of Mexico. The Italian community in the US has kept a close relationship to their home community of Italy. Supposing that some restaurants make an unauthentic version, like pizza with American Cheese, other Italian restaurants in the US are going to have Italians and do a good job making some authentic Italian dishes. I only vaguely remember having Italian food as a kid in Italy, but don't remember it being drastically different or better than anything I can imagine getting someplace in the US.

Where things get alittle tricky is with Chinese-American restaurants. I hear alot of comments that the food is better and different in China. And while sometimes I am in the mood for Chinese food, alot of Chinese-American places seem sub-standard for US food, greasy, relying on soy and frozen food. I've never been to China, so it's hard to say how these places compare to restaurants in China. I hear that US Chinese food historically tends to be Cantonese in origin, ie. from southeast China, and also Americanized. Certainly some items often found on Chinese-American menus seem Americanized, like some deep fried appetizers. Conceivably you could have a situation where low income Cantonese came to the US and made their menu to reflect US tastes at a low price to attract customers, instead of making better quality food and dishes more standard for China.

I've been to high end Chinese restaurants in big US cities where the food feels very good quality, but I don't know how reflective that higher-end food would be of food actually commonly prepared in China. I respect @telescope 's opinion about food in China vs. good Chinese food, like at Panda Express. I would like to hear more from you on the comparisons, @telescope!

I find P.F. Chang's restaurant to have good quality Chinese food. Some Chinese restaurants in the US have bigger Dim Sum menus than others, and Dim Sum can be pretty good. I've been to multiple Chinese restaurants in the same small US rural town and found significant variety in quality between those restaurants.

Can I please ask what are some of those dishes that come to mind when you write, "China, Italy, and Mexico all have dishes that are uniquely their own and typically can only be found in their home countries"?

It's nice writing with you.

I thought Panda Express' food was rather crappy. When i was an undergrad, had a friend from Taiwan. Once he cooked me an "authentic" Chinese meal. Worst Chinese food I ever ate.

 

[telescopes]

I agree that Mexican-American, Italian-American, and Chinese-American food are all authentic because these communities have been in the US for 100+ years, so at least they are authentic expressions of the wider groups of their national cuisines. Mexico has been next to the US for most of the existence of the US, and the US even includes former parts of Mexico. The Italian community in the US has kept a close relationship to their home community of Italy. Supposing that some restaurants make an unauthentic version, like pizza with American Cheese, other Italian restaurants in the US are going to have Italians and do a good job making some authentic Italian dishes. I only vaguely remember having Italian food as a kid in Italy, but don't remember it being drastically different or better than anything I can imagine getting someplace in the US.

Where things get alittle tricky is with Chinese-American restaurants. I hear alot of comments that the food is better and different in China. And while sometimes I am in the mood for Chinese food, alot of Chinese-American places seem sub-standard for US food, greasy, relying on soy and frozen food. I've never been to China, so it's hard to say how these places compare to restaurants in China. I hear that US Chinese food historically tends to be Cantonese in origin, ie. from southeast China, and also Americanized. Certainly some items often found on Chinese-American menus seem Americanized, like some deep fried appetizers. Conceivably you could have a situation where low income Cantonese came to the US and made their menu to reflect US tastes at a low price to attract customers, instead of making better quality food and dishes more standard for China.

I've been to high end Chinese restaurants in big US cities where the food feels very good quality, but I don't know how reflective that higher-end food would be of food actually commonly prepared in China. I respect @telescope 's opinion about food in China vs. good Chinese food, like at Panda Express. I would like to hear more from you on the comparisons, @telescope!

I find P.F. Chang's restaurant to have good quality Chinese food. Some Chinese restaurants in the US have bigger Dim Sum menus than others, and Dim Sum can be pretty good. I've been to multiple Chinese restaurants in the same small US rural town and found significant variety in quality between those restaurants.

Can I please ask what are some of those dishes that come to mind when you write, "China, Italy, and Mexico all have dishes that are uniquely their own and typically can only be found in their home countries"?

It's nice writing with you.

In China, various provinces and regions have their own special dumplings that have regional ingredients associated with the local area. These dumplings generally will never be found outside of that region. This also holds true for many fish dishes as well. In Italy, what comes to mind are some of the unique pastries I had on various mornings when exploring morning coffee places. The pastries' names escape me right now - I know I took many pictures somewhere. I've not seen anything like them in the states. This is also true of fish stews and seafood dishes that seem to be regional as well. In Mexico - I think about the Yucatan. Specifically Jicama and beet salads, cochinita pibil, and various goat dishes.

When I think of Laos, I think of Luang Prabang sausage with lemon grass. In Vietnam, Hanoi Spring Rolls and Bún bò Huế - although once again, the best variety I ever had was in Escondido in a Vietnamese Pho joint - packed I might add. In Morocco, saffron chicken - although this dish is readily available in the USA.

Speaking of Mexico - The Cesar Salad is a Mexican creation. I've had the salad at its namesake hotel and restaurant in Tijuana - The Beef Wellington was superior to the salad in so many ways - although the salad was a joy to watch as they created it.

I agree with @sablebrush52 's assessment as stated above. Life is good and America does many things with food that we have every reason to be proud of.

In terms of Panda Express - I have had much better Orange Chicken - but for whatever reason, the Chinese students I come into contact with all are very curious about this dish - that and Genera Zao's Chicken. Apparently there is nothing like it in China.

Lastly, speaking of Thai food - our Thai Curry can be very very delicious.

But so can many of our dishes that come from other lands.

 

[rakovsky]

Ate at a Panda Express once. Thought it one of the worst Chinese food dining experiences I've had.

I thought Panda Express' food was rather crappy. When i was an undergrad, had a friend from Taiwan. Once he cooked me an "authentic" Chinese meal. Worst Chinese food I ever ate.

I had Panda Express at least once and thought it was OK. It felt overpriced, but I had a sense that there was quality control, and it looked clean.

I had a college friend from Taiwan who took me to a Taiwanese restaurant with Chinese/Taiwanese customers in their 20's. It was in a good neighborhood, was clean and he said it was the kind of food that Taiwanese like. It came across as good food, like stew with tender beef and brown gravy with fresh vegetables like chives. But the meat that he chose was either tripe or intestines in the brown gravy stew. It reminded me like slightly better cleaned chitterlings, and it still had the same dirty locker room taste I get with chitterlings. So it would have been borderline edible for me. Some Latakia blends remind me a little like that, but I have an easier time smoking them than eating chitterlings.

 

[irishearl]

I had Panda Express at least once and thought it was OK. It felt overpriced, but I had a sense that there was quality control, and it looked clean.

I had a college friend from Taiwan who took me to a Taiwanese restaurant with Chinese/Taiwanese customers in their 20's. It was in a good neighborhood, was clean and he said it was the kind of food that Taiwanese like. It came across as good food, like stew with tender beef and brown gravy with fresh vegetables like chives. But the meat that he chose was either tripe or intestines in the brown gravy stew. It reminded me like slightly better cleaned chitterlings, and it still had the same dirty locker room taste I get with chitterlings. So it would have been borderline edible for me. Some Latakia blends remind me a little like that, but I have an easier time smoking them than eating chitterlings.

My Taiwanese buddy seldom washed his pans because he claimed the spices used would disinfect it.

 

[irishearl]

In China, various provinces and regions have their own special dumplings that have regional ingredients associated with the local area. These dumplings generally will never be found outside of that region. This also holds true for many fish dishes as well. In Italy, what comes to mind are some of the unique pastries I had on various mornings when exploring morning coffee places. The pastries' names escape me right now - I know I took many pictures somewhere. I've not seen anything like them in the states. This is also true of fish stews and seafood dishes that seem to be regional as well. In Mexico - I think about the Yucatan. Specifically Jicama and beet salads, cochinita pibil, and various goat dishes.

When I think of Laos, I think of Luang Prabang sausage with lemon grass. In Vietnam, Hanoi Spring Rolls and Bún bò Huế - although once again, the best variety I ever had was in Escondido in a Vietnamese Pho joint - packed I might add. In Morocco, saffron chicken - although this dish is readily available in the USA.

Speaking of Mexico - The Cesar Salad is a Mexican creation. I've had the salad at its namesake hotel and restaurant in Tijuana - The Beef Wellington was superior to the salad in so many ways - although the salad was a joy to watch as they created it.

I agree with @sablebrush52 's assessment as stated above. Life is good and America does many things with food that we have every reason to be proud of.

In terms of Panda Express - I have had much better Orange Chicken - but for whatever reason, the Chinese students I come into contact with all are very curious about this dish - that and Genera Zao's Chicken. Apparently there is nothing like it in China.

Lastly, speaking of Thai food - our Thai Curry can be very very delicious.

But so can many of our dishes that come from other lands.

Love some Thai dishes but none which contain coconut milk as I don't care for the taste of it. Generally love any hot, spicy cuisine.

 

[beefeater33]

Ate at a Panda Express once. Thought it one of the worst Chinese food dining experiences I've had.

Me too Brother...............

 

[mortonbriar]

@telescopes you make a good point, and I like that you have had your own travelling experiences.

When I think of 'authentic' in relation to the taste of ethnic food, I am actually referring to 'specific' rather than 'authentic'.

When I was on a plane leaving China, after living there most of the year in 2003 I started crying...because I realised it was lunchtime and I might never have my favourite noodle soup again! I have found a restaurant here in New Zealand that does food from Henan province, and their broth and noodle is very nostalgic for me, and very tasty...but still not EXACTLY what I remember. There will be some phsycology involved I imagine.

I got on a plane this time last year to fly to Canada (where I have lived on and off) for a white christmas, and when I took a swig of the complimentary bottled water from air canada I gagged...because it tasted like the horrible Canadian water that it was. My first coffee was horrible too. A few days into my trip I had normalised the specific water, dairy, bread etc tastes of Canada again, and I could enjoy them as 'specific' tastes of Canada.

 

[JOHN72]

In Spain, more of the same. You can go to the wrong place in Valencia, and eat the most insipid and ridiculous paella. When you don't put love into your kitchen work, you are stoning your own business. The kebabs in my town are horrible, the Chinese or Asian restaurants the same. There is only one Vietnamese Asian, they are a great family, everything is incredible, professional people, who keep their customers for decades. Mexican food here is not up to par. Really the best is in Madrid, but as everywhere, you have to find the right place, the best restaurants are hidden in the most remote villages.

 

[mawnansmiff]

Outside of a few very traditional pizza parlors I’ve tried in the US, the pizza I had in Italy way outclassed them because they didn’t bury the flavors in a ton of salt.

Having often followed the Food & Drink branch of this Forum I've often cringed at the American love of slapping all manner of strange sauces, dribblings and other adjuncts onto their food. This can only have the negative result in spoiling what otherwise might have been a very tasty dish.

Oftentimes when it comes to cooking, less really is more.

Back in the 1980's me and the girlfriend were touring in France and had the most delightful pizza in some tiny rural Italian pizzeria in the middle of nowhere. Basic pizza base with the minimum of toppings it was just delightful.

Jay.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I’ll back @anotherbob on semantics. You won’t find working class Chinese families setting around eating General Tzos chicken. And, I have yet to find a taco anything like a what the American thinks of as a taco outside of tourist traps in Mexico.

Now, @telescopes you may be aware (or not) that the main twelve dishes at ALL US Chinese food restaurants, have their roots in famous tourist hotels in China. And, if Mexican places seasoned their dishes like they would at home, Americans wouldn’t be able to eat it. You may have some places in California that are more authentic. Even here, we have more authentic Thai and Mexican, even Guatemalan places. But, to speak to Bob’s comment, he is talking about those places here that you’ll find in any small or large town across the country.

I’ve been to several places in Mexico and South and Central America, not yet China, but Korea and Thailand. But, I have had conversations with Chinese acquaintances. There is a difference between food made for the Western palate and what these cultures would eat at home.

Of you ask Americans what they think of when you say “taco” and 90% will describe a Taco Bell Taco… in principle, maybe not the actual fake meat tacos they serve at Taco Bell.

But, yes…. If you find an authentic Mexican or Chinese restaurants, then you’ve found something special. But, that's not the norm here.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

This can only have the negative result in spoiling what otherwise might have been a very tasty dish.

When you come to visit me, I’ll make sure to leave all seasonings and sauce off your food, maybe just season the plate with dish soap for you, ha ha. Make you feel at home. JK

 

[mawnansmiff]

Oh yes, I do like my steak a la Fairy Liquid

Jay.

 

[telescopes]

But, yes…. If you find an authentic Mexican or Chinese restaurants, then you’ve found something special. But, that's not the norm here.

My definition of authentic is probably the source of any miscommunication. Yes, I agree that one can find excellent examples of ethical food and sadly all too often terrible examples. I think you make some excellent points. However, by authentic, I don’t mean limiting the food to how it would necessarily be prepared and made regionally - although that is one definition - one many would enbrace. But I believe authentic expresses itself in ways that are often creative and inspired when liberated from the confines and constraints that Americans put on the word. When visiting various homes in China and Vietnam as well as Peru - I noticed the same regional dish seemed to vary from home to home. Which home was authentic? Each cook imagined the dish from their own experiences and life lessons. It’s no different then when they come to America and the experiences they have here transcend their imaginations and reflect such in their cooking. The Fajita is an example. So is the Burrito. My own children, who are Mexican as well as their very extended Mexican families, can never agree at all on what is authentic. All they can ever say is that it is what mom made, lol.

Bad cooking is bad cooking. That much is easy. To me, authentic captures the balance, the interplay of flavors, the use of regional ingredients, …. The spirit of the cooking. But I am a lowly factory worker’s son as my wife all too often reminds me. What do I know. My German mother made German dishes. Some times those dishes match what I experience in Germany, but even in Germany the same dish is wildly different from town to town, and too often taste awful. Her Hungarian Goukash recipe is authentic in a few towns in Hungary. But in most it is not. I made a point of sampling goulash everywhere I went in Hungary. I found no agreement on what was authentic other than everyone said their own creation was the authentic one. My conclusion is this, authentic is an almost meaningless word, but quality cooking is a treasure to taste. Which is why I wrote this. Amazon.com - https://a.co/d/5ubEdMY

 

[beefeater33]

My conclusion is this, authentic is an almost meaningless word,

Thanks for that. I never really thought about that word until now. There really is no "Authentic" American BBQ, but I guess it would apply if you said "Authentic Richmond B. Funkenhouser's BBQ from Alabama".

 

[telescopes]

Living in Palm Springs and the Coachella Valley, we have an treasure trove abundance of ethnic restaurants. One can ask, “whose Puerco Pilbil is so good that one must kill the cook” after eating the meal? They are all delicious and all seem to be authentic. But they are each different variations of the dish. The cassolet I have here is different than what I’ve had in Le Havre and Paris. But they all seem to capture the essence of the dish. Even in France, there seems to be no agreement on what makes the dish the one true authentic dish. These experiences have liberated me to reconsider my own thinking of authentic and to reconsider what it means in other ways.

​

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My definition of authentic is probably the source of any miscommunication. Yes, I agree that one can find excellent examples of ethical food and sadly all too often terrible examples. I think you make some excellent points. However, by authentic, I don’t mean limiting the food to how it would necessarily be prepared and made regionally - although that is one definition - one many would enbrace. But I believe authentic expresses itself in ways that are often creative and inspired when liberated from the confines and constraints that Americans put on the word. When visiting various homes in China and Vietnam as well as Peru - I noticed the same regional dish seemed to vary from home to home. Which home was authentic? Each cook imagined the dish from their own experiences and life lessons. It’s no different then when they come to America and the experiences they have here transcend their imaginations and reflect such in their cooking. The Fajita is an example. So is the Burrito. My own children, who are Mexican as well as their very extended Mexican families, can never agree at all on what is authentic. All they can ever say is that it is what mom made, lol.

Bad cooking is bad cooking. That much is easy. To me, authentic captures the balance, the interplay of flavors, the use of regional ingredients, …. The spirit of the cooking. But I am a lowly factory worker’s son as my wife all too often reminds me. What do I know. My German mother made German dishes. Some times those dishes match what I experience in Germany, but even in Germany the same dish is wildly different from town to town, and too often taste awful. Her Hungarian Goukash recipe is authentic in a few towns in Hungary. But in most it is not. I made a point of sampling goulash everywhere I went in Hungary. I found no agreement on what was authentic other than everyone said their own creation was the authentic one. My conclusion is this, authentic is an almost meaningless word, but quality cooking is a treasure to taste. Which is why I wrote this. Amazon.com - https://a.co/d/5ubEdMY

Yeh, authentic, I don’t mean some sense of consistency. Hell, 90% of the world’s families don’t cook with a recipes, nut cook with a sense of aesthetic for taste.

Most tacos I’ve had in the lower Americas were about the way you eat a stewed meat. Just grab it out of the dish with a tortilla and eat.

And yes, the classic twelve Chinese dishes, do have the basic aesthetic of China, but you’ll find so much more variety there.

I’m just expounding upon what I think @anotherbob might have meant. Quality as a variant, rather than a level of how it pleases us.

I’m not saying your wrong either. Both of you are coming from different perspectives in what you mean to convey.