The Worst British Pipes To Date?

[mso489]

To address the original thread title, the worst English pipes I've owned:

An estate no-name pipe stamped "Made in London" that had a gloss finish and light plastic saddle stem, that came unsmoked, but always looked and felt a little cheap, that I finally traded off.

A Ben Wade straight blast panel that looked great on the pipe wall at Tinder Box, and came at a good price, but just never stopped looking plastic because of its finish, just never quite broke in nor looked good.

And finally, the one I still have, a snappy little Parker blast cherrywood shape in briar, that smokes well but came with too much stain in the shank and took a long time to clean up. Should have addressed it right away but felt squeamish about going after a brand new pipe.

Most English pipes are better than most. I have a Britannia smooth bent Dublin with a double-bore stem, and a Ferndown smooth bent billiard that make it all up to me.

 

[mso489]

Opps, fell into my own trap. I read it correctly -- most difficult pipes for which to determine date of manufacture, but then misread it and responded to -- most problematical pipes in quality! Oh well. Confusion reigns supreme.

 

[mso489]

Maybe the original post title could be:

British Pipes Most Difficult to Date

I think that's at least less likely to be misread.

 

[kenbarnes]

"But I have two other pipes I want to show you, a Charatan Special 481 DC and a NOS Ben Wade 50 Standard. They both have a red dot on the mouthpiece and I don't know why. The dots must have been stamped at the factory at least in case of the Ben Wade because its red dot lies under the Ben Wade stamp. And apperently the DC stem of the Charatan was not marked with the usual patent no. but has the CP-logo.
Please take a look, Ken, by zooming in."
I do not know what these are. I have never seen this kind of thing before - perhaps some one out there has an idea.

 

[Saintwilliam]

Maybe the original post title could be:

British Pipes Most Difficult to Date

I think that's at least less likely to be misread.

I second this, though should it be further specified to "A goldmine of Charatan information brought to you by @kenbarnes" ?

Thank you Ken by the way!

 

[Kottan]

I got another Charatan Zulu estate which is marked as follows

CHARATAN'S MAKE
LONDON.ENGLAND
EXTRA 60

I have never heard of an 'EXTRA' grade, can anyone help dating it? I assume it is from the Reuben era.
(Unfortunately one of the former owners of this pipe has scorched part of the rim as you can see in 3rd photo.

 

[kenbarnes]

Hello Kottan

the Charatan Extra is rare. According to the Russian article it first came out in the 1920s and they were still being sold in the 1930s.

http://brbpipe.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/T-shop_1-2011-12_56-69_3.pdf

I google translated segments of this article which gave me a rough guide.
I think Charatan brought this 'Extra' quality out again in the 1940s. It does not appear in the 1952 catalogue.
As yours has a model/shape no. 60 (the Zulu) I think it is a later one possibly made in the late 1940s. Before 1948-49 Reuben Charatan stamped the model numerals individually so a 60 would sometimes be uneven (the 6 a bit higher or the 0 a bit higher etc). In 1948-49 he bought a stamp holder where you fed in the individual numerals so the no 60 would be more even & consistent.
I need to remember that these stamps were all kept in a box or drawer and I think that Reuben occasionally went through the box and ‘brought out a new line of pipes.’

It was five years ago when I spotted a pipe in a car-boot sale which was a Charatan Extra and as I had not seen one before I bought it very cheaply and researched it. I then sold it on ebay for 100 times what I bought it for and got back in to pipes after 27 or so years.

I do not know the date that Charatan first introduced machine made catalogue shape numbers – possibly in the late 1930s-early 1940s? It may be in the Russian article somewhere?

 

[Kottan]

Hello Kottan

the Charatan Extra is rare. According to the Russian article it first came out in the 1920s and they were still being sold in the 1930s.

http://brbpipe.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/T-shop_1-2011-12_56-69_3.pdf

I google translated segments of this article which gave me a rough guide.
I think Charatan brought this 'Extra' quality out again in the 1940s. It does not appear in the 1952 catalogue.
As yours has a model/shape no. 60 (the Zulu) I think it is a later one possibly made in the late 1940s. Before 1948-49 Reuben Charatan stamped the model numerals individually so a 60 would sometimes be uneven (the 6 a bit higher or the 0 a bit higher etc). In 1948-49 he bought a stamp holder where you fed in the individual numerals so the no 60 would be more even & consistent.
I need to remember that these stamps were all kept in a box or drawer and I think that Reuben occasionally went through the box and ‘brought out a new line of pipes.’

It was five years ago when I spotted a pipe in a car-boot sale which was a Charatan Extra and as I had not seen one before I bought it very cheaply and researched it. I then sold it on ebay for 100 times what I bought it for and got back in to pipes after 27 or so years.

I do not know the date that Charatan first introduced machine made catalogue shape numbers – possibly in the late 1930s-early 1940s? It may be in the RusView attachment 37634sian article somewhere?

Hello Ken,
this is first class information, thank you so much! I'm glad that you returned to the world of pipes again and share your knowlege and experiences with us. Even so, you allow us to take a look behind the scenes of the pipe making buisiness where we primarely see people at work with all their peculiarities - no machines. How funny, that your comeback startet with the purchase of an 'Extra' graded Charatan.

I think the seller of my little Zulu Extra didn't know about its rarity (like me) otherwise he would have advertised it in a special way and increased the price. In fact he accepted a lower offer from me.

In the Russian article is also mentioned that the 'Extra' grades were much more expensive than the 'De Luxe' grades....

[...] [google translation]

Extra
Expressive straight grain, excellent flame grain or already excellent cross cut. In this grade, in addition to the excellent design, there are deviations from the classical forms following the “flame”: billiards or dablins with an inclined bowl. Extra pipes cost significantly more than De Luxe (up to £ 8 in the 20s, up to £ 12 in the 30s). Sometimes, by old memory or by special order, they were supplied with hard cases.
[...]
Here is an old Charatan De Luxe (I still posted in another thread) to compare.
(Now I'm in search of a 'Super' grade)

 

[kenbarnes]

This De Luxe is a lovely shape. The 'Salisbury' shape. I think that this one is from the early 1960s. When my father started working at Charatan in 1967 (I think), the pipes already had the prefix number before the shape no. The Salisbury shape came in two sizes then the 173 (a small group 1 size) and the 373 (group 3).
Three years ago I bought a bundle of pipes on ebay and one was a large Billiard with a bitten-through mouthpiece and virtually no readable stamping. I did notice some very feint markings and got my loupe out and under a strong light I could read Charatans Make over Super on the reverse side was the name of the shop over Singapore!
I bought the Extra for £1 and sold it for £105. I did look for the seller so I could give him some extra money but never saw him again at that Car-boot sale.

 

[Kottan]

This De Luxe is a lovely shape. The 'Salisbury' shape. I think that this one is from the early 1960s. When my father started working at Charatan in 1967 (I think), the pipes already had the prefix number before the shape no. The Salisbury shape came in two sizes then the 173 (a small group 1 size) and the 373 (group 3).
Three years ago I bought a bundle of pipes on ebay and one was a large Billiard with a bitten-through mouthpiece and virtually no readable stamping. I did notice some very feint markings and got my loupe out and under a strong light I could read Charatans Make over Super on the reverse side was the name of the shop over Singapore!
I bought the Extra for £1 and sold it for £105. I did look for the seller so I could give him some extra money but never saw him again at that Car-boot sale.

That's really a rare Charatan, Ken! Not only because of its Super grade but also because of its strange markings.I wondered how this London-Singapore connection could be. According to the Russian article (s. below) the 'Super grades' were made in the 1930s. At that time Singapore was a British crown colony. This could be an explanation for the existance of a Charatan pipes selling shop in this former 'British oversea territory'.

[...] [google translation]

Super
Only the best straight grain. Regular adherence to the picture and automatically - deviation from the classical forms. Sometimes there are natural freehands. The package included a hard case orleather bag with tobacco compartment and accessories. On the mouthpiece, instead of the already traditional “CP” at that time, there is a single “S”, reminiscent of the Stanwell markings of the first years (without a crown), only not on the left, but on top. The price in the early 30s is up to £ 20.
Author's speculation. Sometimes this grade is confused with Supreme. So much so that this confusion permeates the articles - for example, Ted Gage claims that Supreme is considered the highest grade of Charatan since the 20s. This is most likely wrong - if anything, Derek Greene is of that opinion, and I'm inclined to agree with him. It never came across Supreme with its authentic pre-lane stamping. So we will leave this question for additional clarifications.

[...]

One of my Charatans I still want to show is a small apple Special F.H. I think it's from the early 60s. When I got it the stem was completely oxidised and the wooden parts were all cloudy. The cake in the bowl was so fat that you couldnt put even a cigarette into the chamber. But I loved the work when I restored it.

 

[snagstangl]

Restoring a Surprising Silver Treasure: a Robinson 8494 Quarter Bent Paneled Tomato - https://rebornpipes.com/2019/03/12/restoring-a-surprising-silver-treasure-a-robinson-8494-quarter-bent-paneled-tomato/

A england singapore connection is discussed in the above post.

 

[Kottan]

Restoring a Surprising Silver Treasure: a Robinson 8494 Quarter Bent Paneled Tomato - https://rebornpipes.com/2019/03/12/restoring-a-surprising-silver-treasure-a-robinson-8494-quarter-bent-paneled-tomato/

A england singapore connection is discussed in the above post.

Wow that's cool! It's always amazing how rebornpipes tries to figure out the history of the pipes they restore.
So obviously Ken's Super Charatan was sold by the Robinson shop in Singapore.

 

[orlandofurioso]

There are two Charatan Super pipes in my Charatan trunk ; one being a very small billiard, showing somewhat indifferent grain.
The second one a billiard with a short shank/stem and a HUGE bowl, showing excellent straight grain.

Not the CP logo, but an S logo on top of the stems, now faded out , but on the huge billiard still visible.

One Special with a red CP logo. I was given to understand that the red logo were for 9 mm filter pipe.
Not this one. Hmm

Some De Luxe Extra graded too. Extra as an addition to the De Luxe grading.

Could the russian document somehow be translated ? I do not have a clue how to, while it is so mighty interesting !

 

[sablebrush52]

Dunhill, without a doubt. While they have great figures, they tend to be exclusive, a little snobby and think that your favorite dive bar or greasy spoon it completely beneath them. Plus, a date with a Dunhill is always expensive. They don't put out on the cheap.

 

[mso489]

Cheers again for the few pipe makers who stamp the years of the pipe's manufacture and the artisans who do so. This is not a leap into the unknown, and some do it as a matter of course. Luciano for example. Jerry Perry for one artisan.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I invited a Dunhill to dinner at the Brown Derby, but was rudely rebuffed and was told it had closed years ago. We are no longer speaking.

 

[Kottan]

Some De Luxe Extra graded too. Extra as an addition to the De Luxe grading.

Could the russian document somehow be translated ? I do not have a clue how to, while it is so mighty interesting !

Hello Orlando,
unfortunately the Russian article is not avaiable in English. I tried to contact the author because I had some special questions referring to 'Charatan', but got no answer. Perhaps I will try again.
Can you post some pics of your 'De Luxe Extra' graded Charatan? The only additional grading I know is the 'Distinction Deluxe' grade.

 

[orlandofurioso]

Hello Kottan,

The one I reffered to is actually a De Luxe Special, I'm sorry about my mistake .

The grain is lovely :

 

[saltedplug]

The best person to answer this would be jguss. He has researching chops like nobody else. It comes down to tracking down the documentation wherever one can find it. Info comes from many sources, trade publications, company literature, catalogs, newspapers, advertisements, phone directories, patent offices, libraries, archives, census, parish records, birth and death records, etc, etc, etc.

I admire those with the chops for research, the findings of which are always interesting and at times fascinating. This arm of pipe smoking is one of the reasons that pipe smoking is rich. There's:

the pipes
the tobaccos
the history of the makers of the pipes and the pipes
they made
the maintenance and repair
the community

The habit/hobby/addiction truly has many faces.

 

[Saintwilliam]

Got this little ditty a while back and haven’t been in a good moment to share it. I just love this little pipe, a little Charatan stamped with a 1 and the L in a circle. Smokes great and just a beaut!