Sometimes Ignorance is Bliss

[sablebrush52]

When I started smoking a pipe 15 years ago I smoked condor. I used to think it was a big beast of a tobacco.
I've given it it a rest for 12 years and bought a pouch the other day, now it seems utterly feeble and lacking in any nicotine at all.
Is it me, the baccy, both ? don't know.

It's now made in Poland. The main flavoring is kielbasa. So, not quite the same thing.

 

[sablebrush52]

It's a pretty broad swath of the brush to paint all declarations that a blend has changed on bad memory. I have old and new tins of Escudo, so I can and do verify my claim that it has changed. Does it matter?
I remember when the older smokers were in all a tizzy that Three Nuns was not anything like the original, and I think it hurt sales for them, but GOOD! A lot of smokers buy Escudo, Capstan, Balkan Sobranie to taste something that connects them to smokers of antiquity, but If only the name is the same, then it is all just a bait and switch.

Sure, it is easier to sell something with an old name on it :::cough cough WarHorse cough cough::: because the name is 90% of the marketing. It is way easier sell than to just start fresh with a new name. Guys will buy it just for that connection to antiquity.

Escudo was lucky enough to have been the premier VaPer for decades, maybe even a century, but then when new company buys and changes it, we should feel duped. It is no longer that iconoclastic blend that it was, and STG benefits with sales based off of the older better version.
What about Erinmore? It used to be a powerhouse nicotine head kick and the topping was much stronger in flavor. Now, it is the ultralight version of what it once was with barely any of the flavor, however people still buy it based on talk from before the change. The Astley blends... There are probably hundreds of posts I have made about how wonderful it was, but then the change hit, and the company gets to still benefit from all of those rave reviews? And, then there are older posters like cigrmaster who keeps suggesting it, because he only has the older versions, and may not be aware that the flavors have shifted dramatically.

Then there is GH&co, which drives me crazy, because from one day to the next the exact samely named tobacco changes flavors, because their just in there dumping stuff on it willy nilly... which makes discussing one of their blends like a madhouse... "No, it doesn't have rose geranium," "yes it does," "no it has almonds," Mine never tasted like almonds..." but who the hell knows, because we all may have something entirely different that we are reporting on. I just formally declare as of now that all GH&co tobacco tasting discussions are moot... and silly... till they get their act together and figure out what flavors go on what.

Changes just wreak chaos, in discussing tobaccos, and this is what we are here for, right? If it pisses in your corn flakes to have someone point these things out, then I say grow some thicker skin. Or, go find an echo chamber and pat each other on the back.

All very true and valid. Less tobacco is being grown, we hear about this all the time. Lots of growers have turned to more profitable crops, since all the the subsidies have been stopped. Harvesting methods have changed to be less concerned about quality and more concerned about efficiency.

Substitutions happen in blends because the last thing a company is going to do is retire a money maker. Occasionally something of good quality is made, usually in limited supply.

So, yes, what Cosmic says is absolutely true, a lot of time honored names exist as labels, not as blends. So when someone tries Escudo for the first time and wonders what all the hubbub is about, it's that they haven't actually smoked Escudo, just some Stokkebye sourced tobaccos labeled Escudo with a differently sourced Perique, what there is of it.

But it's also true that if you never experienced the real stuff, you don't know that what you're smoking isn't the real stuff. It's real to you and you either like it or don't.

So, yeah, the tobacco industry is plenty secretive and opaque and sails on like nothing is going on. It's their business and they're primarily in it to make bank, however they make it. The sell to the consumer is in the romance and blarney of tradition and history, which is largely bullshit, but appreciated bullshit.

 

[dctune]

All that really matters is whether or not you're enjoying what you're smoking right now.

This is such an incredibly simple truth. Maybe that very simplicity is why it’s so often set aside in favor of more complex musings and longings. Sometimes I feel like I’m searching for something I cannot find. Maybe that’s because I’ve already found it time and time again?

Well, this got deeper than I intended when I began the comment. And all because of a forum dedicated to burning dried leaves in a bowl-shapes block of wood. Life is interesting. Tobacco is good.

Happy piping, everyone.

 

[kcghost]

It's crime what a new blender does to a tobacco. Their first step is use the equipment and whatever flavoring they have that sorta kinda matches up with the blend. Then the accountants show up to evaluate the blend on whether they are making enough on the blend. And guess what? If they aren't they will see to it that the blend is changed. I've seen this happen dozens of times over the years to formerly good tobaccos.

 

[anotherbob]

The probabilities are that some blends decline, some improve, and some stay the same. And some of our memories are accurate, some are worse than remembered, and some are better. Remembering your younger years often is full of sunshine. Your senses were sharper; you were in better shape; your hopefulness was at its peak. Sometimes, if you work hard at it, you can discern how accurately you remember things, but there are usually factors that skew your feelings about the memories in a fairly strong way. In general, about something as specific and subjective as the quality of a tobacco blend, memory tends to be undependable.

I also think part of the nostalgia trip is that all the bad stuff doesn't seem so bad when you know the outcome. It's easy to forget how horrible it was when little miss cutie pipe broke your heart if you're happily in a long term relationship. You remember it but it just doesn't seem to so bad. Sure in the 1980's we had t o live with the knowledge that both Reagan and the Soviet had a button that could erase civilization and most of life but nothing came of it. I could go on. But I think that's part of the whole thing.

I have a friend from high school who use to say "if ignorance is bliss then I'm a happy m**** f****".

and that's so ignorant. The lucky bastard.

 

[anotherbob]

It's crime what a new blender does to a tobacco. Their first step is use the equipment and whatever flavoring they have that sorta kinda matches up with the blend. Then the accountants show up to evaluate the blend on whether they are making enough on the blend. And guess what? If they aren't they will see to it that the blend is changed. I've seen this happen dozens of times over the years to formerly good tobaccos.

I think most of these firms it's accountant. And honestly it's probably one of his duties. Have you seen how small most of these operations are?

 

[futureman]

It’s all about being present in the present. Those who live in the past, hold onto something that no longer exists. Those who look to the future, can’t grasp what has not been created. View attachment 130649

Is that Daniel Dennett?

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

Tonight's theme . . .

 

[Laurent]

Is that Daniel Dennett?

Looks to be.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Enjoy your crappy versions as I enjoy my far superior crappy versions.

 

[sablebrush52]

Reagan and the Soviet had a button that could erase civilization and most of life but nothing came of it

Just be happy he didn't confuse the red button with a cherry Jelly Belly.

 

[anotherbob]

Just be happy he didn't confuse the red button with a cherry Jelly Belly.

maybe that is what saved us. Maybe he ate the button.

 

[Irish Piper]

It's now made in Poland. The main flavoring is kielbasa. So, not quite the same thing.

And in a few weeks the main topping will be borsht... ?

 

[dunnyboy]

I'm impressed that so many pipe smokers can tell the difference between today's version of a blend and the one from yesteryear. Good on them! Yes they might be nostalgic for bygone blends but, on the other hand, how lucky to have such astute palates and intact memories!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm impressed that so many pipe smokers can tell the difference between today's version of a blend and the one from yesteryear. Good on them! Yes they might be nostalgic for bygone blends but, on the other hand, how lucky to have such astute palates and intact memories!

I am just as astonished sometimes that people don’t. I mean, why smoke so many blends is your not tasting and remembering flavor.
That said, easily we don’t have to 100% rely on memory when you can have both tins on hand to compare.

 

[dunnyboy]

I am just as astonished sometimes that people don’t. I mean, why smoke so many blends is your not tasting and remembering flavor.
That said, easily we don’t have to 100% rely on memory when you can have both tins on hand to compare.

You make an excellent point. I can taste a russet apple from today and know whether it tastes more or less the same as one from my childhood, and I can distinguish it from a mackintosh. I smoked a Romeo and Juliette Churchill one Christmas in the 70s whose incredible taste I've never quite been able to match but would instantly recognize. I have tobacco blends that I like better than others in the same genre, which must mean I can tell them apart.

Wines are probably the best example of what you're describing. All vintages from the same vineyard will be recognizable as such but will vary from year to year. And it's easier to assess the changes if you have several vintages on hand to compare rather than relying strictly on memory. I used to think my mother's cooking was great. Luckily, at the time, I didn't have anything to compare it to!

 

[Andriko]

With the as mentioned decline in tobacco farming, the quality is going to decline as the industry hangs on by a thread. I don't know what the old pipe tobacco blends tasted like, but I do remember what Gauloises used to be like and what they are like now (there is a decline), and I also remember that my mum's Rothmans did not stick the house out like modern cigarettes do - these changes all seemed to kick in around 2006-2010 as the war on smoking ramped up and the few remaining tobacco giants conglomerated.

The naive optimist in me likes to believe that as cigarette smoking declines, pipe and cigar tobaccos will become a niche luxury like rare whisky or fine wines, and suddenly the only (probably expensive) tobaccos around will all be high grade, specially cultivated stuff with listed vintages and teroirs like Burgundy, and the pipe smokers will laugh at us plebs for getting so gooped up for Penzance as they sip on their 2042 Vintage Straight Virginia Old Vine from Ma Smith's Garden Tobacco Farm.

 

[sandollars]

Human memory is a curious thing. Every time an old memory is accessed, it is modified. Over time, good memories become very strong, due to positive reinforcements.

Pipe smoking, particularly for long term pipe smokers is a very positive memory. This memory becomes increasingly stronger every time a pipe smoker fondly talks about the good old days. This is called Nostalgia.

We don’t know whether pipe tobacco of yesteryears were objectively better, because there is no way to compare. The memory of pipe smokers have been modified as well as the tobacco that exists from that day is also modified with age.

So the best course of action for current day smokers to enjoy what they have got. Best course of action for older pipe smokers is to fondly remember good old days. The lores of the good old days of tobacco also makes excellent topics for a fireside chat.

Thanks @cshubhra for so eloquently summarizing the point I was trying to make.

 

[sandollars]

shit might not be any pipe tobacco then anyway. ?‍️

I, got you Simmer. Just look me up..

 

[solideogloria86]

With the as mentioned decline in tobacco farming, the quality is going to decline as the industry hangs on by a thread. I don't know what the old pipe tobacco blends tasted like, but I do remember what Gauloises used to be like and what they are like now (there is a decline), and I also remember that my mum's Rothmans did not stick the house out like modern cigarettes do - these changes all seemed to kick in around 2006-2010 as the war on smoking ramped up and the few remaining tobacco giants conglomerated.

The naive optimist in me likes to believe that as cigarette smoking declines, pipe and cigar tobaccos will become a niche luxury like rare whisky or fine wines, and suddenly the only (probably expensive) tobaccos around will all be high grade, specially cultivated stuff with listed vintages and teroirs like Burgundy, and the pipe smokers will laugh at us plebs for getting so gooped up for Penzance as they sip on their 2042 Vintage Straight Virginia Old Vine from Ma Smith's Garden Tobacco Farm.

You're good at this. Keep it up!