The Worst British Pipes To Date?

[Saintwilliam]

Hello, everyone

So, I am trying to date a Charatan‘s 44. I have read all of them in articles and threads here over and over and I just cannot get a grip on the dating. I will persist... and maybe make a flow chart for my own sake. If I do do a flow chart I’ll post it here for review...

But it got me wondering, are there other British pipe makers that cause more confusion than Charatan’s? Or any other notably difficult pipes to date?

thanks

Andrew

 

[jguss]

Basically all British factory pipes except Dunhill and Parker are challenging to date precisely. Generally speaking if you can narrow date of manufacture to a decade you’re doing pretty well.

 

[ssjones]

Basically all British factory pipes except Dunhill and Parker are challenging to date precisely. Generally speaking if you can narrow date of manufacture to a decade you’re doing pretty well.

That's about the size of it. Without a hallmark, its an educated guess, some more accurate than others, depending on the brand.

 

[mikethompson]

When I ask about a date for some of my estates, I will get answers like "late 50s" or "mid 60s". I think that is about as precise as they can get without a hallmark.

 

[sablebrush52]

Sometimes it's possible to assign a period to a pipe based on its shaping and stampings, but that takes someone with great familiarity with that brand.
I'm surprised by how underserved Charatan pipes have been by their fans. There's very little helpful literature on the brand.

 

[Saintwilliam]

Sometimes it's possible to assign a period to a pipe based on its shaping and stampings, but that takes someone with great familiarity with that brand.
I'm surprised by how underserved Charatan pipes have been by their fans. There's very little helpful literature on the brand.

How does one do research on these sorts of things that goes beyond just reading what’s out there already? Is there a Pipe research methods 101? I’m still pretty new to the hobby 3 years in. But the digging for answers has been an unexpected joy.

 

[sablebrush52]

How does one do research on these sorts of things that goes beyond just reading what’s out there already? Is there a Pipe research methods 101? I’m still pretty new to the hobby 3 years in. But the digging for answers has been an unexpected joy.

The best person to answer this would be jguss. He has researching chops like nobody else. It comes down to tracking down the documentation wherever one can find it. Info comes from many sources, trade publications, company literature, catalogs, newspapers, advertisements, phone directories, patent offices, libraries, archives, census, parish records, birth and death records, etc, etc, etc.

 

[trubka2]

Other than an old Parker, the only British piece I've been able to date was a Charatan that Ken Barnes was able to put a year to.

 

[kenbarnes]

The Charatan shape 44 is the Giant Bent. If these numbers are stamped near the shank it is an old one definitely before 1967. Another date indicator is the size of the Charatans Make London England. The stamping was considerably smaller in the early to mid 1950s and no apostrophe between the n and s of 'Charatans' and no dot between London and England.
I can post a 'picture' of one from 1951 if you like?

 

[sablebrush52]

The Charatan shape 44 is the Giant Bent. If these numbers are stamped near the shank it is an old one definitely before 1967. Another date indicator is the size of the Charatans Make London England. The stamping was considerably smaller in the early to mid 1950s and no apostrophe between the n and s of 'Charatans' and no dot between London and England.
I can post a 'picture' of one from 1951 if you like?

And then there's Ken Barnes, who can probably tell you more about Charatan than anyone else.

 

[jpmcwjr]

The Worst British Pipes To Date:

Were made in Sheffield in 1930. They were pot metal plated with low grade silver. They smoked hotter than a two dollar pistol, and the plate melted off parts of the stummel.

The airway did not meet the draft hole; there was a huge gap between the mortise and tenon; the draft was constricted; and somehow there was stain in the chamber. And even new, the shape was distorted, and the....

 

[jpmcwjr]

The easiest pipes I have to give a date on are two made by above K Barnes, because I got them recently and believe him when he told me he had just made them.

 

[Saintwilliam]

The Charatan shape 44 is the Giant Bent. If these numbers are stamped near the shank it is an old one definitely before 1967. Another date indicator is the size of the Charatans Make London England. The stamping was considerably smaller in the early to mid 1950s and no apostrophe between the n and s of 'Charatans' and no dot between London and England.
I can post a 'picture' of one from 1951 if you like?

Oh that is a very helpful bit of information! Thank you sir. Here’s a photo of the 44.

 

[Saintwilliam]

The Charatan shape 44 is the Giant Bent. If these numbers are stamped near the shank it is an old one definitely before 1967. Another date indicator is the size of the Charatans Make London England. The stamping was considerably smaller in the early to mid 1950s and no apostrophe between the n and s of 'Charatans' and no dot between London and England.
I can post a 'picture' of one from 1951 if you like?

Also, I would love to see a “picture” of these old stamps. Thanks again

 

[kenbarnes]

 

[kenbarnes]

I am pretty sure that yours was made by Reuben Charatan. Why? because of the bend on the mouthpiece. I am sure this pipe is pre 1962. Reuben hated making bents with taper mouthpieces, especially the larger ones like this, as they used to take so long to warm up and since Reuben died, the curve on the bent pipes became more graceful. The photo I have included is from the 1951 catalogue and after the mid 1960s the stamping became larger. This is the shape that Barry used to make the Cup and Saucer shapes from in the 1960s. It is a rare pipe! I have never seen one. They stopped making this giant in mid 1960s I think.

 

[mso489]

Boy, I have to quit drinking this stuff. I thought the title meant the worst British pipes made until this time, to date, rather than the hardest pipes for which to determine the date of manufacture. Oh well. I'll be okay.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Can anyone explain to me why all pipe makers ever don't just put a goddamn date on the goddamn pipes?

 

[bron340]

Can anyone explain to me why all pipe makers ever don't just put a goddamn date on the goddamn pipes?

Because that would be too easy...of course!

 

[anotherbob]

Can anyone explain to me why all pipe makers ever don't just put a goddamn date on the goddamn pipes?

well they only make money when the pipe is sold to the store. So resale value might or might not be part of the brands strategy. And I could argue for either one to be the better strategy. Not putting dates probably reduces some competition with their vintage estate market.