The Breathability Of Briar Wood - What Do You Think?

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May 31, 2012
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I think we can all pretty much agree on the "breathing" characteristics of briar, but what I want to ask here is about the pores - some say that over time from heavy smoking, the pores get clogged up and the pipe loses its ability to provide a good smoke - while others say that a well-kept pipe will last indefinitely and continue to provide a good smoke regardless of how many times its been smoked.
From my experience, I believe a pipe can last indefinitely. This belief is based solely on one pipe though, so it's far from any conclusive evidence on the subject. I have an old estate Royal Danish (Stanwell 2nd) that had the holy hell smoked out of it, rode real wet and put up hard - but amazingly, that things smokes sweeter than a dream every single time. There's no telling what it would look like if I sawed it in half to see what the wood looked like, but I don't think it really matters what the inner bowl wall wood looks like, it's still bringin' me the magic!
This is where we could talk about cake. Just exactly how porous is cake? Does cake affect the "breathability" of the wood? Does tar really get clogged in the pores? Or does each heating cycle act as a catalyst to "liquify" any tar from its solid state?
Fred Hanna writes:

"Briar may not be as permeable as some seem to think. Mark Tinsky once told me that he did an experiment with a few briar blocks to see how much moisture they would absorb. He immersed the air-cured blocks in water for several days and afterwards cut them open, only to reveal hardly any penetration at all. A friend once, in the heat of an argument over how much tobacco penetrates the briar to the outside walls of a pipe, determinedly cut one of his very darkened old pipes in half with a saw. The insides of the bowl walls were light and untouched by tobacco. on the other hand, some pipe makers have told me that the wood is indeed permeable, so I am not sure what to believe on this point."
Rick Newcombe writes:

"One other issue that needs to be addressed is the question of how long a briar pipe will last. Many American collectors answer that the pipes effectively will last forever -- because there is no way to smoke them so much that they stop functioning. But I think this is wrong.
Lars Ivarsson and Jess Chonowitsch, two of the greatest pipe makers in history, argue persuasively that the pores of the wood become clogged or totally "filled up" with repeated smoking. If you were to cut such a pipe bowl in half, they say, you would see instantly that there would be no way for the wood to "breathe". The inside of the wood would be totally darkened and charred."
Jan Zeman says this:

"The absorption quality of briar depends on its density. The hard, heavy block will absorb the moisture much slower then soft and light block would. This is best seen when we pipe makers apply the spirit based stain of dark color and it seeps or penetrate the wall of the bowl in seconds, and will show up as dark spots inside the tobacco chamber. Mind you in my opinion this is more of a case of extremely soft and loose grain rather then overall density of the block."
RD Field has a nice little write-up called What Makes A Good Briar Pipe, and says this:

"age - it is generally recognized that in order to have a superior smoking pipe the briar from which it is made must be at least fifty years old. It is only with age that the briar root becomes tight enough, dense enough to withstand both the heat of lighted tobacco and the juices produced during smoking for very long periods of time. Whereas the pores of less-aged briar tend to clog from absorption in a relatively short time the well-aged briar absorbs much less in a given smoke and so should last for decades if well-treated by the smoker."

http://www.rdfield.com/Articles/What%20Makes...,%20part%201.htm
And this from a tobacconist website:

"Superior Briar pipes do two things very well: They absorb heat and moisture from the combustion of tobacco. The microscopic pores in the wood expand and contract, although the wood is very densely grained. Not all briar pipes have porosity, and superior pipes are judged light in weight, regardless of the size of the bowl. I have seen, smoked and hefted very large pipes that were light as a feather. The reason: the best cured briar wood is free of bitter saps and resins, either cured out of the wood by the briar mill by boiling it out, by the pipe makers, either by curing in dry air for a few years, or by a gradual heat in a drying kiln, or by oil curing, all methods or combinations of said methods exuding the undesirable saps and resins out; resulting in a dry, porous, lightweight pipe."

http://www.outwesttobacco.com/Cool_Smoke.htm
"clogged pores" were also an issue for Dunhill:

In the early 1900's, Alfred Dunhill noticed that the pipes coming in from France were highly varnished and consequently clogged the pores of the briar. They were simply not doing justice to his creative blending.

Thus he opened his own pipe-making factory in 1910.

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/dunhill/history.cfm
GL Pease writes:

"As a pipe is smoked, the heating of the wood causes the small capillaries to open, and moisture, one of the byproducts of combustion, is wicked away into the pores of the wood. Briar, and indeed all wood, is more absorbent when warm than when cool."

http://glpease.com/BriarAndLeaf/?p=95
A really interesting short scientific study was done called "Characteristics of Briarwood" and included along with their findings are some fantastic images from a scanning electron microscope, they include pictures of the stem, the root and the burl (they call the burl a tumor) and you can clearly see the pores, the burl contains many more pores than either the stem or root.
They quote another study done by Cormio in 1944, where he describes the microscopic characteristics as "that the wood is diffuse-porous with small, numerous, solitary and fairly uniformly distributed pores (vessels)."
It's interesting to read, and the photomicrographs are really cool to see.
http://www.rmperkins.com/RMPerkins/Miscellaneous/CharacteristicsOfBriar.pdf
:

Anybody got 2¢ to throw in on the subject?

:

 

bigvan

Lifer
Mar 22, 2011
2,192
14
At the 2012 Chicago Pipe Show, there was a symposium of American pipe carvers; Mike Butera, Lee Von Erck, Jeff Gracik, Adam Davidson and Joe Nelson. During the Q&A, someone asked about pipe finishes and how they could impact the "breathability" of the wood. Mike said that in his experience, "briar don't breathe". And EVERY pipe maker on the dais agreed.

 
Aug 14, 2012
2,872
125
A good briar may be smoked forever. It does, however, become oversaturated after many years of smoking and requires more time to dry out between smokes.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,600
I have pipes that I bought new, both with sealed finish and unfinished, that are more than 30 years old.

They still smoke like well-broken in pipes with no problems. I don't smoke them to death, but it would

take you one look to see they are well smoked. I admit, with more than several pipes at hand, they do

dry out between smokes.

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,641
Chicago, IL
Several years ago Kevin and I had this discussion and I was in the "doesn't breathe" camp.

Eventually I worked up the nerve to sand off the finish of my two lacquered pipes. I have to admit they now smoke much better.

I don't know to what this should be attributed, but if you want to say that the pipes started breathing, I won't disagree.

BTW, Roth's surmise obtains in the case of both of these pipes -- the lacquer finishes concealed a number of fills.
Rattray's bulldog, before:

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Rattray's bulldog, after, with carnauba wax:

RattrayNewLeft.jpg

Butz-Choquin, before:

DSCN0434.jpg

Butz-Choquin, after, with carnauba wax:

ButzNewLeft.jpg


 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
"briar don't breathe". And EVERY pipe maker on the dais agreed.
Wow - I wouldn't have expected that answer.
I'm with numbersix, I didn't expect it either, so I guess I'll retract my opening statement,

LOL!
Maybe it's the terminology that's at issue?

To call it breathing?

Surely briar expands and contracts,

that's a fact of nature, no?
Briar is certainly not super-porous, like say how meerschaum is --- but a briar pipe goes under a similar coloring process over time and at a much slower rate, but it would seem to indicate porosity in the wood.
If the wood is porous, then it "breathes".
For example, it's said that bird's eye in a pipes grain exposes the interior "opening" in the "veins" of individual grains, aiding the dry time, being more "open" for moisture to flow through and escape, and doesn't retain heat like a straight-grain can, with all the "tubes" or "veins" or "pores" running vertically and tightly compacted...or not at all, I have no idea!
Is it even worth discussing?

 
Aug 1, 2012
4,872
5,670
USA
When heat is introduced to a porous material, the pores expand. That would of course make for some absorption but it would probably not penetrate far into the material for something relatively dense like briar. "Breathing" or not, here is my thought on pipe coatings. Lacquer or another sealer, depending on thickness and composition, will probably impede heat transfer and act as a bit of an insulator so I tend to get rid of any lacquer or clear coat on my pipes and it has, so far, been for the better.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,481
47,968
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I think that captainsousie has it correct. When I think of briar "breathing" it's about heat transfer. When Barling settled on Algerian briar they did so for its heat dispersion properties.

There is certainly a diversity of opinions about the characteristics of briar. In another thread on another, now largely defunct, forum I followed a discussion regarding the best age for heath to attain before being harvested. There's a fascination with the idea of "old wood", wood that is 100 years old or more, for which Barling pipes were famous. Yet Rainer Barbi scoffed at the notion, pointing out that the capillary structure of such old wood would make for poor heat dispersion. He believed that 35-50 years was an optimum age for harvesting briar root.

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
610
Unless "breathing" involves steam coming out of the outside of the bowl, it won't matter in terms of "heat transfer." It seems intuitive that glossy finishes would trap heat or whatever, but I've yet to see a coherent argument that would explain how that would work. In the case of sandblasted and rusticated pipes, it's no secret that shellac of some sort is used to give them that shiny look. Rad Davis uses it. Ashton also uses some kind of finish that "seals" the wood. Similarly, all those nice, glossy rusticated Italian pipes aren't shiny because of a bit of wax.
On the other hand, a smooth pipe with a glossy finish will certainly feel warmer to the hand than one without such a finish. Similarly, an all natural finish will feel cooler than a waxed one. I suspect that's because of more moisture being wicked away from the surface of the skin, not because of the inherent thermal conductivity of shellac vs. wax. Of course, I don't even know which is higher (maybe someone does).

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
61
This is one of the better topics to come along in a while - thanks to ML for bringing it up.
To my way of thinking, because wood expands and contracts, it is "breathable". But I am not a wood worker, so maybe this is the wrong word to use.
But we all know that even briar expands (otherwise we could remove our stems right after smoking). Sooo... I am very surprised that expert pipemakers say that briar is not breathable.
I worked up the nerve to sand off the finish of my two lacquered pipes. I have to admit they now smoke much better.
This is something I would expect - though in theory it shouldn't be the case if briar wasn't "breathable".
With all due respect to master carvers, I've always been one to question the "experts" and right now, I have to admit, I am on the fence on the entire subject.

 

pipingruotsi

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 6, 2013
238
0
I have a thought and I may be totally off base, here. I've never really studied the physics involved. However, it seems to me that once a briar pipe is broken in and developed a good cake, we are no longer smoking the briar, but the cake. So as long as the cake remains in serviceable condition, the briar is hardly effected at all. It just acts as a shell and heat sink. So as long as the cake is good and we keep the shank clean, I think a briar pipe will last indefinitely, practically speaking.

As far as breathing goes, of course briar breathes! All woods do, in fact almost everything breathes to some extent. Quantum physics (I think) has shown that the universe is basically made up of empty space, everything held together by gravitational forces. Some things just breathe less quickly. Putting a block of briar in water for a couple days is like taking a two minute bath. Your fingers don't even get pruny.

I think the reason briar is a great smoking wood is it's density. It can take the heat. Just imagine a highly breathable wood like balsa being made into a pipe. :lol:

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
61
Quantum physics (I think) has shown that the universe is basically made up of empty space, everything held together by gravitational forces.
Funny, but I was thinking the same thing.
No doubt briar is denser than other woods, which makes it an ideal material for a pipe - but that doesn't (in my mind) mean that it doesn't breathe at all. Still, I do respect the master carvers Bigvan mentioned, so for now I remain on the fence.

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
610
Six, yeah, it "breathes" in the sense that it is porous, but it doesn't breath fast enough to allow moist or heated air to come from the tobacco chamber through to the outside of the bowl. In other words, its porosity is not enough for the finish to have any affect on heat transfer during the course of a smoke. Maybe if you smoked it non-stop for several days, it would matter.

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
610
On the molecular level, varnish, shellac, etc. "breathe" as well. I'm not sure what that kind of breatheability or porosity has to do with heat transfer, though.

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
61
Six, yeah, it "breathes" in the sense that it is porous, but it doesn't breath fast enough to allow moist or heated air to come from the tobacco chamber through to the outside of the bowl.
This makes sense, but where I remain unsure is if this minute "breathability" (however small) affects a pipe's smoking qualities.
Lars Ivarsson and Jess Chonowitsch, two of the greatest pipe makers in history, argue persuasively that the pores of the wood become clogged or totally "filled up" with repeated smoking. If you were to cut such a pipe bowl in half, they say, you would see instantly that there would be no way for the wood to "breathe". The inside of the wood would be totally darkened and charred."
This makes more sense to me than saying briar simply doesn't breathe (or breathe's so little as to make no difference).
I have a few pipes where the briar is exceptionally light, and these pipes smoke noticeably better than my heavier (read: denser) bowls. These pipes routinely smoke to ash, where my more denser briars tend to have more dottle.
So I've always attributed this to breathability and porosity. Now I'll admit, I could be wrong, but that's my leaning so far.

 
Aug 1, 2012
4,872
5,670
USA
There has been an argument similar to this going on in the brass instrument community for decades. The argument centers around sound properties of bare brass vs that of silver plated, nickel plated and lacquered. The "experts" all disagree with several camps of people for each of the different scientific and perception differences. With all the scientific research, there is still no clear answer and I suspect the same will be true here for the next hundred years as well.
So, what are the exact heat conducting properties of briar root? Then, what effect does heat have in regards to the porosity of the material and its subsequent change in conductivity and absorbtion? Finally, what are the properties of the different coatings and their effect on the conductivity of the material in question, especially after the introduction of heat? Unless somebody here can find the research or is willing to do the scientific studies required we are all talking out of our arses. Be it Rad Davis or Joe Dumb*ss they know precisely jack and are just rendering an opinion. We all know what they say about opinions.

 
Aug 1, 2012
4,872
5,670
USA
Wow, on re-read that came across a bit pissier than intended. I'll let it stand though. The bottom line is to attempt to educate yourself on this complicated matter and make the best decision you can given the information. Remember though, any decision you make will still only be speculation.

 
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