The Theory Behind Aging Tobaccco

[cigrmaster]

I hear it time and time again that once you open a jar of tobacco that has been sealed, the aging stops and you have to start from the beginning. When I aged my cigars in my humidor, I opened that sucker at least 6 times a day to pull out another cigar yet my cigars aged brilliantly. Cigars I bought in 1998 that are now 15 years old in my opinion did not stop aging every time I opened the humidor. Why is it that pipe tobacco is considered to stop aging once a jar has been opened. My personal belief is that if you have a jar of 2002 tobacco it is 11 years old no matter how many times you open the jar. I believe that the aging continues once you seal the jar again and that you do not lose anything by opening the jar once in a while. So if I were to take a tin of 2002 tobacco, smoke a bowl and then jar it up for another 3 years, does that mean it has stopped aging and it should be considered 2002 tobacco? I personally do not think so.
So am I crazy or just ignorant to the ways of aging pipe tobacco?

 

[spartan]

I agree with you.
I just think they don't know what the heck they're talking about.
To make the tobacco "Stop Aging" you would have to take out 100% of the oxygen. Just opening it, taking a sample, and then closing it for another few years, probably might accerlerate or slow down any aging that's allready taken place, but definately does not stop it.
I think it makes sense that it would accelerate the process by introducing new oxygen to interact with.
Who knows? It's all hearsay(including my post) unless I here an expert chime in with personal experience or facts.

 

[J. Mayo]

Never understood this either. I've heard it, just chose to ignore it since it never made the least bit of sense to me.

 

[javajunkie]

Premium hand made cigars will age loose in a humidor, but will age better and more consistently in sealed boxes inside a humidor. Current theory is less air exchange, slowly handled over time, is most beneficial. Also, it seems to not be an apples to apples comparison, as the airflow over a cigar (rolled firm and well), is vastly different than the air flow over any cut of pipe tobacco, which has much greater surface area. (as a disclaimer, I am a novitiate in pipes, but i know cigars fairly well)
At the end of the day, if you have something you enjoy smoking, what does it matter if cracking that sucker halts the aging or not, right?

 

[hfearly]

I open my Mason jars all the time and the tobacco ages beautifully. After all the aging process needs Oxygen. Maybe the urban myth stems from a misunderstanding: you should not break the vacuum seal of a tin if you are aging the tobacco in the original tin, and that translated somehow over to mason jars?

 

[05venturer]

Thank You for this, although I am fairly new here I too always thought that opening a jar stopped the aging was B.S. Glad to know I am not the only crazy person here :crazy:

 

[uberam3rica]

I'm with you. I do think that opening it may make it age a little slower, but I don't think it will make too big of a difference.

 

[withnail]

As I understand it, opening a sealed jar or tin doesn't so much stop the ageing but does change it. So a tin of 5 year old tobacco will be different to the same blend that has been opened a few times.
This is based on what I've read although it would be an interesting experiment to carry out.

 

[doctorthoss]

No one has ever said that aging "stops" when the seal is broken. At least, I've never heard GL Pease or any of the many experienced smokers or tobacco blenders on the various boards I frequent claim any such thing.

What they agree upon is that aging CHANGES once you break the seal. When you open the tin, you are allowing oxygen, bacteria, and everything else in the air to flood into an environment that has been sealed for years. At that point, the original aging process is disrupted and a new one begins. In the case of virginias, once that seal is broken you may start to lose some of the subtleties/complexity that have built up over the years (which is why they recommend smoking up an aged tin fairly quickly). Then again, you may not....Tastes are very subjective. You can of course re-seal the container and it will continue to age. But their point seems to be that it won't age in the same way it was aging when the tin was sealed. As Pease has pointed out, it might continue to age into something better than it otherwise might have done, or it might not.
Personally, I think people spend a bit too much time worrying about it. I have noticed that when I re-seal a container from batch "x" of a mainly virginia blend that it tastes very different from the other sealed containers after a few months pass. But I certainly wouldn't call the end product any worse.

 

[olewaylon]

There are a lot of good points in this post. Im perplexed.

 

[yadan]

"Premium hand made cigars will age loose in a humidor, but will age better and more consistently in sealed boxes inside a humidor. Current theory is less air exchange, slowly handled over time, is most beneficial."
True enough, but one problem in aging both cigars and pipe tobacco is estimating when the tobacco will 'peak out."

Not only do different tobaccos and cigars peak out at different aging periods, but 'peaked flavor' is a very subjective ideal. For example, when I aged Habanos, my ideal peaking period for many vitolas was about 5 years - whereas others prefer 3 years or, like the master collector Min Ron Nee, 40 years!

 

[crpntr1]

I don't know whats true and what isn't, but I read (on this site but not sure where) that tobacco being aged starts to make changes after aprox 3 months and if it is opened and resealed it wont start to "age" again for aprox 3 months. Something about the enzymes vs oxigen ratio

 

[spartan]

No one has ever said that aging "stops" when the seal is broken.

Probably shouldn't have opened with that. I almost didn't read the rest of your post. Obviously it has been said or we wouldn't be talking about it.
As long as we're talking about people's tastes, we'll always get, "Maybe it will, maybe it won't" type answers.
To stay on point I think we can all agree that: No, opening the tin in the middle of ongoing fermentation will NOT stop the aging process. Because that's just crazy talk.

 

[cigrmaster]

yadan, I have Min's book and I personally think he has his head up his ass about 40 year old cigars.
doc,

No one has ever said that aging "stops" when the seal is broken. At least, I've never heard GL Pease or any of the many experienced smokers or tobacco blenders on the various boards I frequent claim any such thing.

What they agree upon is that aging CHANGES once you break the seal. When you open the tin, you are allowing oxygen, bacteria, and everything else in the air to flood into an environment that has been sealed for years. At that point, the original aging process is disrupted and a new one begins. In the case of virginias, once that seal is broken you may start to lose some of the subtleties/complexity that have built up over the years (which is why they recommend smoking up an aged tin fairly quickly). Then again, you may not....Tastes are very subjective. You can of course re-seal the container and it will continue to age. But their point seems to be that it won't age in the same way it was aging when the tin was sealed. As Pease has pointed out, it might continue to age into something better than it otherwise might have done, or it might not.

I think that a tin that was vacuum sealed and then opened and then aged again will age differently than a jar of bulk tobacco that was not vacuum sealed and had the same thing done. But will it really make that much of a difference when you go to smoke either of them 4 years later? How does the aging differ, why does it differ, is it a better thing to add air 5 years down the road? Cigars have fresh air circulating around them all the time, is that transfer of air a good thing? Should people be adding air once a year to their sealed jars to promote better aging? Surely there is someone out there that has these answers. lol

 

[admin]

It doesn't stop aging.
You may be thinking of the information that once you open a sealed tin, that the aging process will change.
If you have two identical 5-year old tins that have been kept under the same conditions, they should have aged about the same.
Now, say you open one of them to start smoking, but you seal the opened tin in a plastic bag, or jar up the rest of the contents, and age it for another five years, while still aging the other unopened tin for five more years.
Now, ten years down the road, you open the other tin.
You will have two differently aged tobaccos that will likely display some differences when smoked.
This applies to whether the tins are vacuum sealed or not, but vacuum sealed tins do age more slowly and differently, but they do age.
Greg Pease has talked about his at least a few times in his articles. The above is in my own words from my understanding.

 

[dragonslayer]

Just some things that I believe through research and personal experience:
Cigars are different than pipe tobacco in ageing. They are wrapped and ageing process inside the stick has a small amount of oxygen exchange and doesn’t rely much on the anaerobic side of aging. There biggest issue is moisture causing mold, or drying them out. There ageing is almost entirely based on long leaf and mixed filler leaf blends ageing. That’s why the change is much less than pipe tobacco.
There are two types of ageing in pipe tobacco as the leaf is free from wrapping. You have the ageing of the leaf itself with chemical reactions that occur depending on the type of leaf itself. That’s why non VA used as a general term, really doesn’t age as far as flavor. They will blend with other leaf, casing and toppings. But in the end you’re just storing them to protect them and keep them from drying. Aromatics are so heavily cased and topped and some with chemicals will never change.
When it comes to VA leaf for some reason there’s a higher ageing that takes place. With both leafs internal changes and the effects of anaerobic bacteria on the leaf. I think that’s where most of the confusion comes into play. Tins are vacuum sealed but there’s a small amount of oxygen present. Properly jarred VA tobacco will gain on the side of the anaerobic part of ageing with more oxygen available which once consumed produces more anaerobic bacteria.
So ageing is actually two parts and each adds things to the leaf. Not all things are good but the majority gain in flavor. So the confusion comes when you open a tin or jar. You haven’t stopped the leaf from its natural ageing but you have reset the bacterial changes as that process must begin again. The result can be small, but they will be different. So the best possible ageing occurs if the tin or jar is left sealed taking advantage of both. I believe that the jarred is better than tins as it will have more oxygen and thus a greater return on the bacterial side of the ageing. But again, the ageing of the leaf itself is the same, just the bacterial part different. This does lead to two different flavors.
The important part is the end result. If you take the many quotes from Greg Pease they’re actually confusing and do contradict each other at times. So it boils down to flavor, you will have an aged flavor but each will have a different flavor, whether it’s major or not will probably come down to the different leaf and how they were cased and blended.
So after my long history of cigar ageing and the research I’ve done through many hours of pouring through information and talks with my daughter who’s a bio-chemist, has led me to these conclusions and how I age my tobacco. Tins are best left as they are. I know I’m losing out on the ultimate dual ageing process, but as long as it’s a single pressed tin, it’s in the safest environment. Rolled tin is a completely different story and all tobacco in rolled tin should be transferred to jars. Rolled tin is not reliable and is not FDA approved for long term storage. The fact of problems already occurring with the biggest is the unknown. These are diagonal tolled tin with seams sprayed with either a waxy coating or slightly plastic depending on brand, and a crimped bottom piece whose seal can change form as it’s a different product than the sides. All these are done by different processing plants with their own guidelines of quality, and the human and machine ability to make mistakes. So I see no reason to even argue about that.
Jarred tobacco should be added to the jar without pressing it (ribbon cut you can press a bit), and leaving about a half inch of air at the top. Half flake can be stacked in piles in jars wide enough so curling in at the ends is minimal, they will shrink. Full length flake should be packed and kept on its side to maintain the shape and not wilt and sag when you plan for long term storage. I’ve seen people ageing flake by rolling it up, this may be a good way for short term storage of 5 years or so, but after 10 years I think they will come apart as shreds.
But as in all things…To each his own.
Craig

 

[cigrmaster]

Great info guys, thanks.
I think we need to do an experiment. Take two identical tins that are 5 years old, open one tin breaking the vacuum seal and then jar that up. Open them both up say 3 years later and smoke them to see if there is a noticeable difference. I think that Kevin and I should be the guinea pigs for this experiment, what do you say Kevin, up for the challenge. I have 2 2008 tins of Escudo we can use for the experiment. When the 3 years are up we can sit down and smoke them to see if we can notice any significant changes. Since Kevin is an accomplished tobacco reviewer, he will be great at describing the flavors and all the nuances that a well written review needs, my command of the English language sucks so we need a good writer for this. I'll buy the sushi dinner Kevin and we can smoke after we have gorged ourselves on Blue Fin Fatty Tuna( my favorite sushi). lol

 

[dragonslayer]

That’s a great ideal and should take it one step further. This should give you four slightly different flavors. The three year olds may not have changed a lot, but that should be enough to maybe gage the changes. I would add two fresh tins and open one and jar it perfect. You should probably just use three year tins to start. The jars would need to be small enough to limit the space and give the time for the aerobic bacteria to use up the oxygen and the anaerobic to take effect. Both 3 year old tins will have only minor anaerobic environment to start.
1. 3 years in a tin with 2 years more just tin aged with minor anaerobic environment

2. 3 years in a tin with 2 years with a more robust anaerobic environment

3. 2 years in a tin with minor anaerobic environment

4. 2 years in a robust anaerobic environment
The chemical composition of the tobacco will be different in each one, but how much difference in appearance and flavor occurred. None, slight, good or bad.

You could add a fifth one where you add a fresh tin baked at 6/120 or 6/180 and throw that in.

 

[olewaylon]

i appreciate your sacrifice in the name of science. Could someone please seal me and let me out when the experiment is over?

 

[sparroa]

From the Tobacco Aging FAQ:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/92384204/Tobacco-Aging-FAQ
Once a tin is open, store it in a cool place, sealed as best you can seal it. [Aging is] an amazingly complex medley of carefully choreographed chemical and microbial dances. But,the bottom line is, when you open the tin, it's over. Other changes will take place, but it's never going to be the same again.
GL PEASE,

2001-10-17
Once air is reintroduced, the anaerobes snuff it. If there are endospores forming, they'll sprorulate, and the process *could* conceivably be restarted, *if* the correct environmental conditions were made present. But, one of those correct conditions is the absence of oxygen. So, either the tin would have to be fully evacuated, or some aerobic bacterial process would, once again, have to consume the O2 that is now in the tin. It's all a delicate dance of tiny life forms. Once you mess up the ecology that's been carefully crafted over thousands, even millions of generations of bacteria, it's tough to get it back "the way it was."
GL PEASE

2001-10-17
If you buy tobacco with significant age already, the picture changes. As soon as you open that tin, or high-barrier bag, you introduce significant changes to the environment within the container. From that point, all bets are off. Perhaps I shouldn't say that the blend will no longer age, but it will age differently from that point forward.
GL PEASE, 2003-10-28
The aging process is a series of both biological activities and organic reactions, some of which can be very slow. Many of reactions tend to happen sequentially, so once the environment is radically changed by introducing fresh air, all bets are off. Further, all those lovely aromas that emanate from that freshly opened tin are volatile organic products that, once shared with the angels, is lost and gone forever. There's no way to revers time and return things to the original state. Once you open it, smoke it. It will certainly change, but it will not likely improve in the same way that it will once it's sealed up.
GL PEASE, 2003-11-11

_______________________________
I don't take GLP's word above all on such matters but I am more inclined to go with his observations than general heresay. I respect Harris' experienced observations about cigars and I am interested by this information , but I have to say that I am not convinced by the general condemnation of the theory in this thread. Tobacco could stop fruitfully aging when the seal is broken after a set period of time - easily.
None of us here (to my knowledge) are chemists so I think that we should be more open to unforeseen possibilities rather than to dogpile on theories because we think they cannot be confirmed by common sense or the naked eye or some other form of unaided perception. That, my friends, is foolish.
Experimentation is likely required but we will not likely receive many satisfactory answers as there are so many factors at play. Best of luck to whoever tries to get down to the facts!