Should PipesMagazine.com Start Charging a Subscription Fee?
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The question about charging a subscription was rhetorical, but I think it came off as serious to a lot of readers. I wanted to use it as sort of a wake up call that this stuff doesn't just magically happen all by itself.
People have ad blockers because there are a lot of annoying ads and crappy sites.
Most sites suck because of the low barrier to entry of putting up a site. Most people do not have the energy, skills, knowledge and experience to create a site that actually makes money.
They think it is easy and find out it is not.
It's probably safe to say that my site is the only informational site about pipes and tobacco that makes money.
Again, I was only being rhetorical to make a point.
I will NEVER charge a subscription for this site.
Thank you everybody for all of your comments and participation.
I thank you all for being here and helping make this site what it is.
And thanks Cortez for making me laugh as usual. (In your comments on the blog post).
Now, I leave you with just the first sentence and last sentence of my blog post:
1. HERE'S WHY YOU SHOULD TURN OFF YOUR AD BLOCKER
2. If you’re using an ad blocker, please turn it off before we block YOU.
People have ad blockers because there are a lot of annoying ads and crappy sites.
Most sites suck because of the low barrier to entry of putting up a site. Most people do not have the energy, skills, knowledge and experience to create a site that actually makes money.
They think it is easy and find out it is not.
It's probably safe to say that my site is the only informational site about pipes and tobacco that makes money.
Again, I was only being rhetorical to make a point.
I will NEVER charge a subscription for this site.
Thank you everybody for all of your comments and participation.
I thank you all for being here and helping make this site what it is.
And thanks Cortez for making me laugh as usual. (In your comments on the blog post).
Now, I leave you with just the first sentence and last sentence of my blog post:
1. HERE'S WHY YOU SHOULD TURN OFF YOUR AD BLOCKER
2. If you’re using an ad blocker, please turn it off before we block YOU.
Just so most of you know! I don't believe Kevin was being serious about charging!!!!!!!
Okay now that that is out of the way, my comment on your article was this...
Okay now that that is out of the way, my comment on your article was this...
Of course I would want Pipesmagazine.com to be free forever, because it is an amazing resource for those just starting out and I love the forums here. I have never felt more at home online than when I am on PM.com home page and forums. That being said I would be willing to pay for that feeling, but I have a feeling my opinion would be taken as biased. I believe if you ever had to start charging (which wont happen), some would stick around, but most would just turn to another free forum and not look back. Just my opinion which isn't worth the 2 cents its supposed to be worth.
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Kevin
I agree with bubba in that you are very selective in who you have advertising here. It isn't the usual "what is your IQ?" or some fly by night "Get a date with a supermondel" garbage that is out there flying around. It is very specific for a reason.
I see this site expanding as it has been for quite some time to come. I have seen a ton join since I joined up. With the number of members joining on a consistant basis, heck just look how many joined since this thread was started, you will get the usual number of onlookers and actual active members. Hopefully the active members will outnumber the leisurely onlookers and help in getting the ad revenue at a higher level for you to keep on giving quality content. If accessing the ads helps in getting more revenue for you, I am sure many of us would be more than happy to click a couple extra clicks on the mouse to come here first and get to the site that they want.
I agree with bubba in that you are very selective in who you have advertising here. It isn't the usual "what is your IQ?" or some fly by night "Get a date with a supermondel" garbage that is out there flying around. It is very specific for a reason.
I see this site expanding as it has been for quite some time to come. I have seen a ton join since I joined up. With the number of members joining on a consistant basis, heck just look how many joined since this thread was started, you will get the usual number of onlookers and actual active members. Hopefully the active members will outnumber the leisurely onlookers and help in getting the ad revenue at a higher level for you to keep on giving quality content. If accessing the ads helps in getting more revenue for you, I am sure many of us would be more than happy to click a couple extra clicks on the mouse to come here first and get to the site that they want.
I like the advertisers you have selected to be here. Because they're here I have started buying more from them. Much to my liking and, I am sure, to theirs.
If you find you have to charge a subscription fee in order to cover operating costs, I totally understand. It'll suck some, but that's how the world works sometimes.
If you find you have to charge a subscription fee in order to cover operating costs, I totally understand. It'll suck some, but that's how the world works sometimes.
@krgulick
As I was explaining above, we do not sell banner ads on a CPC basis. That is "Cost-Per-Click".
We do not do that.
Plus, I want things to be REAL here.
There are tons of scammers and spammers on the Internet. I will never be one of them.
Everything is legit here and I will never do anything to inflate the traffic numbers, the ad clicks or anything else.
Thanks for the thought, but that is moot.
As I was explaining above, we do not sell banner ads on a CPC basis. That is "Cost-Per-Click".
We do not do that.
Plus, I want things to be REAL here.
There are tons of scammers and spammers on the Internet. I will never be one of them.
Everything is legit here and I will never do anything to inflate the traffic numbers, the ad clicks or anything else.
I still stand with my statement that a member's charge is not out of line...
Another idea might be to make a voluntary contribution possible, for those who
feel better if they would help pay the rent. This is an option that is worth
considering, as it's no surprise that our hobby is under attack by those who
want to shut down the tobacco industry.
Another idea might be to make a voluntary contribution possible, for those who
feel better if they would help pay the rent. This is an option that is worth
considering, as it's no surprise that our hobby is under attack by those who
want to shut down the tobacco industry.
Ready yourselves, here's another two coppers being tossed into the ring:
On the one hand, Kevin, as the service provider, is legitimately concerned about needing click-throughs (the advertisers that pay $x.xx for every unique click on an ad impression) as well as overall site traffic (5,000 unique IPs visited / month = $x.xx amount of advertiser flat-fee charge) to continue to provide the service of this website. I support this wholeheartedly.
On the other hand, I, as the audience / consumer, despise the intrusive nature of most forms of internet advertising, and use an ad blocking plug-in on my browser.
This is very easy to solve.
One thing that has not been mentioned is that even with an ad blocker running, it is very easy to SELECTIVELY choose a site to allow ads on; in other words, you don't need to remember to turn it off when visiting this site, turning it on when leaving, getting confused and having an aneurism when those animated ads hijack your mouse, et cetera. Most (but perhaps not all) ad blockers have the option to "whitelist" a site--in other words, to allow a domain to run its regular advertising content. On my particular program I merely need to right-click an empty area of the page and choose "Don't run on this domain" to whitelist pipesmagazine.com. Your program may differ. You may need to make a selection in the program or browser preferences, or something else entirely; if you're able to navigate to this site in the first place you should be able to figure out how to do it on your browser. You can always search "whitelist domain {my ad block program}" for a complete walkthrough. As Kevin so rightly points out, the ads for this site are only ads that our type of folk would want to see anyway--so, my personal choice will be to whitelist this domain and make it a point to get a few clicks on adverts in every time I visit. Simple enough, considering how much time I spend plugged into the darn machine anyway. I also encourage others to invest the time and effort (seconds? perhaps a whole minute?) to do this as well.
Now, the second of my 2 cents' worth: it has also been very rightly pointed out that in the current paradigm of revenue, this site would likely collapse if you were to charge for something that could be gotten for free elsewhere. There was a famous parable drawn about a golden statue with feet of clay.... If the community moves away, so will the advertising, and it will be a sad day for the angels of the smoke. However, there are viable solutions to this: alter the paradigm. To create a tangible single-direction revenue stream (meaning how to charge for something), simply create something to charge *for*. Create content that can only be accessed by a subscriber. Provide perks for contributing--a hat for a $25 contribution or a pipe rack for $50, etc., say, or a deal with a pipe maker / retailer / tobacconist for a subscriber discount / gift certificate / freebie. Contests. The possibilities are myriad. In fact this thread has already started brainstorming just that. Kudos to us!
You see where I'm going with this--value is perception, as we all know from the prices we've paid for some of our treasures only to be told by the uninitiated, "You paid HOW much for a chunk of wood with a hole in it?!?!?"
Value and service can be created and maintained very easily, with just some patience, ingenuity, good intention and know-how. But the most valuable thing, THIS COMMUNITY, can be evaporated just as easily with the wrong moves. To that extent I very much applaud Kevin's first reaction--that he came to the community to express his viewpoint, and to ask for ours. And to everyone else for chiming in and maintaining support.
/deep breath/
Ok, I think I'm done with the soapbox now. Next!
On the one hand, Kevin, as the service provider, is legitimately concerned about needing click-throughs (the advertisers that pay $x.xx for every unique click on an ad impression) as well as overall site traffic (5,000 unique IPs visited / month = $x.xx amount of advertiser flat-fee charge) to continue to provide the service of this website. I support this wholeheartedly.
On the other hand, I, as the audience / consumer, despise the intrusive nature of most forms of internet advertising, and use an ad blocking plug-in on my browser.
This is very easy to solve.
One thing that has not been mentioned is that even with an ad blocker running, it is very easy to SELECTIVELY choose a site to allow ads on; in other words, you don't need to remember to turn it off when visiting this site, turning it on when leaving, getting confused and having an aneurism when those animated ads hijack your mouse, et cetera. Most (but perhaps not all) ad blockers have the option to "whitelist" a site--in other words, to allow a domain to run its regular advertising content. On my particular program I merely need to right-click an empty area of the page and choose "Don't run on this domain" to whitelist pipesmagazine.com. Your program may differ. You may need to make a selection in the program or browser preferences, or something else entirely; if you're able to navigate to this site in the first place you should be able to figure out how to do it on your browser. You can always search "whitelist domain {my ad block program}" for a complete walkthrough. As Kevin so rightly points out, the ads for this site are only ads that our type of folk would want to see anyway--so, my personal choice will be to whitelist this domain and make it a point to get a few clicks on adverts in every time I visit. Simple enough, considering how much time I spend plugged into the darn machine anyway. I also encourage others to invest the time and effort (seconds? perhaps a whole minute?) to do this as well.
Now, the second of my 2 cents' worth: it has also been very rightly pointed out that in the current paradigm of revenue, this site would likely collapse if you were to charge for something that could be gotten for free elsewhere. There was a famous parable drawn about a golden statue with feet of clay.... If the community moves away, so will the advertising, and it will be a sad day for the angels of the smoke. However, there are viable solutions to this: alter the paradigm. To create a tangible single-direction revenue stream (meaning how to charge for something), simply create something to charge *for*. Create content that can only be accessed by a subscriber. Provide perks for contributing--a hat for a $25 contribution or a pipe rack for $50, etc., say, or a deal with a pipe maker / retailer / tobacconist for a subscriber discount / gift certificate / freebie. Contests. The possibilities are myriad. In fact this thread has already started brainstorming just that. Kudos to us!
You see where I'm going with this--value is perception, as we all know from the prices we've paid for some of our treasures only to be told by the uninitiated, "You paid HOW much for a chunk of wood with a hole in it?!?!?"
Value and service can be created and maintained very easily, with just some patience, ingenuity, good intention and know-how. But the most valuable thing, THIS COMMUNITY, can be evaporated just as easily with the wrong moves. To that extent I very much applaud Kevin's first reaction--that he came to the community to express his viewpoint, and to ask for ours. And to everyone else for chiming in and maintaining support.
/deep breath/
Ok, I think I'm done with the soapbox now. Next!
Romeowood, you make all valid points and I agree with you, except on this one comment...
Kevin says...
So in reality he doesn't gain or lose anything by the number of clicks an ad gets!
Thank you bubba, I'll clarify:
Basically, I just wanted to let the readers know, without going into tons of detail, that there are two ways that the traffic to the site is looked at and quantified: one is the overall volume during a time period, and the other is by the active impression-response of clicking on an ad. There are others too, but for the sake of simplicity, those are the two easiest ways to look at it.
And, for what it's worth, that's the whole point of this system of measuring traffic--bumping up someone's metrics with a couple clicks here and there is *nothing* as far as the individual's time investment, but helps the host *tremendously* in the aggregate.
There are WAY too many acronyms in this day and age for any one of us to keep all of them straight, in other words
Basically, I just wanted to let the readers know, without going into tons of detail, that there are two ways that the traffic to the site is looked at and quantified: one is the overall volume during a time period, and the other is by the active impression-response of clicking on an ad. There are others too, but for the sake of simplicity, those are the two easiest ways to look at it.
And, for what it's worth, that's the whole point of this system of measuring traffic--bumping up someone's metrics with a couple clicks here and there is *nothing* as far as the individual's time investment, but helps the host *tremendously* in the aggregate.
Oh, and almost forgot to mention--when advertising DOES work (and let's face it, it does and we cannot escape that fact), those who advertise benefit with sales, those they advertise with benefit with repeated advertising revenue, and the customer benefits with the whole system being sustained.
:worship: Yay laissez-faire! :worship:
Now, I'm not saying it's without its flaws...I am saying there's a LOT of things that will change when I run the world though.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
:worship: Yay laissez-faire! :worship:
Now, I'm not saying it's without its flaws...I am saying there's a LOT of things that will change when I run the world though.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
To be honest when I first joined this site I didn't join for the forums. At the time I could care less about being apart of the forum and participating on this part of the site. I personally enjoyed the articles here and all the photo albums of places PM have visited. It wasn't till about 5 months later that I checked out the forums, found some cool people, and began posting. To me there are a hundred other forums around, but only one that that have interviews, coverage of events, pictures/videos, and a visually pleasing forums, and thats here.
Well noted, surfmac. Since I've recently re-joined the pipe, I did a lot of searching on 'teh Interwebs' for resources where I could find answers to my questions, advice, photos, and all the other trimmings and trappings. I found bits and pieces here and there, and unfortunately a couple really crappy forums. This is the place where it's all come together for me--everything under one roof, so to speak.
*AND* Pipe Babes! :!: 8O
*AND* Pipe Babes! :!: 8O
Good points Romeowood. My bias is that I've been involved with another Forum,
where there are no dues and the site relies entirely on contributions from it's
members. There are no advertisements by Sponsors. People can use the classifieds
to buy and sell, without charge. I started coming here as a result of cross posting
by others who belong to both Forums. I liked what I saw and still enjoy both the
company of people with a common interest and the information that gets published
in the articles in this Forum. Oddly enough, I've observed that people who give
support to help pay the rent do so because they enjoy it and typically participate
in the dialogue with an intent to teach as well as learn. Prizes, subscriber
discounts and benefit auctions are used successfully by other Pipe & Tobacco clubs &
organizations. Information attracts those who want to learn. It also attracts
Sponsors who recognize the business opportunity. Courting and retaining Sponsors
is hard work, with results that are sometimes volatile. Providing for financial
security of a resource, such as this one is a prudent effort. I don't think that
anyone around here is getting rich and likely the bottom line of profit is thin.
It doesn't hurt to provide alternative means of revenue in these changing times
and rough economy. One of the reasons that I enjoy visiting here is that there
are rules, Moderators and the understanding that divergent points of view are
necessary to avoid stagnation. There really aren't a lot of sites that can
demonstrate this type of community. I'd like to see it continue into the future.
where there are no dues and the site relies entirely on contributions from it's
members. There are no advertisements by Sponsors. People can use the classifieds
to buy and sell, without charge. I started coming here as a result of cross posting
by others who belong to both Forums. I liked what I saw and still enjoy both the
company of people with a common interest and the information that gets published
in the articles in this Forum. Oddly enough, I've observed that people who give
support to help pay the rent do so because they enjoy it and typically participate
in the dialogue with an intent to teach as well as learn. Prizes, subscriber
discounts and benefit auctions are used successfully by other Pipe & Tobacco clubs &
organizations. Information attracts those who want to learn. It also attracts
Sponsors who recognize the business opportunity. Courting and retaining Sponsors
is hard work, with results that are sometimes volatile. Providing for financial
security of a resource, such as this one is a prudent effort. I don't think that
anyone around here is getting rich and likely the bottom line of profit is thin.
It doesn't hurt to provide alternative means of revenue in these changing times
and rough economy. One of the reasons that I enjoy visiting here is that there
are rules, Moderators and the understanding that divergent points of view are
necessary to avoid stagnation. There really aren't a lot of sites that can
demonstrate this type of community. I'd like to see it continue into the future.
I would like to explain that I am with Fred on this one. I WOULD pay a subscription for this site just for all of the info I get from here and for the camaraderie. Also, being new to pipes and pipe tobacco, I wouldn't have known about ALL the other e-tailers out there (other than pipesandcigars.com) without the ads. As it stands, I ordered from Rich at 4noggins once so far and plan on buying from him again soon all because of the ads here. Ok. My two cent a spent.
-Jason
-Jason
I absolutely agree with Fred's post. The good spirit of the members here is why I come back. Unfortunately I have not encountered that on many forums. I've visited and posted on forums related to both pipes (no longer) and a few other subjects and have encountered some real jurks. I've seen things posted that, if there were said to my face, would result in someone getting hurt. None of that here... thank goodness!
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