The Breathability Of Briar Wood - What Do You Think?

[pitchfork]

On breathability, what most people in these discussions have in mind is whether briar absorbs moisture during the smoke and, relatedly, whether coatings on the outside of the bowl therefore lead to wet or hot smokes.
All of the evidence clearly shows that briar absorbs moisture (water) very, very slowly. During the course of smoking a bowl, the amount of moisture absorbed is so little as to be unnoticeable. A thick cake may noticeably absorb moisture, though. Following from that, a shellac coating or even varnish -- hell, even plastic wrapped around the outside of the pipe, isn't going to have any effect whatsoever on the moisture absorbed by the briar as the water produced from smoking never gets close to the outside of the bowl. The same would be true of heat transfer. A coated pipe doesn't smoke hotter because it's coated with something more or less impervious to moisture. A coating of something on the outside of the bowl may have some tiny effect (positive or negative?) on the ability of the bowl to absorb heat, but you wouldn't notice it as a smoker. That is, it won't make the smoke noticeably cooler or warmer, but it will affect how warm the bowl feels to your hand, simply because of the texture.

 

[misterlowercase]

While we are on topic of oil curing. As Sas suggests, the wood we get today is much better processed that it was a long time ago. So the need to "oil cure" to remove all impurities, in my opinion, is not necessary. I'd argue it probably wasn't necessary in the first place. With that being said, as I understand it, it does impart a unique flavor during the first few smokes. Although after the briar is broken in, you probably couldn't tell an air cured pipe from an oil cured pipe. Although I believe oil curing does have a niche following and may attract a devoted fan base.

I think perhaps that oil-curing may perhaps aid in getting extra gnarly blasts?
Ashton came up with the Pebble Grain patent where he used steam to soften the wood then blast it, and those PG's do appear to have gnarlier blasts.
The question I have is in regards to the very early Dunhill Shells, what helped them get those incredible blasts?????
How'd they do it???
Nobody else can come close to those oldboys,

with the exception of Michael Parks.

 

[pitchfork]

mlc, on the Dunhills, isn't it because of the Algerian briar used back then?

 

[misterlowercase]

mlc, on the Dunhills, isn't it because of the Algerian briar used back then?

That may be part of it, but now (I think?) Algerian briar is available again and being used for pipes and I ain't seen nuthin' like them old Shells emerge upon the scene.
According to Balfour in his magnum opus, Dunhill outsourced the blasting in the early days to the London Sandblast Co. of which I've found very few details --- what kind of apparatus were they using? Media? Nozzles? etc etc
Nobody really knows when Dunhill finally invested in a sandblaster and started doing the work in-house.
Perhaps it did have a lot to do with the wood, back then they were still getting very very old root, yes?
I dunno.
I wish we had the answers!

 

[clickklick]

The old algerian is NOT anything like the algerian currently available.
Sandblasting methods can be pretty closely guarded amongst makers, but i have yet to hear of anyone boiling a block with water and blasting it while it is still warm/wet. Although i think heating the wood before blasting would do something.Not sure what until I try it myself. And of course, I don't oil cure so I'll have nothing to compare the difference to. It'll just have to be briar blasted room temp, and briar blasted heated.

 

[misterlowercase]

The old algerian is NOT anything like the algerian currently available.

I didn't know that.
What makes it different?
EDIT:

earlier I mentioned Ashton's Pebble Grain, it should have been the Pebble Shell,

those were the ones with the patented special process.

 

[clickklick]

I am guessing just overall climate and environmental changes over the years. I have heard nothing but praises of the old algerian.
However, I purchased more than a few blocks of the new stuff only to have to toss it due to major internal pits and fissures in the wood.
I have sworn off ever buying more and am sticking to italian, although I have yet to try any new grecian, I have tried some 20 year old stuff with better luck. So far, the italian quality has surpassed both.

 

[misterlowercase]

I am guessing just overall climate and environmental changes over the years. I have heard nothing but praises of the old algerian.
However, I purchased more than a few blocks of the new stuff only to have to toss it due to major internal pits and fissures in the wood.

I think that was why Alfred started blasting them, it was a root unsuitable for smooths, or so I've heard, and his solution was to obliterate the surface with that heavy industrialized process we all love so much - it was pure genius on his part!

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

frozenchurchwarden:

Any pipe you find that smokes poorly can be re-engineered to smoke perfectly. It's entirely a matter of aerodynamics.

jpmcwjr:

That statement rules out quality of the briar at its first cutting, curing, aging, drying and workmanship throughout. I can't buy that!

Right, I was being a little hyperbolic.

I'm assuming everything is cured properly, though the definition of that is going to be as controversial as anything, but the flavour of the wood is mostly separate from the topic of this thread.

 

[sasquatch]

No idea how you could claim that the Algerian wood from 1920 is totally different than Algerian wood from today. Today's algerian smokes dry as bones and has a lightly spicey taste compared to Italian or Greek. Smoke it twice and it's indistingguishable imho.
Briar is harvested when the plant is between 30-50 years old, generally. Before 30, it's too small, after, its often cracked/dying/has bugs in it. This I am told by cutters. Therefore ALL briar you are making pipes from is "50 years old". Nothing has every been otherwise for anyone. Likewise, no one has ever had a 50 year surplus of briar waiting in a warehouse. These companies were making 300,000+ pipes a year in their heydays, and they stripped out the supply, which has subsequently grown back with a decline in demand.
The wood out of Algeria today is softer than some other sources, and yes, it's sandier/pittier. Alfred ostensibly was trying to make a harder pipe out of this wood, thus the oil cure. The end of the process was a goopy sticky hard shell of oil (hence the name) that had to be removed. Sandblasting was by necessity, and the results were a textured pipe with the cure Alfred wanted, allowing him to make use of the wood.
Read the patent here: various dunhill patents and see what you make of it, gang! Fun stuff.

 

[pitchfork]

The end of the process was a goopy sticky hard shell of oil (hence the name) that had to be removed. Sandblasting was by necessity, and the results were a textured pipe with the cure Alfred wanted, allowing him to make use of the wood.

Well, that's news to me! Fascinating stuff. Is that mentioned in the patents?

 

[pitchfork]

Wow! (Submitted 1918).

 

[pitchfork]

I guess Bill Taylor knew what he was doing after all (i.e. oil curing, then sand blasting).

 

[clickklick]

That's why this is a discussion. I speak of my own experience.
I'm not implying algerian needs to be oil cured and blasted to turn out nicely. I am not implying that the wood we currently have available hasn't been growing for 50 years or more. What I am stating is that the algerian I have heard so much about from the "good ol days" mimics NOTHING of my experience with it. I've been making pipes on the hobbyist level for a little over 1 year now, and have been a smoker and collector for 14 years, take that for what you will. I am no expert so if anyone has other information thank you for sharing.
I would default to sasquatch on this matter as he has much more experience than I do.
My experience with algerian is this, I bought about a dozen pieces from a reputable source, had to toss half of them as the fissures inside the block could not be sanded, blasted, or rusticated out and pretty much went through the full thickness of the block. Not saying an algerian pipe that comes from a good block wouldn't smoke really well, just doesn't seem to me that this highly praised algerian quality wood is what I can buy today.

 

[misterlowercase]

No idea how you could claim that the Algerian wood from 1920 is totally different than Algerian wood from today. Today's algerian smokes dry as bones and has a lightly spicey taste compared to Italian or Greek. Smoke it twice and it's indistingguishable imho.
Briar is harvested when the plant is between 30-50 years old, generally. Before 30, it's too small, after, its often cracked/dying/has bugs in it. This I am told by cutters. Therefore ALL briar you are making pipes from is "50 years old". Nothing has every been otherwise for anyone. Likewise, no one has ever had a 50 year surplus of briar waiting in a warehouse. These companies were making 300,000+ pipes a year in their heydays, and they stripped out the supply, which has subsequently grown back with a decline in demand.
The wood out of Algeria today is softer than some other sources, and yes, it's sandier/pittier. Alfred ostensibly was trying to make a harder pipe out of this wood, thus the oil cure. The end of the process was a goopy sticky hard shell of oil (hence the name) that had to be removed. Sandblasting was by necessity, and the results were a textured pipe with the cure Alfred wanted, allowing him to make use of the wood.
Read the patent here: various dunhill patents and see what you make of it, gang! Fun stuff.

Holy Shit!

:P
Many thanks Sasquatch for highlighting that particular detail, dammit, even though I've "studied" the docs, it had never clicked or sunk in, yes I'm dense with an impervious coating upon my brain, perhaps my mind needs a good sandblasting!
You are hereby awarded the PipesMagazine Sherlock Award for your scholarly contribution of great significance.

THANK YOU for adding that to the discussion!
-
Pitch,

and THANK YOU for reproducing the relevant part in cropped detail so my lazy ass didn't have to scour the dense writing and probably never find it --- so cool to see it right there in plain black and white!!!!
::

 

[sasquatch]

You're welcome Mr Lowercase, glad someone found it useful.
De-mythologizing pipes is a big part of my game, and one way to do it is to reduce speculation by finding old documents, video, methods, whatever. So many things which are total baloney (or at least unclear) have become part of our lore, you try to sort them out and it's almost impossible.
People get a pipe with a good stem and it's stamped "Algeria" and then they KNOW it was the briar. LOL. There's too many variables in all these things. I've tried and tried to nail it all down.... now I know I can't!

 

[zack24]

I have a few huge blocks of Algerian that I have carried all over the country for 35 years. It's hard as a rock and totally unusable for a good pipe...
When you're sorting through all the legends of the past, something to realize is that pipemakers 80 years ago needed an edge over the multitude of competition they faced...so if they were a little fast and loose with the truth about 100 year old briar or the wonders of oil curing, that's OK- today, we would call it marketing...
There are some significant differences depending on where the briar grows- I buy most of mine directly from Carlo Carlino in Calabria, Italy. It tends to be finer grain, fairly free from sand pits, and has a sweeter taste than some (not sure if that's due to his processing or the nature of the wood). Most of his production goes to Russia and Japan- very little in the US because he only speaks Italian. The downside is that his briar tends not to have outstanding ring grain in a blast because the annular rings are much closer.
He only dries it for 3 months after cutting and boiling- the rest of the drying happens in my shop. I usually dry for 2 years- a good rule of thumb is 1" per thickness per year. After that, it's at ambient moisture content and won't dry any more. If I drill a piece and it's too wet, it goes on the shelf for another couple of months...
The blast grade Mimmo briar I've been playing with since Chicago has much wider spacing on the rings. I just finished a pipe that had a really gnarly blast- but that was mainly because I used a microblaster to carve individual rings much deeper than a normal overall blast could achieve.
One thing I might have to try is steaming a stummel to raise the softer grain- don't know if it works, but if it worked for Ashton...

 

[jpmcwjr]

What a great thread! I guess one in a hundred we can learn from....Thanks to all.
I have seen recently where someone implied that greater density of the wood meant a lighter weight briar. It's just the opposite!

 

[tmb152]

There are some misconceptions here. I have briar pipes I've smoked since the early '70's which are not even 1% reduced in their ability to breathe! But breathability does not stop at transport of heat alone, it also relates to the wood's ability to transport moisture away from the smoke. The more volatile the agent, the greater the depth it will penetrate the briar, but of course, then it will also dissipate more quickly on its own through heat, evaporation, etc. The heavier tars and stuff are too quickly carbonized by the flame to penetrate very far, and are eventually removed as cake with the rest of the burned matter, and of course, over time, it is the nature of the wood that it builds up a natural barrier resisting further penetration by the residue of previous tobaccos and natural wood oils, but IMO, the one thing that most harms a wood is to put a hard shellac or sealer on the outside of the bowl. In my experience, it is best to keep the briar as open-pored as possible as the wood itself is a living, breathing thing, even in its crafted state.
Regards,
WayneG