I have several Petes that smoke all right. Not fabulous, but certainly acceptable. I keep two Pete bent apples in my car (and an Hungarian or two) as those are my preferred shapes while driving.
The Breathability Of Briar Wood - What Do You Think?
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I think there's more mystery to this subject. I am a fan of unfinished pipes; Savinelli as it happens makes the best priced versions, so I have them from one year to about forty years old. These do have an uncanny sense of "breathing," somehow seeming to have a free and easy flow "in, around and through" the briar, to borrow from an old Lucky Strike commercial. Okay for that. But I am also intrigued that several of my high gloss finish pipes are excellent smokers. They don't have that open breathing feel that the unfinished pipes have. It is as if the fire is more contained and controlled, but the delivery of smoke and taste is also excellent. So I don't think this is a good-bad, binary issue. Depending on the pipe, each is good in a slightly different and subtle way. For me, it's witchy but true.
And here's to another "voice from the past" post.
And here's to another "voice from the past" post.
I guess it could be a coincidence that all my poor smoking pipes just happen to have a shellac finish but I don't think it hurts to experiment and see what I find out. The Peterson in question never gets smoked regardless.
Any pipe you find that smokes poorly can be re-engineered to smoke perfectly. It's entirely a matter of aerodynamics.
I wish we had ceramic foam pipes, it would be infinitely superior, the reason we don't is entirely political and traditional. Many people can't use a pipe made of synthetic material because it could get them arrested, the use of Briar is basically enforced by law, not that it's written into law, but the use of other materials is by association prohibited.
Thank goodness for MacArthur and Mark Twain's love of Cobs, otherwise we probably wouldn't be able to use those either.
I wish we had ceramic foam pipes, it would be infinitely superior, the reason we don't is entirely political and traditional. Many people can't use a pipe made of synthetic material because it could get them arrested, the use of Briar is basically enforced by law, not that it's written into law, but the use of other materials is by association prohibited.
Thank goodness for MacArthur and Mark Twain's love of Cobs, otherwise we probably wouldn't be able to use those either.
Man, talk about esoterica! All this fascinating commentary led me to an experiment of my own. I hooked up my most smoked beloved pipe to my cardiac/respiratory monitor. Eureka!! It did not breathe at all! There was no heartbeat either! Then I heard someone yell, "he coded!" ZAP!!! No no no... not me, my pipe! ZAP!! Goddamit!! Not me, my pi... ZAP!! Will you please cut that out!! ZAP!! "Call the time... 1652." ///. Maybe now I'll get a big break on my health insurance... heh heh... jk
See the little dark ring around the hole being drilled in this picture? It's moisture being driven out of the block. This is a block that I've had in the shop for years, mind you. There is ALWAYS moisture in wood. It relates to the relative humidity in the environment, and you can measure blocks contracting and expanding all year round. It isn't much, but it's 20/1000ths of an inch over a month sometimes.
So I am in the "breathe" category, I think briar takes on moisture in moist environments, and I think that it probably bleeds some out when you heat it up, just as the block in the picture is doing (although maybe less dramatically).
Make a difference to how a pipe smokes if it's dipped in plastic or given the merest gossmer coating of shellac (which also is fairly permeable to moisture)? I doubt it.
That statement rules out quality of the briar at its first cutting, curing, aging, drying and workmanship throughout. I can't buy that!
So driving moisture out of wood when it is heated or tooled and spun means that it is able to "breathe"?
I am on the side of stating in its raw for maybe it breathes, but once you sand it to a very fine grit and finish it by staining, etc, there are no more "open" pores. But acclimating to humidity changes and breathing aren't really the same thing either.
And anyone that thinks that a little shellac coat prevents the pipe from smoking well would probably be surprised to learn just have many highly praised pipes actually have shellac.
I am on the side of stating in its raw for maybe it breathes, but once you sand it to a very fine grit and finish it by staining, etc, there are no more "open" pores. But acclimating to humidity changes and breathing aren't really the same thing either.
And anyone that thinks that a little shellac coat prevents the pipe from smoking well would probably be surprised to learn just have many highly praised pipes actually have shellac.
chart of permeability
just as an example, orange shellac shows up hardly at all in thin coat applications against vapor-based transference.... I used to have a really detailed chart with a bunch of finish testing on it, damned if I can find it.
Two things occur to me here: 1. "everyone knows" is pretty often wrong in woodworking and 2. most people have no idea what the difference between shellac, lacquer, varnish, acrylic, and urethane, and call them all "shellac".
just as an example, orange shellac shows up hardly at all in thin coat applications against vapor-based transference.... I used to have a really detailed chart with a bunch of finish testing on it, damned if I can find it.
Two things occur to me here: 1. "everyone knows" is pretty often wrong in woodworking and 2. most people have no idea what the difference between shellac, lacquer, varnish, acrylic, and urethane, and call them all "shellac".
"So driving moisture out of wood when it is heated or tooled and spun means that it is able to "breathe"?"
No idea what "breathing" is supposed to mean. Just showing that wood has moisture in it at all times, and that heat it up drives it out. Make of it what you will.
No idea what "breathing" is supposed to mean. Just showing that wood has moisture in it at all times, and that heat it up drives it out. Make of it what you will.
I do know the difference..
And if you are looking for a finish that is not dipped in plastic, shellac does quite well in multiple coats. The wood working I do is something I would like to consider "fine" and properly applied shellac is a lovely finish. And that doesn't count French Polishing.
For me, the problem with shellac is that the furniture requires a fair amount of care when in use. I never think about that in a pipe. But then I have no idea how many coats, or what the cut is, when it is used on a pipe.
And if you are looking for a finish that is not dipped in plastic, shellac does quite well in multiple coats. The wood working I do is something I would like to consider "fine" and properly applied shellac is a lovely finish. And that doesn't count French Polishing.
For me, the problem with shellac is that the furniture requires a fair amount of care when in use. I never think about that in a pipe. But then I have no idea how many coats, or what the cut is, when it is used on a pipe.
I think that's a good point.
Was your block air cured?
What about the old heat-assisted oil-curing techniques?
Like at Sasieni for example:
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/a-look-into-the-sasieni-oil-curing-method
Would such an intensive curing process greatly curtail moisture content to the point of non-existence?
Or is moisture (in whatever minute quantity) inevitable?
I'm an entomology enthusiast, so of course I love the stuff!
= )
Seriously though, I'm in the camp that says shellac doesn't impede any of the briars qualities, but I have noticed that some other kinds of coating do hinder performance.
.
EDIT.
That was a dumb question on my part, about the briar block shows what a rank amateur I am LOL
...but the question still goes for stummels after cutting...
That was a dumb question on my part, about the briar block
shows what a rank amateur I am LOL...but the question still goes for stummels after cutting...
I think the usual claims of "22.4% lighter after curing" are probably true - if you heat up a block you are going to drive the moisture out, and if you are mixing that with oil or some other "replacer" of stuff, maybe you can blast the water out and prevent it from working it's way back in from the atmosphere. I don't know what the long term effectiveness would be.
But I assume the claims of driving out "impurities" are baloney in such processes. I've never been able to extract anything from a properly boiled and dried block. The briar on the market these days is probably processed a hell of a lot better than it would have been 100 years ago, rendering further magic unnecessary (imho).
But I assume the claims of driving out "impurities" are baloney in such processes. I've never been able to extract anything from a properly boiled and dried block. The briar on the market these days is probably processed a hell of a lot better than it would have been 100 years ago, rendering further magic unnecessary (imho).
As for shellac on a pipe, very thin coat, spit-coat strength usually, and in most processes, it's basically ground/polished right back off the pipe. It's providing a reason for the stain to not come off the pipe, and doing a little flattening/filling, but not really making the "shine".
"Just exactly how porous is cake?" asked MLC at the start of this fascinating thread. I have come across cake as hard as granite and cake as soft as a rich tea biscuit. Therefore surely there are as many variables as to the porosity of cake as there are variables on the porosity of different cuts of briar.
Or am I missing something here?
Regards,
Jay.
Or am I missing something here?
Regards,
Jay.
Todd, that permeability chart is money! Thank you!
Also, trying to define "breathing" in wood, is pretty well subjective. Just always trying to further my understanding.
This discussion is an interesting one.
While we are on topic of oil curing. As Sas suggests, the wood we get today is much better processed that it was a long time ago. So the need to "oil cure" to remove all impurities, in my opinion, is not necessary. I'd argue it probably wasn't necessary in the first place. With that being said, as I understand it, it does impart a unique flavor during the first few smokes. Although after the briar is broken in, you probably couldn't tell an air cured pipe from an oil cured pipe. Although I believe oil curing does have a niche following and may attract a devoted fan base.
Also, trying to define "breathing" in wood, is pretty well subjective. Just always trying to further my understanding.
This discussion is an interesting one.
While we are on topic of oil curing. As Sas suggests, the wood we get today is much better processed that it was a long time ago. So the need to "oil cure" to remove all impurities, in my opinion, is not necessary. I'd argue it probably wasn't necessary in the first place. With that being said, as I understand it, it does impart a unique flavor during the first few smokes. Although after the briar is broken in, you probably couldn't tell an air cured pipe from an oil cured pipe. Although I believe oil curing does have a niche following and may attract a devoted fan base.
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