I appreciate that sir, thank you.
I think I'm a bit overly sensitive about this subject after having the same discussion at my local cigar/pipe shop with a pair of Captain Black only smoker's who were less than sympathetic.
STG Enough Already, Chicken Little, Or What?
- Thread starter JoburgB2
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I think I'm a bit overly sensitive about this subject after having the same discussion at my local cigar/pipe shop with a pair of Captain Black only smoker's who were less than sympathetic.
You mean smoking Captain Black exclusively? I agree.Sounds terrifying.
Yeah I enjoy the occasional death-stick here and there (less than a pack per year now, just the rare treat) and I've bought a few packs of the Stokkebye RYO tobacco.. ones like the Turkish I think are essentially the same as their old no84 Turkish export pipe but just more of a cig cut.
In general it's nice to have "dual use" tobacco coming back...
@BriarLee has been extolling the virtues of Buoy lately and there are many who enjoy Daughters & Ryan both in a pipe and cig... ofc not all are created at the same level of quality but in general it's almost like history is beginning to repeat itself in a way...
Yeah I get that, having been through some companies' "business decisions" I understand it's unfortunate. I don't think anyone here was trying to minimize the loss of jobs and livelihood.
Maybe I don't qualify as part of the consumers you speak of, but more than half of my tobacco is from Watch City Cigar, which includes several of my favorites. As a result of all this STG business, it will just about all be unavailable. Some might get re-blended but almost everything I buy won't be. Is it a bummer? Yup, but for the price of a cup of coffee....
But he didn't make a point. He engaged in a logical fallacy, which was to say that because there are worse problems in the world then lesser problems are unimportant. We should always be free to to fix or talk about any problem that arises, big or small. THAT was @Pipe & a walk 's point. The OP's point? Stop discussion of a tobacco supply problem on a pipe smoking forum?
Edited to add: But IMHO you loose the debate when using language like "pathetic" or "disgusting" to shout down your opponent.
Wrong - the first part.
The so-called logical fallacy would suggest that because there is some worse problem it renders another problem irrelevant, cancels it out, suggests no further action or discussion is called for, something is right and something else is wrong by invoking some greater issue. Not what happened. It was not said that worries about a blend disappearing were unimportant, not at all. That concern was validated, empathy expressed for those affected. Pointing out there may be bigger issues out there is simply an opinion of perspective -- also 100% valid to possess and express. A suggestion to consider the significance of an issue in any context isn't what is meant by the "fallacy". And the OP didn't attempt to "stop" discussion, lol, he literally started it, with . . . an opinion. And plenty of context supplied as the thread as progressed. Classy move to issue an apology on one person's part (especially where one wasn't needed, called for or required, and nothing offensive at all about expressing an opinion and inviting comment). Hmmmm, seems like how a forum ought to work, not little guns blazing, worrying about who has the biggest fallacy, amping up rhetoric, taking after people you don't even take a minute to know, as you've rightly acknowledged.
It's pretty basic that you can't make interpersonal comparisons of utility - I may value a tin of Nanny's Shoe Aroma more highly than you may value your car. Doesn't mean someone's "wrong" and doesn't meant it shouldn't be able to be discussed without resort to personalizing the issue in a negative way.
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Cathartic as grieving may be there comes a point where it starts to resemble mental masturbation. Everyone is focused on the problem and no one is focused on solutions. Since this is a dead end approach it eventually becomes repetitive and not a little self defeating.
It's probably something in my make up that thinks all of this has become somehow weaker and self indulgent and I would have to own that events in my own life have pushed me in the direction of "a minute on the problem and two minutes on the solution".
Sure, I'm saddened for the loss, I was a big Sutliff booster here, I'm sorry for the loss of jobs, but as I'm someone who's been there, literally hundreds of time in a career that is project based, get on with finding other employment. Stability is a nice illusion, one I have never had the luxury in which to share.
If continued woe, rage and victimhood is cathartic, great. For me, it wears thin after a little while.
The OP had a legitimate point.
People will do what they do and the world will continue to spin, regardless, at least for the time being.
It's probably something in my make up that thinks all of this has become somehow weaker and self indulgent and I would have to own that events in my own life have pushed me in the direction of "a minute on the problem and two minutes on the solution".
Sure, I'm saddened for the loss, I was a big Sutliff booster here, I'm sorry for the loss of jobs, but as I'm someone who's been there, literally hundreds of time in a career that is project based, get on with finding other employment. Stability is a nice illusion, one I have never had the luxury in which to share.
If continued woe, rage and victimhood is cathartic, great. For me, it wears thin after a little while.
The OP had a legitimate point.
People will do what they do and the world will continue to spin, regardless, at least for the time being.
I agree that it’s saddening to lose Sutliff, but there are many other blends available and our hobby is a small and somewhat obscure one. I plan to just be happy with what exists for my time here.
I don’t think so, but thanks for asking. I just need a bowl of Virginia No. 1 and I should be okay.
Leonard came back for another interview on YouTube with Big Apple Pipes to answer one more simple question:
Why didn’t STG just sell a profitable Sutliff plant in Richmond to a third party to keep those 40 jobs?
His answer in short: that was just ”not part of the plan.”
Geez. So much for the nice guy facade. I mean, not even a thought about trying to keep the oldest pipe tobacco company in America open or perhaps allow the employees to start an ESOP at no cost (and little or no competition) to STG? I’m no bleeding heart, but the directors of the two Danish foundations that control STG should be ashamed of themselves.
(Please no lectures on capitalism. I’ve been a follower of Adam Smith since I got my first newspaper route 60 years ago.)
Why didn’t STG just sell a profitable Sutliff plant in Richmond to a third party to keep those 40 jobs?
His answer in short: that was just ”not part of the plan.”
Geez. So much for the nice guy facade. I mean, not even a thought about trying to keep the oldest pipe tobacco company in America open or perhaps allow the employees to start an ESOP at no cost (and little or no competition) to STG? I’m no bleeding heart, but the directors of the two Danish foundations that control STG should be ashamed of themselves.
(Please no lectures on capitalism. I’ve been a follower of Adam Smith since I got my first newspaper route 60 years ago.)
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For profit businesses aren't charities. When something doesn't line up with their objectives that something gets disappeared.
A little over 30 years ago, I co-founded a digital studio at Warner Bros, which became a new division. We started with 4 people and grew to about 140 over a three and a half year period.
During that period we were kept furiously busy working on a variety of feature projects, and high end commercials that featured WB IP's.
We created software as well, developing the toon shader that became part of Maya's rendering options, did pioneering work on stereoscopic 3D, producing the first all digital classically stereoscopic 3D Loony Tunes cartoon.
The group was firing on all cylinders. We weren't meant to be a profit center, but a way to reduce VFX costs on films by 20 to 30%. We met all of the metrics, exceeded some due to our software development, and were suddenly killed off because studio management decided that we no longer fit their new plans. 140 people instantly lost their jobs.
The division could have been sold. There were at least two very legitimate offers for the facility and staff. Warner said no. Had we continued and been successful away from Warner Bros it wouldn't have reflected well on the execs who had tried to kill us off, so better to make sure that there was no alternative.
Decisions get made and it's ultimately almost always about profitability. We make take it personally, but companies do not.
People way above Worzel made the decisions. He gave recommendations, knowing what their objectives were. Had he done anything differently it would have made no difference.
@smudgersmissingleg
I'd like to know how much thought was put into matching forum members with the ladies, based on looks...
I'd like to know how much thought was put into matching forum members with the ladies, based on looks...