Please do note I haven't quit smoking despite the higher taxes: I am just buying tobacco somewhere else. This is income the UK tax and revenues office is loosing to Spain.
The Future of Pipe Smoking
- Thread starter jorgesoler
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Three scenarios, out of about one thousand that could be projected:
1. Taxing could become irresistible with the health rationale and the fun of pipe smoking,
the variety of blends and affordable tobacco prices could disappear, consigning pipes to
curios collections.
2. While cigarette smoking morphs into electronic devices, pipe smoking could hang on as
a small demographic of special interest folks, supporting tobacco farmers and blenders,
and pipe carvers, at a modest but ongoing scale.
3. Legal pipe tobacco could be taxed off the market, and a black market could arise so that
selling it would be similar to selling pot most places today, giving rise to large geriatric
cell blocks in some facilities. Three years for possession of Carter Hall. Gramps.
1. Taxing could become irresistible with the health rationale and the fun of pipe smoking,
the variety of blends and affordable tobacco prices could disappear, consigning pipes to
curios collections.
2. While cigarette smoking morphs into electronic devices, pipe smoking could hang on as
a small demographic of special interest folks, supporting tobacco farmers and blenders,
and pipe carvers, at a modest but ongoing scale.
3. Legal pipe tobacco could be taxed off the market, and a black market could arise so that
selling it would be similar to selling pot most places today, giving rise to large geriatric
cell blocks in some facilities. Three years for possession of Carter Hall. Gramps.
Trying to eradicate smoking with social policy or engineering is the same as trying to eradicate drugs by means of making them illegal: it does not work.
I don't mean any disrespect to you mate, but this is what I call "fanaticism." An open minded individual should always be able to change his opinion when new data is available that contradicts his personal beliefs. Science would not be possible otherwise.
At the end of the day, all discussion of the policies of western democracies (particularly as it regards taxation and specifically "sin taxes", ie social engineering)) is moot. We have crossed the Event Horizon after which western universal suffrage democracies can only collapse under their own bloat and waste. The only relevant questions are when?, and how? But certainly I digress into topics that are uncomfortable. So I will haunt this thread no further. Cheers to my pipesmoking brethren. May you wrap yourself in whatever ideology feels most comfortable. After all, it's all fiddling amidst the embers.
One last post: Laffer addresses taxes and government income. Your question was about the future of pipe smoking with respect to taxes. It's really very easy, no or minimal tobacco sales means little or no tax revenue. But, taxes are not causing the drop in tobacco usage, health concerns and the attached propaganda are reducing the tobacco market.
Taxes on tobacco products have very little impact on tobacco usage. This is akin to gasoline taxes, at least in America, taxes are no where near the level needed to reduce gasoline usage. Liquor taxes the same. These three products, tobacco, fuel and booze will have taxes raised many percent over current levels before the taxes become meaningful with regard to reducing demand. This will be done in relatively painless increments. With gasoline it will not be done until a reasonable alternative is available as over pricing gasoline will cause severe problems economically. Booze and cigarettes? Not critical.
I hope this answers your original request for input.
Every time I respond to such a post I feel . . . so . . . so, violated (sob!). It's sooooo demeaning, as I know I'm being sucked in and yet, still respond. Self-flagellation I suppose.
Taxes on tobacco products have very little impact on tobacco usage. This is akin to gasoline taxes, at least in America, taxes are no where near the level needed to reduce gasoline usage. Liquor taxes the same. These three products, tobacco, fuel and booze will have taxes raised many percent over current levels before the taxes become meaningful with regard to reducing demand. This will be done in relatively painless increments. With gasoline it will not be done until a reasonable alternative is available as over pricing gasoline will cause severe problems economically. Booze and cigarettes? Not critical.
I hope this answers your original request for input.
Every time I respond to such a post I feel . . . so . . . so, violated (sob!). It's sooooo demeaning, as I know I'm being sucked in and yet, still respond. Self-flagellation I suppose.
Spain may already have caught on - by maintaining a somewhat lower tax rate on tobacco they gain greater sales to foreigners, thus increasing their revenues. Spain could certainly use the money.
I would also add that I am not quite so gloomy about the future of pipe smoking. The hobby/religion is experiencing something of a renaissance in the US. For example, admittedly at the risk of inferring too much from a single case, KC area B&Ms are doing more to appeal to the pipe smoker, not less. Additionally, all the tobacco hoarding discussed on this forum suggests at least steady demand for pipe tobacco. That demand will be met at least part way (or even exceeded) by supply.
Well, if this thread is any indication, it seems like pipe smoking is becoming pretty fashionable with the elite in other parts of the world, particularly Russia and Asia. Maybe pipe smoking will continue to drift east.
It's nice knowing that my misery is of some little value to others. I just can't help myself, it's enjoyable and painful at the same time. Well, no good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4q6eaLn2mY
Warren, which one is you? The hoods make identification very difficult.
Warren, which one is you? The hoods make identification very difficult.
I'd be the one in the rear, off camera, with the broom and dust pan. An important and uncredited part.
Taxes can have a big impact on smoking, take Australia for example, those prices are killing pipe community. That being sad, the biggest problem for future pipe smoking could be insurance companies. No cellar helps you if you can't afford insurance.
No offense to you insurance sales people, but I think insurance is or has become nothing less than a scam.
We are funneled to these insurers by financial institutions to protect our homes, cars and health. I'm not an economist but I just don't see the insurance business as anything more or less than a ponzi scheme.
We are funneled to these insurers by financial institutions to protect our homes, cars and health. I'm not an economist but I just don't see the insurance business as anything more or less than a ponzi scheme.
This is a very difficult subject. You have politicians "doing the right thing" and taxing tobacco "to save the kiddies" and you have people fighting for their adult right to do what they choose.
In all honesty it's merely a fight on cigarettes and the pipe and cigar worlds have somehow gotten swallowed up in it. Honestly, I find it laughable to lump pipes in with cigarettes and a "save the children" campaign. I mean let's be serious here, what 12yr old kid these days would take the time to pack a pipe, char light it, tamp it, and true light it, then tend the bowl for 45 minutes, and afterwards let it cool and clean it?
As far as the tax thing goes that's another slippery slope. Politicians don't care if it makes them money, only if it reduces the number of smokers. You also have people who enjoy their tobacco so much they'll go elsewhere to buy it and continue to be a smoker which means the country is losing money to the economy and they still have a smoker on hand, so the policy has accomplished absolutely nothing.
My personal hope is that legislatures wise up and exempt pipe and cigars from this tobacco war as studies haven't proven that they cause lung cancer like cigarettes do and the Surgeon General's Report even stated that non-inhaling pipe smokers outlive non-smokers on average by two years.
In all honesty it's merely a fight on cigarettes and the pipe and cigar worlds have somehow gotten swallowed up in it. Honestly, I find it laughable to lump pipes in with cigarettes and a "save the children" campaign. I mean let's be serious here, what 12yr old kid these days would take the time to pack a pipe, char light it, tamp it, and true light it, then tend the bowl for 45 minutes, and afterwards let it cool and clean it?
As far as the tax thing goes that's another slippery slope. Politicians don't care if it makes them money, only if it reduces the number of smokers. You also have people who enjoy their tobacco so much they'll go elsewhere to buy it and continue to be a smoker which means the country is losing money to the economy and they still have a smoker on hand, so the policy has accomplished absolutely nothing.
My personal hope is that legislatures wise up and exempt pipe and cigars from this tobacco war as studies haven't proven that they cause lung cancer like cigarettes do and the Surgeon General's Report even stated that non-inhaling pipe smokers outlive non-smokers on average by two years.
Someone needs to take a basic economics class. Perhaps Econ 101 at the local community college or a near by university. Insurance companies do not make money by offering insurance. The profit is made through investing. Putting moneys into local businesses, global businesses, real estate, etc. is where to money for dividends and payouts comes from. Insurance companies make profits by growing money. If an insurance relied on customers only, they would never realize a profit. No one would invest in them! It's not near as simple as you so naively believe.
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